New Plane Checkout

loudbagel

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Hummingbird Saltalamacchia
A friend has offered to let me start flying his airplane, he is a private pilot and says that he can "give me a checkout" in his airplane. Im a private pilot who has only flown 172's , the plane in question is a 152. Are there any regulations that prevent him from checking me out in his airplane?

Thanks
 
You're authorized to fly single engine piston planes that aren't taildraggers, aren't complex, and aren't over 200hp since you're a private pilot. Unless his insurance requires a checkout (by a CFI) you'll be good to fly it when he's comfortable with you flying it.

The 152 will feel like a 172 with power steering on the controls, I have a feeling you'll like it ;)
 
You're authorized to fly single engine piston planes that aren't taildraggers, aren't complex, and aren't over 200hp since you're a private pilot. Unless his insurance requires a checkout (by a CFI) you'll be good to fly it when he's comfortable with you flying it.

The 152 will feel like a 172 with power steering on the controls, I have a feeling you'll like it ;)

Thank you for the speedy response!
 
It's FAA-legal for your pal to ride along with you and make his own decision as to whether he wants to let you fly his plane or not as long as your pal doesn't try to enter any training time in your logbook. Whether it's safe/smart or not is another story entirely, and impossible to answer without knowing both involved pilots' skills and experience.

Also, as mentioned above, whether it's OK with his insurance company is a question only his insurer can answer. You might also want to determine what insurance coverage you will need or is provided by your pal's policy before you get in that left seat even with your pal in the right seat.
 
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A friend /cfi offered to let me use his 152 without any checkout. I ended up dragging him alomg to do a few touch and goes. The comment above about a 172 with lighter controls os accurate.
 
A friend /cfi offered to let me use his 152 without any checkout.
Did your "friend" also offer to put you on his insurance policy as an additional insured (not just a "named pilot" or meeting the "open pilot waiver" clause)? If not, and you pranged his plane, you could be on the hook for the whole value of the plane plus any third party injury/damage resulting.
 
Two people can fit in a C152 at the same time? :)

my CFI told me that during his initial training, him and his CFI, in winter, couldn't close the door in a C152. Close one door, another one opens up. There's no way both of them were fitting in with their winter coats.
 
Me @ 200# and my (160#) CFI couldn't make the W&B balance work with a decent amount of fuel. IIRC we could do it with about 1hr on board.:loco:
 
Me @ 200# and my (160#) CFI couldn't make the W&B balance work with a decent amount of fuel. IIRC we could do it with about 1hr on board.:loco:

Me and my 200# friend had just enough fuel to get to the next airport, luckily that's were we were going :)
 
A friend has offered to let me start flying his airplane, he is a private pilot and says that he can "give me a checkout" in his airplane. Im a private pilot who has only flown 172's , the plane in question is a 152. Are there any regulations that prevent him from checking me out in his airplane?

Thanks

Nope, it's all good.
 
Did your "friend" also offer to put you on his insurance policy as an additional insured (not just a "named pilot" or meeting the "open pilot waiver" clause)? If not, and you pranged his plane, you could be on the hook for the whole value of the plane plus any third party injury/damage resulting.


He has an open waiver clause that covered anyone with a ppl. I also had renters insurance which covered the first $5000.
 
Nope, it's all good.
If Henning meant that there are no FAA regulations against this, I'd agree. But to say "it's all good" might be misconstrued to mean there are no safety or insurance issues, either, and as discussed above, there are several of those.
 
He has an open waiver clause that covered anyone with a ppl. I also had renters insurance which covered the first $5000.
His "open pilot waiver" clause does not cover anyone but him. It merely keeps his insurance in force while a pilot who meets those requirements flies the plane, and it provides no protection whatsoever for that other pilot. The only way his policy will provide anything for you is if you become an additional insured on his policy. Otherwise, if your non-owned policy provides only $5000 coverage, then if you prang his plane, his company will pay him the full value of the aircraft, and then subrogate against you for that full amount. Your insurance company will pay the first $5000 of that, but you will be on the hook personally for the rest.

And that doesn't even begin to address third party injury/damage -- do you have liability coverage on your non-owned policy as well as that $5000 hull coverage? If so, how much? If not, you could be on the hook personally for every penny for injuries to a passenger or damage to anything you hit.

FWIW, since I give training in a lot of other people's airplanes, and am generally acting as PIC when I do, I carry $75K hull and $1M liability on my non-owned/instructor policy.
 
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I train in a 150. I am 220 lbs, and my CFI is around 200.

Let's just say I never leave my airports airspace out the top :)
 
I train in a 150. I am 220 lbs, and my CFI is around 200.

Let's just say I never leave my airports airspace out the top :)
...or very far laterally, either, unless you're taking off with more fuel than max gross weight would likely allow with over 420 lb in the cabin.
 
...or very far laterally, either, unless you're taking off with more fuel than max gross weight would likely allow with over 420 lb in the cabin.

We usually take off with around 13 gallons, head to the training area that's about 7 miles away from the airport, and do everything between 3,500 and 2,000 feet. Come back and do touch and goes.

The longest I have been in the air at one time so far, is 1.3 hours. (on lesson 7).

We also have a 172 that I have been up in once. I suspect we will use that for cross countries.
 
He has an open waiver clause that covered anyone with a ppl. I also had renters insurance which covered the first $5000.
Ron is absolutely right with his comment. Unless he has a very unusual policy, the "open pilot warranty" is a promise by the owner to the insurance company that he will not allow someone with less than certain requirements to act as PIC of the airplane. Break the promise and the insurer doesn't have to pay a claim.

But the typical open pilot warranty provides exactly zero protection to the "borrowing" pilot. Unless the insurer specifically agrees to insure YOU, you're not protected and you might want to up that renters coverage you bought.
 
My little 150 impresses with over 400lbs to fill it with after the gas tanks are topped off. I have put a man in the right seat, a friend of mine, and he said he was about 220lbs. Man oh man did it take forever to get up there into the pattern. We only did one pattern and landing. He was not super tall so the yoke almost was restriced by his girth.

You "can" put two people in a C150 or C152 but trust me I notice a huge difference when it is just me.
 
Depends on the people, I CAN fit, but don't wanna.

Then again I scrape my head in some 172s
 
I did my first few lessons with in a 152 with my very small CFI.

We were right at max gross.

I needed to have the seat all the way down and all the way back, and a kneeboard was totally out of the question.

When the CFI got a bit nervous about summer winds, I transitioned to a 172. Nearly trivial transition -- the main difference is that the gauges are laid out a bit differently, especially the tachometer. So, I had to hunt for it to keep the engine from the redline for a bit.
 
I did my first few lessons with in a 152 with my very small CFI.

We were right at max gross.

I needed to have the seat all the way down and all the way back, and a kneeboard was totally out of the question.

When the CFI got a bit nervous about summer winds, I transitioned to a 172. Nearly trivial transition -- the main difference is that the gauges are laid out a bit differently, especially the tachometer. So, I had to hunt for it to keep the engine from the redline for a bit.
There are 152s with height adjustment in the seat?:confused::dunno:
 
A friend has offered to let me start flying his airplane, he is a private pilot and says that he can "give me a checkout" in his airplane. Im a private pilot who has only flown 172's , the plane in question is a 152. Are there any regulations that prevent him from checking me out in his airplane?

Thanks
Not AFAIK, but to add to the other advice... from experience I will advise you of two key differences between the 152 and 172: don't ever "chop and drop" it coming over the fence, and don't be sloppy turning base to final. 152s are very capable 2-seaters, and fun and easy to fly, but that wing is a bit less forgiving than the 172. A 152 won't glide, float, or forgive sloppy footwork the way a 172 will.
 
Wow, you're flying what has to be the best equipped 152 I've ever seen. In 20+ years of working on them and flying them, I have never seen the six way seat in one, cool.

Agreed, I don't think mine (either the 152 or 150) has even the gansta lean feature. The seats pretty much go back and forth, away from or towards the rudder pedals, and that's it. No adjustment whatsoever in any other direction.

When I fly my 172 rental with all the knobs and adjustments, it feels like a limo. I can crank the seat up so I can see over the nose, I can pull forward so I can reach the rudders, and I can gangsta lean back if I want to relax on a long cross country (but never do).
 
Agreed, I don't think mine (either the 152 or 150) has even the gansta lean feature. The seats pretty much go back and forth, away from or towards the rudder pedals, and that's it. No adjustment whatsoever in any other direction.

When I fly my 172 rental with all the knobs and adjustments, it feels like a limo. I can crank the seat up so I can see over the nose, I can pull forward so I can reach the rudders, and I can gangsta lean back if I want to relax on a long cross country (but never do).

Here's one for you to try in the 172...: get trimmed level in cruise flight, relax & kickoff your shoes...now scoot the seat way back so you can fly the yoke with your feet and retrim for your new level airspeed. When you quit climbing. The difference is the reduction in drag by getting your weight out of the downforce requirement of the tail, a downforce that needs to be compensated by the wing.
 
Here's one for you to try in the 172...: get trimmed level in cruise flight, relax & kickoff your shoes...now scoot the seat way back so you can fly the yoke with your feet and retrim for your new level airspeed. When you quit climbing. The difference is the reduction in drag by getting your weight out of the downforce requirement of the tail, a downforce that needs to be compensated by the wing.


:rofl:

Could be a good time too to practice recovering from unusual attitudes using your feet on the yoke only! You never know when you could be in that position, right?
 
Actually, an entry may be placed in the logbook as training, but the training cannot be used to document an FAA requirement.
You can put anything you want in your logbook, but the FAA can then use it as evidence of a violation of 14 CFR 61.51, and any prospective aviation employer would probably view it as evidence of lack of good judgement and a cavalier attitude towards official records, so it would probably be a really bad idea to do so.
 
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:rofl:

Could be a good time too to practice recovering from unusual attitudes using your feet on the yoke only! You never know when you could be in that position, right?

Seriously? There is a stringent AD on Cessnas over seats sliding back on take off and people hang on stalling and dying. So yeah. It's also why it is important to set your take off trim as accurately as you can for a comfortable climb. In a 172 I'd pick around 75 kts.
 
Here's one for you to try in the 172...: get trimmed level in cruise flight, relax & kickoff your shoes...now scoot the seat way back so you can fly the yoke with your feet and retrim for your new level airspeed. When you quit climbing. The difference is the reduction in drag by getting your weight out of the downforce requirement of the tail, a downforce that needs to be compensated by the wing.

Heh. I've never gone quite THAT far back, but I've slid the seats back in the 182 in cruise before. It's worth a couple of knots and I can stretch my legs out, or even stick them over on the passenger side. Quite comfy.
 
I'm not terribly comfy with touching the seat adjustment on a 172 while airborne, due to the seat rail AD. Even if it will give me a few knots.
 
Seriously? There is a stringent AD on Cessnas over seats sliding back on take off and people hang on stalling and dying. So yeah. It's also why it is important to set your take off trim as accurately as you can for a comfortable climb. In a 172 I'd pick around 75 kts.

Yes, my CFI did this to me in the Cessna (it always slid back but he yanked it without me knowing on takeoff).

No, I did not pull on the yoke but that was him trying to see if I would. They do slide around a lot. I do the "cessna wiggle" everytime I preflight / before engine start.
 
For anyone owning a Cessna there is a free inertia reel upgrade to stop the seat slide during take off. Ask your Cessna dealer for the free kit.
 
For anyone owning a Cessna there is a free inertia reel upgrade to stop the seat slide during take off. Ask your Cessna dealer for the free kit.

Free for the left seat, about $300 for the right. They originally were going to stop the free offer end of last year, but extended it. Limits their liability, I guess.

Can be installed at any Cessna Authorized Service center or your own mechanic with pre-approval.

Inertia reel bolts to the floor, seat belt style strap goes around the seat rail underneath, cable release gets added to the seat slide handle to release the inertia reel when you want to move the seat.

We keep forgetting to do it, but we also have rail slide stoppers. Might be nice to remove the rail stoppers if you trust the thing, for easier ingress/egress.
 
Inertia reel bolts to the floor, seat belt style strap goes around the seat rail underneath, cable release gets added to the seat slide handle to release the inertia reel when you want to move the seat.

you got that part basackwards, the strap bolts to the floor, and the reel is carried by the seat and is activated by the seat release handle.
 
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