New Car Suggestions?

[HighFlyingA380]

I'm in the market for a new car, and looking for suggestions based on your experiences. I'm looking to pay under 20k.

Right now, the top of my list is a Honda Civic. While it's a bit smaller than I'd prefer, the price isn't bad and the maintenance track-record is quite good. It was my mechanics top choice.

Others on my watch-list include (in no particular order):
Hundai Sonata
Nissan Sentra
Nissan Altima
Honda Accord
Ford Fusion

 

[RJM62]

I like my Kia Soul a lot. It's a bit offbeat, but it grew on me very quickly. Great warranty too. Well worth a test drive IMHO.

Rich

 

[Zeldman]

Get a pilots car like a 'Vette or Ferrari.

not a girlie car....




yankin yore chain bud......

 

[Unit74]

Buy a used car. No sense in paying that first years depreciation.

 

[Hank S]

Accords and Altimas are good. Raise the Hyundai to Sonata (I used to have an Elantra--good car, but small, and our '11 Altima rides better with more space at the same or better mileage).

Buy a one-year-old car at the dealer with 10-15K miles, you'll save 20% or more and still have a good warranty. Never bought a new car, had the Altima for two years now, love it still.

 

[NoHeat]

The Mazda 3 has sportier handling than the Civic or Corolla, which are comparable in size. Its engine is efficient, too.

My teens drive one that is now four years old, and it has never required anything more than scheduled maintenance.

The reviews at edmunds.com are helpful, when picking a car.

 

[N747JB]

Drive them all, being a Ford guy, I am a little partial to the Fusion. If you can drive a used version of the model you are looking at it will give you a better idea of how they hold up vs new. Get them out on the road and put a few miles on each one, not a quick around the block test drive, get a feel for the performance and the road noise, some in this class are a lot louder than others! It's not something you always pick up on in a 3 minute drive. I encourage my customers to take them home, get a good feel for the car BEFORE they buy, it's too late after the paperwork is done and the title is sent to the state.

 

[frfly172]

I like the fully loaded Honda Accord. A year or two old.

 

[James331]

NEVER buy a new car, that's for suckers.

Subarus are great, much better engineering compared to Hondas and Toyotas.

If you're buying a GM product, you're looking at a big diesel truck, Vette or a camaro, rest is crap

Older 4.0 Jeep wranglers are great, Toyota is the top choice for a gas pickup.


I've had my C6 and TJ jeep (Both stick) for a few years now, great vehicles, never had a single problem, vette will cruise 90+ mph at near 30mpg.

Also had Subarus, always been great, never had a problem, currently my girl drives a forester, just be sure to use OEM parts and follow the OEM mx scheduel.. You would be surprised at how many dealers change it to what they "feel" it should be.

 

[FORANE]

NEVER buy a new car, that's for suckers.

Subarus are great, much better engineering compared to Hondas and Toyotas.

If you're buying a GM product, you're looking at a big diesel truck, Vette or a camaro, rest is crap

Older 4.0 Jeep wranglers are great, Toyota is the top choice for a gas pickup.

Agree with about everything said here.

Never buy a new car.

We own 2 Subaru Outbacks and love them but we live where we get some snow and ice. OP didn't state where he lives / drives but if it includes slick roads, the Subarus are awesome. The H6 motor is best. Our next daily drivers will again be Subaru Outbacks.

I also own a Chevy duramax 3500 quad cab 4x4 which is great when we need a truck / tow vehicle but the MPG is around 10.

Having owned a few gas Toyota pickups and had great experience with them, I would get another if I were looking for a gas truck.

 

[Henning]

I'm in the market for a new car, and looking for suggestions based on your experiences. I'm looking to pay under 20k.

Right now, the top of my list is a Honda Civic. While it's a bit smaller than I'd prefer, the price isn't bad and the maintenance track-record is quite good. It was my mechanics top choice.

Others on my watch-list include (in no particular order):
Hundai Sonata
Nissan Sentra
Nissan Altima
Honda Accord
Ford Fusion

I would say between the Honda Civic and Accord. The Accord gives up some economy, but is considerably more comfortable if you do more than around town short hauls.

 

[SomeTexan]

I also own a Chevy duramax 3500 quad cab 4x4 which is great when we need a truck / tow vehicle but the MPG is around 10.

Good god what is wrong with it? I've only owned one Duramax, but it got 17ish average empty, and 14 towing 8,000 lbs. Friends that own newer models claim low to mid 20's empty. I would be checking for injector problems or maybe a wastegate issue.

 

[FORANE]

Good god what is wrong with it? I've only owned one Duramax, but it got 17ish average empty, and 14 towing 8,000 lbs. Friends that own newer models claim low to mid 20's empty. I would be checking for injector problems or maybe a wastegate issue.

It had 200k miles and a blown motor when I bought it. I put a Duramax out of a topkick truck in it. The topkicks have a larger and rebuildable turbo, larger intake and increased injector flow if I am not mistaken. This means an additional 150 ft lbs of torque or so I hear. It has plenty of power; we call it the beast. Even though this isn't the stock motor, I have heard of many others with the same MPG's for year model. Mine is a 2005 and if you check Fuelly.com you will find others have reported similar for year / model.

I have heard of some with newer trucks that claim the MPG's you stated. I am envious.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Buying a Hyundai is like buying the best disposable camera on the market.

If you have to buy new (don't), go for the Honda Civic.

Don't buy American unless you feel you need a truck.

 

[pj500]

I'm in the market for a new car, and looking for suggestions based on your experiences. I'm looking to pay under 20k.

Right now, the top of my list is a Honda Civic. While it's a bit smaller than I'd prefer, the price isn't bad and the maintenance track-record is quite good. It was my mechanics top choice.

Others on my watch-list include (in no particular order):
Hundai Sonata
Nissan Sentra
Nissan Altima
Honda Accord
Ford Fusion

Ford Fusion.

Noise harmonics vibration (NHV), Ride quality, and fit and finish of build quality are important to me. I'm not going to keep it past 150k miles either.

Nothing on that list meets these requirements. Hynduai gets the price award, Honda gets the reliability, and the Nissan has some nice features and power but not in the <20k base model -- it's strickly fleet vehicle territory.

A Altima is nice, but the base model is too stripped quality wise and features to get to your price point.

That leaves the accord as the other option. The "quality" is there, it will last longer than the rest, but lots of hard plastics and a fairly harsh suspension when it comes to ride quality. I can't stand the ride quality.

So, for the base, stripped model (<$20k) price point winner of a full size sedan, I'd take the fusion off the rent a car lot any day before the others.

Ford makes some things that suck (Focus comes to mind), but the fusion is a real winner.

Having rented over 200 car days in the last 4 years, I've driven just about anything.

 

[JB1842]

Wife has a fusion. Got it for 12K with only 16,000 miles on it. Have had it for a little over a year. Great car.

 

[SomeTexan]

It had 200k miles and a blown motor when I bought it. I put a Duramax out of a topkick truck in it. The topkicks have a larger and rebuildable turbo, larger intake and increased injector flow if I am not mistaken. This means an additional 150 ft lbs of torque or so I hear. It has plenty of power; we call it the beast. Even though this isn't the stock motor, I have heard of many others with the same MPG's for year model. Mine is a 2005 and if you check Fuelly.com you will find others have reported similar for year / model.

I have heard of some with newer trucks that claim the MPG's you stated. I am envious.

Ah, that makes sense. The bigger turbo does better with a larger, better flowing exhaust. Also, someone familiar with diesel tuning can use EFIlive and improve the tuning, and add a few mpg's. Was the computer swapped or retuned for the topkick engine? The tunes are a little different between the two and may be costing you a little too.

On topic, any of the cars mentioned are worthwhile vehicles. I don't know if they for your price range, but the VW TDI's are great cars as well.

 

[Neal Howard]

Used Audi A4 Quattro. I love my 1998. It drives like a life sized Hot Wheels car on rails. Laughs at ice covered roads and sticks to dry pavement like hot bubblegum in the summertime. They do require their scheduled maintenance though, but if you take care of them they'll last forever.

 

[James331]

Used Audi A4 Quattro. I love my 1998. It drives like a life sized Hot Wheels car on rails. Laughs at ice covered roads and sticks to dry pavement like hot bubblegum in the summertime. They do require their scheduled maintenance though, but if you take care of them they'll last forever.

Until something breaks, and it will. Audi (VW), MB, Rover and BMW are cars you don't keep past the bumper to bumper.

Id stay away from Ford products, shy if of the GT, they are soft cars and don't stand up to time like Subaru, Honda, Toyota, Vette, etc.

 

[TheTraveler]

Used Audi A4 Quattro. I love my 1998. It drives like a life sized Hot Wheels car on rails. Laughs at ice covered roads and sticks to dry pavement like hot bubblegum in the summertime. They do require their scheduled maintenance though, but if you take care of them they'll last forever.

Agreed! I had a '99 A4. I put almost 200,000 miles on it, and then upgraded to an S4 that I still have. They have been some of the best, reliable, least expensive, funnest cars I have ever owned.

 

[Alexb2000]

I'm in the market for a new car, and looking for suggestions based on your experiences. I'm looking to pay under 20k.

Right now, the top of my list is a Honda Civic. While it's a bit smaller than I'd prefer, the price isn't bad and the maintenance track-record is quite good. It was my mechanics top choice.

Others on my watch-list include (in no particular order):
Hundai Sonata
Nissan Sentra
Nissan Altima
Honda Accord
Ford Fusion

Honda Civic has also been the number one car for resale value for years.

If the civic isn't large enough I would consider the Sonata or Accord.

I like that you asked your mechanic, working on these things sure lets you see what's behind the marketing, good call.

As far as new vs. used I like to evaluate the deals.

When I bought my $50K Denali they offered .9% for 4 years on a year end deal sticker was $60K.
Earning 6% on my invested money means that $50K earns $3K per year or $13K over 4
The new loan will cost me $924 over 4 years
So I make a net $12K over the 4 year loan keeping my money invested
Payment is $1000

There was about $10K in price difference vs. a two year old version with about 30K miles. Used was $40K with a loan rate of 4%.
Still earning 6% on my $50K budget I get the same $13K over 4
The used loan $40K at 4% would cost me $3,350 over 4 years
So I make $9.7K over four years keeping my money invested.
Payment is $900

So for an extra hundred a month I can drive a two year newer car. I also earn an extra $3.3K on my investment so the real delta is $1500 over the 4 year term. For that $1500 I get the free maintenance, year of XM, newer tires, 3 years of full warranty, etc.
The new car was a better deal no question.

I guess I could have skipped all that and just said used cars are for suckers!

Excel is your friend when looking at cars. Make sure and check the used prices for residual as well.

 

[Neal Howard]

Agreed! I had a '99 A4. I put almost 200,000 miles on it, and then upgraded to an S4 that I still have. They have been some of the best, reliable, least expensive, funnest cars I have ever owned.

I got mine 3 years ago for a song... it only had 75K on the odo and it's about to hit 100K now. If you maintain them with the same mindset as maintaining an airplane... replace worn parts before they fail, these can be very reliable cars. There are lots of places on the Internet where you can buy parts for a fraction of the cost of dealership OEM parts too. The way these cars feel to drive is unparalleled compared to your average small sedans of other brands. Mine has the 30 valve 2.8L V6 dohc hemi and a 5 speed manual trans and this drive train seems indestructible.

 

[TheTraveler]

I got mine 3 years ago for a song... it only had 75K on the odo and it's about to hit 100K now. If you maintain them with the same mindset as maintaining an airplane... replace worn parts before they fail, these can be very reliable cars. There are lots of places on the Internet where you can buy parts for a fraction of the cost of dealership OEM parts too. The way these cars feel to drive is unparalleled compared to your average small sedans of other brands. Mine has the 30 valve 2.8L V6 dohc hemi and a 5 speed manual trans and this drive train seems indestructible.

Couldn't agree more. I do pay up for oil changes at the dealer, but I like how they let me know if something is coming up. If I fix it myself or pay them to do it, there's no pressure which is nice. The after sales service and attention I've received from Audi is far beyond what I had ever experienced with any other brand, domestic or imported. I had a 2.8l V6 in my A4. I've got the 4.2l V8 in the S4. A guy put his Mustang off the road once chasing me through the hills just north of Helen, GA.

 

[MtnMarcus]

Agreed! I had a '99 A4. I put almost 200,000 miles on it, and then upgraded to an S4 that I still have. They have been some of the best, reliable, least expensive, funnest cars I have ever owned.

This is reassuring. I have a 2010 A4 with 120K on it, and it is starting to burn lots of oil! the Quattro really decreases tire longevity too. Love the car though.

 

[airdale]

... A guy put his Mustang off the road once chasing me through the hills just north of Helen, GA.

Funny. But what kind of handling can you expect from a 1962 Ford Fairlane even if it has revised bodywork? It will be interesting to see how the new ones are with the independent rear suspension. On paper they are still far too heavy.

Re Audis, AMEN on the scheduled maintenance. My wife's TT ended up getting a completely new cylinder head assembly after the timing belt broke and bent a bunch of valves. $4K. It turned out that Audi had made a mistake on the replacement interval when printing the USA owner manual, so they ended up eating it. IIRC they changed "km" to "miles" but forgot to convert the number.

 

[FORANE]

Ah, that makes sense. The bigger turbo does better with a larger, better flowing exhaust. Also, someone familiar with diesel tuning can use EFIlive and improve the tuning, and add a few mpg's. Was the computer swapped or retuned for the topkick engine? The tunes are a little different between the two and may be costing you a little too.

On topic, any of the cars mentioned are worthwhile vehicles. I don't know if they for your price range, but the VW TDI's are great cars as well.

No computer swap, no EFI live though I have heard of it. I have a programmer (came with the truck) and have tried a few different tunes. About the best I can do is 14 mpg freeway with an egg under my foot. Average about 10 mpg around town - my usual driving. Average maybe 5 mpg towing 16k 5th wheel.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

You have a range of sizes in the original list. I have a 2012 Chevy Cruze with the 1.4L turbo that I've been very happy with. Fit and finish are as good as anyone in the price range, and it is very quiet. Just under 40,000 miles, no issues. The mechanicals are a few years in cycle, and only the 2011s had notable issues. The driver ergonomics are great. Backseat legroom is a bit tight if the driver is tall, but not bad. Trunk is huge for the size class.

The Fusion and Accord are nice, but on the bigger size for your list, and you're not getting in those for $20K.

I've rented a few Sonatas and had them on long road trips. No thank you. They're inexpensive for their size for a reason.

 

[TheTraveler]

This is reassuring. I have a 2010 A4 with 120K on it, and it is starting to burn lots of oil! the Quattro really decreases tire longevity too. Love the car though.

Define lots. Burning it is normal, leaking it isn't. My A4 with the 2.8 would take maybe 1/2 to 1 quart between oil changes, but it depended on how I drove it. The S4 with the 4.2 will sometimes take none, or take a quart between oil changes. Again, just in how I drive it.

 

[TheTraveler]

Re Audis, AMEN on the scheduled maintenance.

+1! It's not a Honda where you can ignore those things and get away with it. But if you keep up with it, it will last just as long as a Honda.

 

[FastEddieB]

NEVER buy a new car, that's for suckers.

Subarus are great, much better engineering compared to Hondas and Toyotas.

First, new can be a rational choice.

Our current rides:

2005 Honda Element - bought new, now with 172,000 miles
2007 Jeep Wrangler - bought used about 2 years ago
2011 Ford Flex - bought used about a year ago.

We plan on driving the Element until the wheels fall off. If it happened now, that's 10 years use for $20k total if we got zero for it. Get a few more years out if it and recoup some of our initial $20k and it looks even better.

If you plan on keeping a vehicle a long time, new might be OK. If not, used is far more economical.

Individual anecdotes are worthless, but a friend with Subaru Outback about the same vintage as our Honda seemed to have issue after issue while ours just soldiered on with only one major issue involving the clutch.

We have new tires ready to go on the Element, and it could really use new shocks. Other than that, it's pretty much been 10k mile oil changes.

Honda Fit may be a bit small, but might go on your list. CRV is on the Civic/Element running gear and should be pretty reliable.

We're just hoping by the time the Element is toast that some sort of plug-in hybrid is available with a decent range on electric. Still waiting. Watching the evolution of the Prius carefully. And will be interesting to see if Tesla can move into more affordable territory with their proposed SUV.

 

[Jim_CAK]

First, new can be a rational choice. . .

You are correct - slightly used vehicles are really hodling their value. They are not always the bargen they used to be.
I just did that analysis and did end up buying a 2 year old SUV that had 12K mi and still had the factory warranty. I looked a long time and was surprised what the slightly used cars are going for.
We keep our cars a min of 10 years - so I had not looked for a car in over a decade. I was surprised how much the used market has changed.

 

[airdale]

You are correct - slightly used vehicles are really hodling their value. They are not always the bargain they used to be. ...

I am an "it's stupid to buy new" guy and I have run into that situation from time to time. One time I bought a new truck at $500 over invoice and my total cost was less than the 1-year-old trucks were selling for on the lots. I had to wait while they built it, but so what? I kept it well over ten years/150K miles before the rust exceeded my threshold.

Another workaround when used supplies are tight is to buy a one-model-year-old new car. We just did that with my wife's Mini. Used prices were astronomical, but haggling hard we ended up with a new car for less than the year-old used cars were selling for on the lots.

But ... back to the point: Any arithmetic you can do about keeping cars for a long time, the arithmetic will be better if you plug in a one- or two- year old used car price instead. There is nothing wrong at all with wanting a new car, but i almost every case it is self-delusional to believe that it is the economically best path.

 

[Alexb2000]

But ... back to the point: Any arithmetic you can do about keeping cars for a long time, the arithmetic will be better if you plug in a one- or two- year old used car price instead. There is nothing wrong at all with wanting a new car, but i almost every case it is self-delusional to believe that it is the economically best path.

If you are basing all purchases on cash maybe, but when you factor in the "free" money being offered on new cars and the opportunity cost of paying with cash the equation can change.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Funny. But what kind of handling can you expect from a 1962 Ford Fairlane even if it has revised bodywork? It will be interesting to see how the new ones are with the independent rear suspension. On paper they are still far too heavy.

Re Audis, AMEN on the scheduled maintenance. My wife's TT ended up getting a completely new cylinder head assembly after the timing belt broke and bent a bunch of valves. $4K. It turned out that Audi had made a mistake on the replacement interval when printing the USA owner manual, so they ended up eating it. IIRC they changed "km" to "miles" but forgot to convert the number.

The original Mustang came out based on the Ford Falcon platform, not the Fairlane.

And is a joy to drive with the 289 and a 4-speed.

 

[JoseCuervo]

No computer swap, no EFI live though I have heard of it. I have a programmer (came with the truck) and have tried a few different tunes. About the best I can do is 14 mpg freeway with an egg under my foot. Average about 10 mpg around town - my usual driving. Average maybe 5 mpg towing 16k 5th wheel.

Why did you put the Topkick motor in it?

 

[airdale]

If you are basing all purchases on cash maybe, but when you factor in the "free" money being offered on new cars and the opportunity cost of paying with cash the equation can change.

Certainly it is possible, but I think still not likely.

For example, in post #21 you hypothesized about how much you could make on holding onto your cash and used a 6% figure. That is delusional as far as a conservative analysis goes. The real world is probably closer to 1.6% for four years/brokered CDs. So the difference between your 0.9% car loan and 1.6% is 70 basis points. No way the extra depreciation you're going to see on that new vehicle will be below the net $1400 you're going to save on your interest rate arbitrage. And that doesn't even consider that the 0.9% is not tax deductible and the 1.6% is taxable.

If you're going to use 6% assuming success with a high risk investment, you might as well use 10% or 20% on the assumption that you'll take the money to Vegas and win.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I just did that analysis and did end up buying a 2 year old SUV that had 12K mi and still had the factory warranty. I looked a long time and was surprised what the slightly used cars are going for.

.

Not saying this is the case, but it is odd to find a 2 year old vehicle that only has 12k miles. Not sure enough of those are around that someone could plan to follow that model.

And, even worse, if it only got 12k miles as a "Lemon" or a "near-Lemon" one might be better off with a new vehicle.

That low of mileage would raise as many yellow flags as might be on other options.

Again, not saying it is the case, just saying it is always a a possible factor.

 

[airdale]

... And is a joy to drive with the 289 and a 4-speed. ...

Glad you're happy. I have briefly owned a couple of Shelby Mustangs ('66 GT350 and '68 GT500KR Convert) and have raced a Showroom Stock Mustang. In the context of cars that I have owned, including a Lotus Elan, a couple of Porsches, and currently an RX8, the Mustangs are pigs that will neither go around corners nor stop. Reasonably fun in a straight line, yes, but nothing like a Jensen Interceptor or a real 289 Cobra --- both of which I have also owned. Sorry for the OT excursion.

 

[Alexb2000]

Certainly it is possible, but I think still not likely.

For example, in post #21 you hypothesized about how much you could make on holding onto your cash and used a 6% figure. That is delusional as far as a conservative analysis goes. The real world is probably closer to 1.6% for four years/brokered CDs. So the difference between your 0.9% car loan and 1.6% is 70 basis points. No way the extra depreciation you're going to see on that new vehicle will be below the net $1400 you're going to save on your interest rate arbitrage. And that doesn't even consider that the 0.9% is not tax deductible and the 1.6% is taxable.

If you're going to use 6% assuming success with a high risk investment, you might as well use 10% or 20% on the assumption that you'll take the money to Vegas and win.

Here is one of my investments, set it and forget it. Look at the 20 year average (or any other time period for that matter), sure there is an element of risk but a relatively small one. On a tax basis long term investments enjoy the compounding effect of delayed taxation, while paying cash for a car is 100% after tax dollars. On a percentage basis (vs. total cost) a used car out of warranty certainly has some very tangible mechanical repair risk to it as well. CD's? OK, sure, net against inflation and you might as well take your money to Vegas and have some fun.

https://www.dodgeandcox.com/balancedfund_character.asp

 

[JoseCuervo]

Glad you're happy. I have briefly owned a couple of Shelby Mustangs ('66 GT350 and '68 GT500KR Convert) and have raced a Showroom Stock Mustang. In the context of cars that I have owned, including a Lotus Elan, a couple of Porsches, and currently an RX8, the Mustangs are pigs that will neither go around corners nor stop. Reasonably fun in a straight line, yes, but nothing like a Jensen Interceptor or a real 289 Cobra --- both of which I have also owned. Sorry for the OT excursion.

I have a Jensen Interceptor II that is a joy to drive, when the got dammed electrical issues are fixed, but the little 65 Pony car is still more fun.

And the Pony wins on turning heads.