New taxi rules

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poadeleted20

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The FAA has put out a new set of rules effective June 30 for the way controllers clear you to taxi. Here's a briefing I put together on the issue. Hope it helps.
 

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Thanks. I fly at a D-airport, with FBOs and hangars on both sides. Only one side of the rwy has a full-lenth taxiway. There have been cases of incursions when an aircraft is at the north end (normally R18), and has been told to "taxi R36". Pilot assumes OK to cross the runway (since it's usually called R18) in order to get to the full-length taxiway. Lately, though, the new taxi instructions, "taxi R36 via Bravo to Juliet", prevent that.

I think the new procedures will enforce the concept of "when in doubt, ASK!" May make more work for a controller, though, who is handling both ground and tower on a busy day.
 
Thanks Ron. Nice job.
 
Nice presentation. It really gives all the info. Thanks.
 
Matthew said:
Thanks. I fly at a D-airport, with FBOs and hangars on both sides. Only one side of the rwy has a full-lenth taxiway. There have been cases of incursions when an aircraft is at the north end (normally R18), and has been told to "taxi R36". Pilot assumes OK to cross the runway (since it's usually called R18) in order to get to the full-length taxiway. Lately, though, the new taxi instructions, "taxi R36 via Bravo to Juliet", prevent that.
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I remember last summer when they were working on the north end of Alpha, and us on the other side of the field had to cross to Bravo to get full length. Really weird doing that, for sure, but I never saw any incursions from that side of the runway.

Serious question for you though, do you guys over there use Juliet for intersection departures (for runway 36), or will they not allow you to do that? I always wondered why I've never seen that happen.
 
Ron Nice Job on the Power Point. Do I have your permission to forward it to pilot friends?
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
I remember last summer when they were working on the north end of Alpha, and us on the other side of the field had to cross to Bravo to get full length. Really weird doing that, for sure, but I never saw any incursions from that side of the runway.

Serious question for you though, do you guys over there use Juliet for intersection departures (for runway 36), or will they not allow you to do that? I always wondered why I've never seen that happen.
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That construction was a mess.

Most people on the east side do ask for full-length departure, then get cleared to cross wherever, usually at Juliet because they forget to ask for full length until they get there. I've seen interesction departures, but it's not very common. It's not that big a deal to cross over, go to the end of alpha and have a larger run-up area and a full length. Sometimes, though, taking of at Juliet does get you to the front of the line on a busy day. But I've never seen anybody do an intersection departure to the south.

Many years ago I almost had a head-on with someone on the west side. Very late at night, tower closed, I landed R18 and was getting ready to turn off the runway to the west on Juliet to Alpha. There was a Cessna 310 (I think), sitting there with his strobes off - ready to take off on R36. I started my turn, saw him, and was able to straighten back out and head to the end of the rwy as he took off behind me in the opposite direction. He never said a word on the radio. He blended into the lights while he was sitting there, and I didn't see him until I nearly turned into him.
 
Hmm, can't view it here at work it's not loading everything. I get a taxi diagram here and there, but lots of blank pages. I'll try again later at home.

Thanks for putting this together, it's always very helpful when someone takes the FAA info and makes it nice and easy to understand.
 
Matthew said:
Most people on the east side do ask for full-length departure, then get cleared to cross wherever, usually at Juliet because they forget to ask for full length until they get there. I've seen interesction departures, but it's not very common. It's not that big a deal to cross over, go to the end of alpha and have a larger run-up area and a full length. Sometimes, though, taking of at Juliet does get you to the front of the line on a busy day. But I've never seen anybody do an intersection departure to the south.
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Interesting you say that. I've done many intersection departures to the south, during that construction. With the north end of Alpha closed, the flight school moved the planes down to the FBO ramp. So, to get to 18 from West 2, you had to cross at Foxtrot. More often than not, I'd just ask to go from Foxtrot, as it cut time down a lot, and in either of the Diamonds, you don't need that runway.
 
Good stuff Ron. Thanks for putting it together.
 
AdamZ said:
Ron Nice Job on the Power Point. Do I have your permission to forward it to pilot friends?
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Sure -- as long as it's unaltered (hence the .pps format) and appropriate credit given. I submitted it to the FSDO to be used as a FAASTeam briefing, but after saying the content was fine, they've been screwing around with it for a month now for review/formatting. I gave up waiting and put a non-FAA sanitized version together, and that's what you've got. So, whatever you do, make sure folks know that what you're sending them is not an official FAA briefing, even if they later see it in FAA colors.
 
Rob Schaffer said:
Hmm, can't view it here at work it's not loading everything. I get a taxi diagram here and there, but lots of blank pages. I'll try again later at home.

Thanks for putting this together, it's always very helpful when someone takes the FAA info and makes it nice and easy to understand.
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me too. need to try another 'puter i 'spose.
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA has put out a new set of rules effective June 30 for the way controllers clear you to taxi. Here's a briefing I put together on the issue. Hope it helps.
Click to expand...

Wait - I don't see where this addresses the Jimmy Johns delivery guy delivering to the tower...
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Wait - I don't see where this addresses the Jimmy Johns delivery guy delivering to the tower...
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Dunno who/what "the Jimmy Johns delivery guy" is, but if you look closely in the referenced Notice, I think you'll see it applies to vehicles as well as aircraft. In any event, this was intended for pilots, not delivery guys. ;)
 
Thanks especially for using concrete examples - they made it very clear exactly what the new rule is intended to mitigate.
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA has put out a new set of rules effective June 30 for the way controllers clear you to taxi. Here's a briefing I put together on the issue. Hope it helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ron, that's great.

Now, is there an NPRM out already? Anyone got a link to it? I mentioned this at the flight school today and none of them had even heard of it and thought I was crazy.

Of course, Pete and I were cleared to "Position and Hold" last Friday...
 
Thanks Ron, this is the way the controllers at my field have always cleared aircaft to taxi. Makes it alot safer
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Thanks Ron, that's great.

Now, is there an NPRM out already? Anyone got a link to it? I mentioned this at the flight school today and none of them had even heard of it and thought I was crazy.

Of course, Pete and I were cleared to "Position and Hold" last Friday...
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There will not be a NPRM since this is a procedural change only.
 
I have read some of the things put out on this by the FAA and like all things the government does, they make it way too hard for ordinary folks to understand.

I suggest a two to three line simplification to explain the new rule.

Anything else, and you know pilots are going to screw this up, too.

Anyone want to try?
 
Everskyward said:
Pilots should not taxi onto or across any runways without specific clearance.

There, one line...
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But, to put it in FARease...

"No pilot shall taxi onto or cross any runway without specific clearance when a control tower is in operation."
 
flyingcheesehead said:
There's gotta be an NPRM 'cuz they're going to have to change 91.129(i) if they want it to work.
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Rulemaking process

The Administrative Procedures Act (APA) contains the requirements for creating regulations. The basic steps are as follows:

1. Proposal. FAA staff draft a proposed rule and usually conduct an internal review. (The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) drafts HazMat rules).
2. Office of the Secretary of Transportation (OST) review. The OST reviews rules that are determined to be significant.
3. Office of Management and Budget (OMB) review. OMB reviews proposed rules that are determined to be significant and circulates them to other interested Government agencies for comment. After the review, OMB can either return the rule to the Agency for revision or clear it for publishing.
4. Publication of proposed rule. The Agency provides broad public notice of its intended actions by publishing a notice of proposed rulemaking (NRPM) in the Federal Register.
5. Public comment. The Federal Register notice specifies a period for public comment that can range from 30 to 120 days or more, depending on the complexity of and interest in the proposed rule. The public is invited to submit their comments on the rule during this period, and comments are collected during the "rulemaking period."
6. Final rule. After the comment period closes, the Agency reviews the comments and prepares its final rule.
7. Publication. The rule is published in the CFR.
There are exceptions to following APA procedures (e.g., emergency regulations, Airworthiness Directives, changes in regulations that are procedural only).
The full text of general rulemaking procedures is available in 14 CFR Part 11
 
Rotor&Wing said:
There will not be a NPRM since this is a procedural change only.
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As stated in the Notice referenced in my briefing, "Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations, Part 91.129(i), will be changed after the completion of the rulemaking period." That suggests an NPRM has been issued, but I haven't searched the Federal Register to find it, and as of now, it's not on the NPRM list on the FAA's web site (http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/). As noted by R&W, if they treat this as a procedural change, they may just skip the NPRM and change the rule effective 30 June without further public action. However, it's not yet listed as a "Future Effective CFR," either, so maybe they're still doing their internal homework. In any event, the Notice makes clear that the regulation will change, just not how or when.

Either way, it shouldn't matter to pilots unless the controller screws up his/her end of the deal by omitting the hold short/cross instructions that 7110.65 will require him/her to issue. If they do their job right, the continued existence of the old wording in 91.129(i) won't matter, as you'll have specific instructions to cross or hold short as part of your taxi clearance.
 
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Let is not forget the ever popular Interim Final Rule and slightly less popular Direct Final Rule. Neither will surprise me as the change will already be implemented as a procedural change and there is a case to be made that prior comment is unnecessary.

for an excellent presentation about the rule making process check out:

http://www.reginfo.gov/public/reginfo/Regmap/regmap.pdf
 
Ron Levy said:
As stated in the Notice referenced in my briefing, "Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations, Part 91.129(i), will be changed after the completion of the rulemaking period." That suggests an NPRM has been issued, but I haven't searched the Federal Register to find it, and as of now, it's not on the NPRM list on the FAA's web site (http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/). As noted by R&W, if they treat this as a procedural change, they may just skip the NPRM and change the rule effective 30 June without further public action. However, it's not yet listed as a "Future Effective CFR," either, so maybe they're still doing their internal homework. In any event, the Notice makes clear that the regulation will change, just not how or when.
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You beat me to it by 4 mins.
 
How about, "Let's be careful out there!"
 
I am happy to see the rule change. It makes more sense, more intuitive, less prone to error. In fact, I think it's about time.

Re: being careful out there. On nothing less than my first solo my taxi clearance at a Class C almost resulted in a rwy incursion with a freight dog on short final. I was cleared to taxi to 29R which involved crossing 29L. I stopped short of 29L to explicitly ask if I was cleared to cross and TWR was short with me as they told me I was NOT cleared to cross 29L. My CFI and several other CFIs were monitoring the freq and all agreed I had not been previously told to hold short of 29L.

ATC has training towers and even if you think traffic is light, the guy in the twr may be up to his eyeballs in learning his duties, ie, prone to errors due to task saturation or something other.

Since then I have always been wary of crossing a runway, active or not. Like crossing a street one should always take a long look at both ends for traffic.
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA has put out a new set of rules effective June 30 for the way controllers clear you to taxi. Here's a briefing I put together on the issue. Hope it helps.
Click to expand...

They have finally corrected and clarified what I have felt was a confusing and dangerous policy--thanks for the summary and illustrative examples.
 
Ron, Good summary. Thanks
 
Thanks Ron, I was able to download and view at home with no problems. Good information and thanks for taking the time to address the issue and put it together for us.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Although, 29L was an active runway, so you would have had to hold short even in the absence of a hold short instruction.
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Previously you could cross any runway necessary to taxi to the runway you were instructed. You just couldn't taxi ON the runway you were heading to - UNLESS you were told otherwise.
 
Ron,

Could you give an example of how it would work if you had to cross multiple runways? It seems to me that if you had to taxi to a hypothetical runway 5 crossing equally hypothetical runways 11 and 18, the initial clearance would have to sound like this:

"Cessna 9837L, taxi runway 5 via Alpha, cross 18, hold short of 11, then Echo to Delta"

Or would he just not give the Echo and Delta instructions until after I'm cleared across 11? The rule explicitly prohibits him clearing me across 11 until after I've crossed 18 (assuming they're greater than 1000 feet apart).

Anyway, an example would be helpful.

Thanks.
 
bluesky74656 said:
Could you give an example of how it would work if you had to cross multiple runways? It seems to me that if you had to taxi to a hypothetical runway 5 crossing equally hypothetical runways 11 and 18, the initial clearance would have to sound like this:

"Cessna 9837L, taxi runway 5 via Alpha, cross 18, hold short of 11, then Echo to Delta"

Or would he just not give the Echo and Delta instructions until after I'm cleared across 11?
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As I understand it (and I could be wrong), initially, you would hear, "Cessna 9837L, taxi runway 5 via Alpha, Echo, and Delta, cross 18, hold short of 11." Then, after you cross 18, you would hear, "37L, cross 11." Any controllers who've had the training on the new rules, please correct me if I have it wrong.
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA has put out a new set of rules effective June 30 for the way controllers clear you to taxi. Here's a briefing I put together on the issue. Hope it helps.
Click to expand...
Very nice. And FWIW, the OpenOffice version of PPT (Impress) handled your slideshow just fine. You might consider adding a link to that or the free PPT viewer.
 
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