New Information On MH 370

Yeah right, the airliner goes slamming into the ocean from 37,000 and it's lying not he bottom in one piece in perfect planform?
 
flyingron said:
Yeah right, the airliner goes slamming into the ocean from 37,000 and it's lying not he bottom in one piece in perfect planform?
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If the pilot was alive when they ran out of fuel, he probably would have attempted a wheels up dead stick landing on the water. The weather was pretty rough at the time so it probably would have sunk pretty quickly, possibly intact.

Bu after all the false leads, i'm not putting any faith in this one until more evidence turns up though.
 
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If the pilot was not alive, the plane would have glided in wheels up at trimmed speed. If the computer was still functioning, then it would have pulled the nose up to maintain altitude until it slowed down, then glided in at that attitude which could theoretically ditch the plane straight ahead. If the sea conditions are cooperative, it does not seem outside the scope of possibility.
 
Henning said:
If the pilot was not alive, the plane would have glided in wheels up at trimmed speed. If the computer was still functioning, then it would have pulled the nose up to maintain altitude until it slowed down, then glided in at that attitude which could theoretically ditch the plane straight ahead. If the sea conditions are cooperative, it does not seem outside the scope of possibility.
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Seems easy enough to verify. I don't know about the depth. Should just take a little bit of time, and maybe a lot of money.

What are salvage laws on something like this?
 
Matthew said:
Seems easy enough to verify. I don't know about the depth. Should just take a little bit of time, and maybe a lot of money.

What are salvage laws on something like this?
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Henning can chime in. but....

I thought maritime salvage laws/ rights were the wreckage had to be manned 24/7 or it belongs to first come . first served...:dunno:
 
Matthew said:
Seems easy enough to verify. I don't know about the depth. Should just take a little bit of time, and maybe a lot of money.

What are salvage laws on something like this?
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Well, it's an interesting case, you can go out and find it and see what you can negotiate for the information, or if you can grab it and get it salvaged and secured, what you can negotiate for it. Since government navies are involved still, unless you have pre-negotiated your fee (not difficult to establish if you are willing to go 'no cure, no pay') with an interested party (airline, government, insurer, rich family member of a pax), there is nothing to prevent them from just taking it from you and telling you to **** off.
 
N801BH said:
Henning can chime in. but....

I thought maritime salvage laws/ rights were the wreckage had to be manned 24/7 or it belongs to first come . first served...:dunno:
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Not anymore, about a decade or so ago there was a major revision to salvage law.
 
Henning said:
Well, it's an interesting case, you can go out and find it and see what you can negotiate for the information, or if you can grab it and get it salvaged and secured, what you can negotiate for it. Since government navies are involved still, unless you have pre-negotiated your fee (not difficult to establish if you are willing to go 'no cure, no pay') with an interested party (airline, government, insurer, rich family member of a pax), there is nothing to prevent them from just taking it from you and telling you to **** off.
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Hmm. I wonder when the first "reward for information leading to the discovery of the final location of MH370" ads will be tacked to telephone poles.
 
Matthew said:
Just saw this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysi...ance-wreckage-of-a-commercial-airliner-found/
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This must be a scam or a fraud. There are already good write-ups about the outrageous claims made by this company. People who know this mineral exploration business say such technology simply doesn't exist. It makes you wonder how tiny electromagnetic waves can be detected through 15000 ft of water depth. Pressed for details they hide behind the secrecy. The company (its internet page is barely 1 year old) also makes some claims abut finding some shipwreck which apparently is all lies.
 
olasek said:
This must be a scam or a fraud. There are already good write-ups about the outrageous claims made by this company. People who know this mineral exploration business say such technology simply doesn't exist. It makes you wonder how tiny electromagnetic waves can be detected through 15000 ft of water depth. Pressed for details they hide behind the secrecy. The company (its internet page is barely 1 year old) also makes some claims abut finding some shipwreck which apparently is all lies.
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It would be somewhat believable if the pictures didn't just look like someone ran a blur kernel over the outline of whatever element they profess to have detected.

The minerals detection folks can do amazing stuff, but not that amazing.
 
They may very well be trolling for $$$.

Give us $$$ and we'll go back and search again to get a more accurate location. Hmm, we are almost there, just a little more $$$. Darn, sooo close, a little more $$$ ought to do it.
 
olasek said:
This must be a scam or a fraud. There are already good write-ups about the outrageous claims made by this company. People who know this mineral exploration business say such technology simply doesn't exist. It makes you wonder how tiny electromagnetic waves can be detected through 15000 ft of water depth. Pressed for details they hide behind the secrecy. The company (its internet page is barely 1 year old) also makes some claims abut finding some shipwreck which apparently is all lies.
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Yes, their so-called technology has to be a scam. There is no possible way to use remote imaging to distinguish trace metal elements in an object under the sea, as they claim to be doing.

The Australian company must be doing this as a publicity stunt.
 
NoHeat said:
Yes, their so-called technology has to be a scam. There is no possible way to use remote imaging to distinguish trace metal elements in an object under the sea, as they claim to be doing.

The Australian company must be doing this as a publicity stunt.
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A publicity stunt...... on the internet:idea:....
Never happens..:no:........:D
 
[email protected] said:
I rarely hear anybody use the word kernel in a mathematical image processing context. Out of curiosity, what's your background?
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Just stuck with me from some GNU image processing program I used to use.

Background is medical imaging.
 
Aside from being "old news" how does a catastrophic lithium-ion battery incident cause a widebody jet airliner to fly seven thousand miles in the opposite direction and run out of gas over the Indian Ocean? :dunno:
 
Silvaire said:
Aside from being "old news" how does a catastrophic lithium-ion battery incident cause a widebody jet airliner to fly seven thousand miles in the opposite direction and run out of gas over the Indian Ocean? :dunno:
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Fumes from a Lithiun -Ion battery fire in the cargo hold incapacitating the crew and passengers and killing all of them.:dunno::dunno:..

And, the fact remains...... there is ABSOLUTELY no proof the plane is in the Indian Ocean...:no::no:...
 
N801BH said:
And, the fact remains...... there is ABSOLUTELY no proof the plane is in the Indian Ocean
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And there is even 'less proof' that it isn't in the Indian Ocean. :idea:

Also the word 'proof' is hardly applicable, this is not mathematics, at the most we can talk about preponderance of evidence and the scale is significantly tipped that in fact it is in the Indian Ocean.
 
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Henning said:
If the pilot was not alive, the plane would have glided in wheels up at trimmed speed. If the computer was still functioning, then it would have pulled the nose up to maintain altitude until it slowed down, then glided in at that attitude which could theoretically ditch the plane straight ahead. If the sea conditions are cooperative, it does not seem outside the scope of possibility.
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What about the trip from the ocean surface to the floor? I understand ships hit the deep sea floor at quite a clip; wouldn't that same thing break an airplane apart?
 
nddons said:
What about the trip from the ocean surface to the floor? I understand ships hit the deep sea floor at quite a clip; wouldn't that same thing break an airplane apart?
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Not if it landed on a giant squid. How cool would a deep sea bigfoot the hijacker vs a noble giant squid battle be?:lol:
 
nddons said:
What about the trip from the ocean surface to the floor? I understand ships hit the deep sea floor at quite a clip; wouldn't that same thing break an airplane apart?
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That's an interesting thought: If the wings were still attached, how well and how far would it 'glide' underwater?
 
Matthew said:
That's an interesting thought: If the wings were still attached, how well and how far would it 'glide' underwater?
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Assuming it is trimmed for level flight, maybe it's still going.
 
Matthew said:
That's an interesting thought: If the wings were still attached, how well and how far would it 'glide' underwater?
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It probably wouldn't. It's effectively stalled after ditching, assuming it gets to zero speed across the water. When it starts to sink, it'd be in a deep stall with respect to the water and would have to somehow recover itself.

An Archer I've flown went to the bottom of Lake Michigan after a successful ditching. It "landed" on the lake floor with the nose straight down.
 
nddons said:
What about the trip from the ocean surface to the floor? I understand ships hit the deep sea floor at quite a clip; wouldn't that same thing break an airplane apart?
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I think it would. I recall reading that Titanic hit the floor with the speed of roughly 40-50 mph, not sure about 777's speed underwater, you would have to compare relative density (weight/volume) of aircraft versus Titanic - I suspect 777 built of aluminium has lesser density but I could be off. I guess it would hit the bottom at 20-30 mph, probably enough to cause fuselage buckling but perhaps not enough to split aircraft in half.
 
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nddons said:
What about the trip from the ocean surface to the floor? I understand ships hit the deep sea floor at quite a clip; wouldn't that same thing break an airplane apart?
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:dunno: Maybe, air is a fluid, water is a fluid, if it was intact it would potentially glide through the water column as well. Even if it did break upon impacting the bottom, it would be pretty tightly contained as deepwater shipwrecks typically are.
 
I'm guessing IF they find any parts or pieces on the bottom of the ocean, the rest will be fairly close by. ;) Even if it exploded when it hit the water, the parts and debris will be within a defined circle, with the expection of things that floated away. Even with the floating debris, they can figure an area to search based on the wind and tides.
If it's ever found, it will be based on luck as much as science.;)
Henning said:
:dunno: Maybe, air is a fluid, water is a fluid, if it was intact it would potentially glide through the water column as well. Even if it did break upon impacting the bottom, it would be pretty tightly contained as deepwater shipwrecks typically are.
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N747JB said:
I'm guessing IF they find any parts or pieces on the bottom of the ocean, the rest will be fairly close by. ;) Even if it exploded when it hit the water, the parts and debris will be within a defined circle, with the expection of things that floated away. Even with the floating debris, they can figure an area to search based on the wind and tides.
If it's ever found, it will be based on luck as much as science.;)
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I say.. WAY more luck then science....

As for the thoughts on whether the plane will glide under water.... Surely there are a few folks on POA that have model planes and can throw one in a swimming pool and give us the results.... Attaching a Go Pro to it will be even more fun...:yes:......
 
There is/was a weighted foam toy airplane for underwater 'gliding.' Never played with one so no idea how well it works or if just goes under the momentum of being thrown.
 
N801BH said:
...And, the fact remains...... there is ABSOLUTELY no proof the plane is in the Indian Ocean...:no::no:...
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Well there's the Immarsat data analysis, the amount of fuel on board and the FACT that there's nothing else out there other than The Indian Ocean.

Unless you're claiming that those guys are just full of it and have no idea what they are doing because I'm sure you know as much about that stuff as they do and you're not buying it, right? :rolleyes2:
 
I'm starting to think that letting morons ram airliners into sea walls is simpler than this. At least we know where the thing is and where the bodies are.
 
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