New ForeFlight update (V4.6 on 7/20/12)
- Thread starter MachFly
- Start date
ChrisK
En-Route
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
Does this require IOS 5.1? I don't have it on my IPhone yet, and I haven't tried to download this version on my IPad.
HPNPilot1200
En-Route
Seems to be a great update so far. The new route editor is pretty good.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yes. 5.1 required for this update.
ChrisK
En-Route
*cough* Naviator does it.
TangoWhiskey
Touchdown! Greaser!
I like the new editor, plus the ability to use the search field to identify a point without altering my route. Great for what ifs. The video is a great summary of the new features.
comanchepilot
En-Route
still no timer? Really? They have approach plates but no pop-up timer?
Inverted
Cleared for Takeoff
It still drives me nuts how settings and information such as favorite routes, aircraft etc. isn't saved as a profile that can be synced. I had to redownload the app and lost everything.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Maybe there's not much demand for it?
Are you talking about on the sectional? How far out should they go? Also, what use are they? I can understand a lot of requests, but this one baffles me. If you're going to do a pattern, you shouldn't be looking at the iPad in the pattern, nor should you need an extended runway centerline... If you're not going to do a pattern, how far out do you intercept one of these extended centerlines, and can't you do it visually just as easily? I can't imagine ever flying longer than a 5-mile final VFR (in fact, I doubt I'd ever bother with more than a 3-mile final VFR) and if you can't see the airport and line up with it visually at that point, shouldn't you be IFR?
ForeFlight is really good at making sure that when they add features, they're done right rather than simply done to check a box in a brochure. This is one that I still can't see a reason for. I'm willing to be enlightened though.
Can you post a screen shot?
JGoodish
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2006
- Messages
- 1,419
- Display Name
Display name:
JGoodish
ForeFlight is really good at making sure that when they add features, they're done right rather than simply done to check a box in a brochure. This is one that I still can't see a reason for. I'm willing to be enlightened though.
Can you post a screen shot?
WingX does the extended centerlines, and so does every Garmin unit I've ever used (though only when the airport is a route destination, which is fine). The extended centerlines are a HUGE help for runway situational awareness when approaching an unfamiliar airport.
The other problem is that the VFR sectionals (on everyone's product) aren't precisely accurate for airport, airspace, or navaid depiction. WingX works around this problem by drawing its own depictions based on precise location data, just as Garmin does with its handhelds.
I'm a sucker for well-designed and refined products, even if they don't have all of the latest and greatest features. However, ForeFlight is falling way behind as a navigator. WingX is poorly refined, but at least they have many of the "basic" navigation features common on GPS portable devices, and they (along with Garmin) seem to get that "bigger is better" when trying to modify programmed routes in flight. ForeFlight gets the customer service side, WingX, not so much. ForeFlight is much better for IFR routing, WingX, not so much. However, FF's lack of the navigation "basics" which I'm used to from years with Garmin units make it difficult for me to use FF for much beyond planning and charts.
JKG
ChrisK
En-Route
This is from my Galaxy S2 so your mileage etc..
ZeroPapaGolf
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2011
- Messages
- 647
- Display Name
Display name:
ZeroPapaGolf
MachFly
En-Route
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2011
- Messages
- 2,514
- Display Name
Display name:
MachFly
I wouldn't mind having that feature but while we don't have it what you can do is look up the a straight in approach plate (if there is one) and add a waypoint from it into your flight plan. This way you get an extended centerline.
Example:
KDVT KPRC HUMTY
Inverted
Cleared for Takeoff
The app wouldn't open after updating for some reason.
X3 Skier
En-Route
You can still use FF on early versions of the iOS but not the new features. When I asked FF support about that they told me they will continue to support the earlier versions but who knows how long.
Cheers
Maybe there's not much demand for it?
Also, what use are they? I can understand a lot of requests, but this one baffles me. If you're going to do a pattern, you shouldn't be looking at the iPad in the pattern, nor should you need an extended runway centerline... If you're not going to do a pattern, how far out do you intercept one of these extended centerlines, and can't you do it visually just as easily? I can't imagine ever flying longer than a 5-mile final VFR (in fact, I doubt I'd ever bother with more than a 3-mile final VFR) and if you can't see the airport and line up with it visually at that point, shouldn't you be IFR?
ForeFlight is really good at making sure that when they add features, they're done right rather than simply done to check a box in a brochure. This is one that I still can't see a reason for. I'm willing to be enlightened though.
Can you post a screen shot?
The guy after you got iy right. My 560 and 696 have them and really help me line up with pattern entry to unfamiliars on typical hazy south Texas days. How many times do you get the call to enter midfield for runway x at a new airport, without the airport in sight? Never I take it. WingX pro has them and lets you determine how long they are. That said, I dont like WingX pro's interface compared to FF. flew today with FF update and I do like what theyve added. It just seems odd that they have glossed over a widely used basic feature that is very helpful.
Last edited:
MachFly
En-Route
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2011
- Messages
- 2,514
- Display Name
Display name:
MachFly
I can understand that it can be helpful with trying to find the runway but how would an extended centerline help with entering midfield?
X3 Skier
En-Route
Be honest, which is the easier inbound orientation to Galveston at a glance?
Easier to position for the 45 from 10 out on a hazy day and unfamiliar ap.
I like it so I will send a note to the developers of FF. They seem to be pretty good about keeping ideas in the hopper for future versions. I usually call up the airport diagram on my "backup" iPod Touch to refresh my memory when getting close.
Cheers
TangoWhiskey
Touchdown! Greaser!
They go to that much trouble and then can't highlight the runway most aligned with the current surface winds and put the landing half of that runway in green?! It's amazing that VFR pilots get by without all this help.
That said, what I like most in this view is not the "extended runway centerlines" (though I'd more likely called it "enlarged runway view") but the runway NUMBERS more prominently displayed; if I'm told to enter right downwind for runway XX at an unfamiliar airport with multiple runways, I can see how this would aid with orientation approaching the airport.
Of course, I do that now by "drawing" the runway on my HSI or DG, mentally, and approaching that line at a 45. Same principle.
AND, they depict them all the same size / length, it appears, which could get some pilots in trouble if they took that literally.
Last edited:
N2124v
Line Up and Wait
There might be a liability issue that FF does not want to deal with. So far almost everything FF does is just aggregate data. By doing the extended center lines they are now creating data. Not sure, just a guess.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
Magnify feature:wink2:
JGoodish
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2006
- Messages
- 1,419
- Display Name
Display name:
JGoodish
They aren't creating data, they're just displaying the data that's there. Now, it is possible that the ForeFlight databases do not presently contain the runway coordinate data (they obviously have the airport coordinates), and without the runway data they can't display the centerlines. But they need to GET it if they want to keep up.
I have a suspicion that their target market is corporate and education, both of which likely value routing/planning/weather more than supplemental navigation in a handheld device. That seems to be the direction they're going with both their "partnerships" and their product. FF is a superior IFR information platform, in my opinion. However, for as simple as some of these basic navigation features are, you'd think they'd be able to knock them out and make everyone happy.
JKG
brentee
Pre-takeoff checklist
I like the highlighted Bravo as well.
MachFly
En-Route
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2011
- Messages
- 2,514
- Display Name
Display name:
MachFly
Be honest, which is the easier inbound orientation to Galveston at a glance?
Easier to position for the 45 from 10 out on a hazy day and unfamiliar ap.
I really like the VOR names and frequencies in large letters and the highlighter airspace. But I don't really like those extended centerlines.
When I'm flying to some airport I know what I can expect to see there, and I know what runway it will have. If I want an extended centerline I can make it as I showed on the previous page, but I really don't need an extended centerline for every runway of every airport on the screen. It just clutters up the screen.
I'm not going to say that it's a bad feature, because it's not, it's just not as necessarily as it may seem to be.
BTW what program is that with highlighter airspace?
Last edited:
Captain
Final Approach
I thought 'Seattle Avionics' was a company that charted the plates somehow to enable the gps overlay. Just a guess though, never really thought about it. I have the GPS on plates and the only difference I notice is my plates have a little blue airplane moving around while I shoot the approach.
MachFly
En-Route
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2011
- Messages
- 2,514
- Display Name
Display name:
MachFly
Would you day that it's worth the extra $150/year?
I did not have a GPS on my ipad only until about a week ago. I fly with a G1000 & SVT so I got plenty of information telling me what part of the approach I'm flying. If I'd be flying something with a G430 then I'm sure I'd get it, but in my case I'm having hard time justifying to myself that it's worth $150.
WingXPro 7
denverpilot
Tied Down
Like the new route editor, but it confused me for a bit that it didn't update the text route anymore. Then I typed a waypoint up there and saw how it will show you where it is and leave your plan alone. Nifty.
I don't think it should leave text in there at all anymore, really. It doesn't match your route you've edited in the route plan pane so it should just blank itself and await a typed waypoint.
Got to compare and contrast FF and WingX on the way out on co-owner's iPad. Some stuff is nicer on one than the other. I like the full page route setup on WingX. That's nice when not in the air. Easier to read than colored ovals.
But the colored ovals are a HUGE improvement over a raw text box that was too small to see much of the route in!
They both continue to get better. Kinda fun to have two iPads running with both.
Track up fans will want WingX, period. I'm not a big Track Up fan, but FF simply doesn't have it. My co-owner likes it.
Serious shoot out of software going on. Not really interested in Garmin the "also-ran" unless they come up with something spectacular. They ignored the iPad crowd (and price point) for years now and then decide to jump in to try to decimate the little guys?
Sorry... I'm not going to vote my dollars go to that kind of behavior in the aviation community. That's not as bad as the Software Company Who Shall Not Be Named who sued everyone over the magenta line on a map and destroyed multiple decent websites that were no competition them... but it's mildly anti-social of Garmin.
They get enough money for Certified stuff. I'll stick with companies and people where iPad wasn't an afterthought and who had an original passion to develop for it.
I don't think it should leave text in there at all anymore, really. It doesn't match your route you've edited in the route plan pane so it should just blank itself and await a typed waypoint.
Got to compare and contrast FF and WingX on the way out on co-owner's iPad. Some stuff is nicer on one than the other. I like the full page route setup on WingX. That's nice when not in the air. Easier to read than colored ovals.
But the colored ovals are a HUGE improvement over a raw text box that was too small to see much of the route in!
They both continue to get better. Kinda fun to have two iPads running with both.
Track up fans will want WingX, period. I'm not a big Track Up fan, but FF simply doesn't have it. My co-owner likes it.
Serious shoot out of software going on. Not really interested in Garmin the "also-ran" unless they come up with something spectacular. They ignored the iPad crowd (and price point) for years now and then decide to jump in to try to decimate the little guys?
Sorry... I'm not going to vote my dollars go to that kind of behavior in the aviation community. That's not as bad as the Software Company Who Shall Not Be Named who sued everyone over the magenta line on a map and destroyed multiple decent websites that were no competition them... but it's mildly anti-social of Garmin.
They get enough money for Certified stuff. I'll stick with companies and people where iPad wasn't an afterthought and who had an original passion to develop for it.
Mike I
Line Up and Wait
It's an extra $75 a year... $150 total subscription cost, instead of the standard $75 for the basic package.
TangoWhiskey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Nate, did you watch the video summary FF put together? It covered all that, and had a few tips that would be non-intuitive, like how to remove waypoints, reorder, add procedures, or view winds aloft.
Totally agree about David vs. Goliath.
Inverted
Cleared for Takeoff
That's what cleared things up for me as well.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Yeah, will when I get home. Wasn't enough time between release and departing for OSH to watch it. Way too tight with packing and work and all.
They do good videos so it'll be worth watching. And the changes were (as usual) intuitive enough that I survived using it for IFR under the hood most of the way here. So the details will be helpful later...
Did download the guide also, could be late-night tent reading. iPad 3 is a power sucking monster and recharging it for hours isn't happening here.
Plenty of places to do it, but who wants to sit in a camp chair at a recharge station when there's airplanes to see?
Winds aloft is WICKED cool.
Not doing that data the "hard way" led to one point where we had greater than 160 knots groundspeed on the way out.
Easy to see if being lower/hotter in the airplane is "worth it". Now if it'd allow a fuel burn/power settings table of data per aircraft... that'd be ultra wicked.
JGoodish
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2006
- Messages
- 1,419
- Display Name
Display name:
JGoodish
The extended centerlines are for situational awareness. If you have the ability to instinctively know exactly where the airport and runway alignments are even before you can see them, then that is a unique ability indeed. Most folks have to deduce or estimate prior to visual contact.
I do agree that displaying ALL of the centerlines, as WingX does, may be unnecessary clutter. WingX does let you turn them off, as well as adjust the length of the centerline extensions. Personally, I think that having the centerlines displayed is generally more beneficial than having no option to display them.
The airspace overlays are nice, and are more accuarate than the depicted location of airspace on the sectional.
WingX doesn't do so well with IFR routing. For example, there is NO support for SIDs and STARs in the route or route planning. If you want to add them, you must look at the chart and add the relevant waypoints manually to the route. You can pull up an approach chart and tap on a depicted waypoint to automatically add it to the route, but this method does not always work reliably, often displaying waypoints for inclusion in the route which are not on the approach plate. WingX does support victor airways, but you can't even enter them into the route until you have defined the entry and exit points or the airway. When you do get them entered, WingX will automatically populate the waypoints on the airway, but unlike ForeFlight, there is no option to show "turns only" along the route.
JKG
Jaybird180
Final Approach
Yeah, will when I get home. Wasn't enough time between release and departing for OSH to watch it. Way too tight with packing and work and all.
They do good videos so it'll be worth watching. And the changes were (as usual) intuitive enough that I survived using it for IFR under the hood most of the way here. So the details will be helpful later...
Did download the guide also, could be late-night tent reading. iPad 3 is a power sucking monster and recharging it for hours isn't happening here.
Plenty of places to do it, but who wants to sit in a camp chair at a recharge station when there's airplanes to see?
Winds aloft is WICKED cool.
Not doing that data the "hard way" led to one point where we had greater than 160 knots groundspeed on the way out.
Easy to see if being lower/hotter in the airplane is "worth it". Now if it'd allow a fuel burn/power settings table of data per aircraft... that'd be ultra wicked.
Mine came along with the update in the Documents section.