flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I disagree... I'm lined up with the taxiway centerline, and I'm waiting for a takeoff clearance... "Taxi into position and hold" is much less ambiguous IMHO.
New Phraseology in Canada
- Thread starter Everskyward
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I disagree... I'm lined up with the taxiway centerline, and I'm waiting for a takeoff clearance... "Taxi into position and hold" is much less ambiguous IMHO.
K
KennyFlys
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Agreed!
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
its just what you are used to, thats all.
SkyHog
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
FWIW, when would ATC issue a Position instruction without and hold? That's what the limeys are probably saying.
Everskyward
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Exactly. "Position and hold" was probably a bit cryptic the first time you heard it too, even if you don't remember that.
Canadians also uses the term "decimal" instead of "point" when referring to a frequency (one-two-one-decimal-five instead of one-two-one-point-five), which is an ICAO standard too. Now let's hear people start complaining that the extra two syllables are entirely unnecessary and clutter up the airwaves.
Whatever you may thing of these things, if they are implemented in the US, the best thing to do is to get used to them because you are not going to change them. Besides, I'm sure there are bigger battles to fight.
Teller1900
En-Route
As long as I don't have to start saying "Check remarks" like out neighbors to the north (instead of "Roger"), I don't care .
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TMetzinger
Final Approach
They wouldn't. Position is not a standard phrase. Position and hold is.
But the ICAO says both "Line up" and "Line up and wait" are standards. I just want someone to tell me WTF I'm supposed to do if I am told to "Line up".
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
As long as I don't have to start saying "Check remarks" like out neighbors to the north (instead of "Roger"), I don't care
I'm beginning to understand why the Blue Cross/Blue Shield corporate pilot still called ATC with "triple four BAKER Charlie."
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Pull onto the runway and be glad that they now have enough frequency time to use "Daycimal" instead of "point."
But, IMO, that a little more than a small issue. I've heard many times that the U.S.A. has more aviation than the rest of the world combined. Why in the world do/should the majority change the way they do things without a clear and compelling safety related reason?
Not nearly as cryptic as "line up and wait." "Position and hold" is a recent change from "Taxi into position and hold" and many controllers were already shortening it to save valuable air time.
Speed
Pre-takeoff checklist
DEN, more than once "into position but keep it rolling be ready for an immediate". Then they clear you for takeoff when the jet in front is 3,000ft down the runway and likely hasn't called V1 yet (would happen to us on our takeoff too). I didn't think they could do that, but they do in the summers when it gets busy. We used to joke about what sort of carpet dance we would have to do if we aborted because the aircraft in front of us aborted... But I digress.
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I can handle (i.e. understand) "line up and wait". I have figured out 123 "decimal" 4. However, the official ICAO controllers south of the border are more than happy to speak in Spanish and those in Quebec are more than happy to speak French. THAT I don't understand. What's the ICAO convention's take on that stuff???
bstratt
Cleared for Takeoff
Can't speak for Mexico, but in Quebec if you establish contact in English they will respond in English.
What's more fun is flying the north side of the St. Lawrence corridor from Quebec City to Labrador. They don't have radar coverage so there is a self announce frequency with mandatory reporting points. You're flying along and suddenly some French pilot makes a report in French. Most of the time if you reply with a position report in English they will come back in English but not all the time.
What's more fun is flying the north side of the St. Lawrence corridor from Quebec City to Labrador. They don't have radar coverage so there is a self announce frequency with mandatory reporting points. You're flying along and suddenly some French pilot makes a report in French. Most of the time if you reply with a position report in English they will come back in English but not all the time.
Everskyward
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No kidding. For my second or third trip to Canada I went to Havre St. Pierre, Quebec which is an uncontrolled airport. The airplanes were self-announcing in French and I don't think I heard an English word spoken even after we started self-announcing in English.
ATC in Quebec will respond in English to English-speaking pilots as will ATC in Mexico. However they speak their own language when the pilots start off that way. Many places also have ATIS in both languages.
bstratt
Cleared for Takeoff
What were you doing there? I used that as one of my reporting points on my leg to St. Anthony, Nfld. Then on to Gander.
Did you have problems finding 100LL in Havre St. Pierre?
Everskyward
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We did a charter trip for a guy who, if I remember right, was going fishing. I think he also had friends in the area.
This was in a Lear 35 so we needed JetA which they did have. We checked in advance. Of course it was interesting trying to communicate with the guy at the FBO using the international sign for "top off"...