New and Don’t know what to do.

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Madison890, Jun 1, 2019.

  1. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,101
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ and Ensenada, Mexico
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rgbeard
    Not a joke - this is an issue with mouse infested cars, as well.

    Wipe down EVERYTHING inside that you can. Hantavirus sucks.
     
    benyflyguy and Zeldman like this.
  2. Madison890

    Madison890 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mady

    Hahaha man there was some scary scary stuff in that hangar. I wish I had more pics of other things worse things than that toilet. If I wasn’t so excited about the plane I might have a Valid PTSD claim moving forward.
     
  3. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,217
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Once you get it flying you'll understand what I mean. things that have not run for a while tend to be short lifed.
     
    mondtster likes this.
  4. Madison890

    Madison890 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mady

    I left the logs with the mechanic, but there was a difference between last annual and tach time. I could be Wrong but I was thinking it was close to 20 hours difference. With the amount of dust on the outside of the plane I assumed it had been sitting for at least three years which would make sense being that’s how long it has been out of annual. Having Now spoken to more people in the area it now seems that maybe it had been sitting much less than that. That area of the country I guess is constantly gusty and has plenty of dirt to accumulate a larger amount of dust that I am used to. Again no way far me to tell, but I’ve been described as annoying optimistic so I’ll try and believe it’s sat less than three years. I can’t imagine it’s been flown in at least a year though. I am going to try and fly with it Is i can. Not concerned about logging flight hours just interested in the experience. I’m a former Army infantryman and find it hard to imagine anything too scary to get me to shy away from flying and having fun in the air. Ive been wrong before though so we will see. Whoever ends up flying it back will have final say on who rides though.
     
  5. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,217
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    It could have flown for 12 calendar months after the date of the last annual. 20 hours wouldn't surprise me.
    then it only sat 2 years.
     
  6. Madison890

    Madison890 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mady
    Yeah I would guess that is about right. There were some false statements made leading up to the purchase. The previous owner and I are pretty cool now and it seems more accurate information is being divulged. I wouldn’t say anyone lied its probably that now I am asking more exact question. Previous owner is actually pretty cool guy and held plane for a day with a bunch of over asking price offers. I’m lucky I got it, well that’s how I feel anyway. Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement.
     
  7. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Messages:
    2,690
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ircphoenix
    It worries me a little to hear you say you haven't started flight training, you don't know much about the process of purchasing an aircraft, you haven't gotten your medical done... all seems like you've put the cart before the horse.

    I sincerely hope it works out well for you.
     
    Bobanna and SkyDog58 like this.
  8. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    13,574
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    But I do not believe that you have any experience with this particular plane or the mechanic doing the work so what you wrote is pure guess work. The fact is that you do not know how detailed and thorough of an inspection and maintenance process it will go through. None of us do. And speaking from experience, some mechanics don’t do as thorough of a job as others.
     
  9. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,084
    Location:
    Conway, MO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    LTD
    That's what I did. I wrote a check for a pretty old '57, 172, scratched my nuts, and said, "hmmmm, guess I ought to learn how to fly."

    Granted, mine was at my home field and I had a good friend who was an A/P on the field. That's a bit safer than buying one 4 states away.

    I'd highly recommend buying a plane to learn how to fly in. It gave me a completely different and better attitude towards my training than had I been renting. Plus, I KNEW my plane was safely maintained.
     
  10. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,217
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    I knew you'd be the one who wouldn't understand.
    Read my post and tell me what I guessed about.
    When you get experience in this area you know I'm right.
    Appliances like radios, instruments, alternators, starters simply don't do well after setting for long periods.
    every thing may work and be airworthy now, but the next 100 hours will tell.
     
    Ryanb likes this.
  11. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    4,483
    Location:
    KFAR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Priyo
    aint that the truth...
     
  12. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    4,483
    Location:
    KFAR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Priyo
    same here, only difference is I did have my medical and a student pilot license. but everytime I spoke about buying a plane to my then CFI, he told me in numerous direct and indirect ways not to do it since he wasn't confident that I will ever solo. I heard what he said (showed him the middle finger in my mind), paid little attention to it, hired a ferry pilot, went to WA , saw the plane for the first time, the ferry pilot did the pre-buy, next day flew over cascades and then at night over Midwest back home.

    if one can afford it, learning in their own plane is invaluable. takes a little more time since now you are now an owner and thats a full time job by itself depending on how engaged you want to be.
     
  13. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    11,481
    Location:
    high desert NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy

    ^^^^This ^^^^

    If I had quit every time I was told I could not or should not attempt to do something I never would have left the first grade.

    I used to carry a note in my wallet that said, ''If you don't try, you have already failed.''
     
    azblackbird, 3393RP, Bobanna and 2 others like this.
  14. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,217
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Maybe not this one, but I've been here before. Why do you think when I do an old birds wake up I replace every thing? This ain't my first rodeo.
     
    Ryanb likes this.
  15. Madison890

    Madison890 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mady
    I’m pleased to report that my uncle has come to the rescue. He has bunches of experience around small and large aircraft. He will be there in the am as will I to meet and observe mechanic at work. He was in Air Force in Alaska for 20+ years. I thought he might have time to come take a look and it just so happened he was en-route. I’ll have pics and posts tomorrow afternoon. Thanks again guys.
     
    UngaWunga, 3393RP, WannFly and 3 others like this.
  16. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    10,207
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Looking forward to seeing them!
     
  17. david.h

    david.h Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    165
    Location:
    Boerne, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    david.h
    Please post what you can.
     
  18. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,217
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    My best advice on this aircraft.
    get ADlog.com
    start it at this annual, have the A&P check and comply with every AD listed.
    Log the annual in the new logs and go from there. place the old logs in safe keeping there is nothing in them that means anything anymore.
     
  19. apr911

    apr911 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2015
    Messages:
    397
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    apr911
    At least until you go to sell the plane (hence why you should keep the logs in a safe place).
     
  20. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,217
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    True, a buyer perspective not a maintenance issue, until a new AD comes out requiring research.
     
  21. farmrjohn

    farmrjohn Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    81
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    farmrjohn
    Ominously quiet, must have run into some "issues".
     
  22. Jeff767

    Jeff767 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    92
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jeff767
    I suspect given the pictures he posted there were a lot of issues. They will get sorted out but it will take time and money. Airplanes hate to sit!
     
  23. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,435
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    UngaWunga
    Man, I'm proud of this forum. You guys/galls ALMOST got to the second page before getting all negative and preachy and ****. Congratulations.

    Wish I was closer so I could help out. After getting it through an annual, I'd fly it around the pattern for 30min - an hour, land, and check everything out. If it looks good, head home. Have fun!
     
    TipTanks, Mike Smith and 3393RP like this.
  24. deadeye99

    deadeye99 Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    deadeye99
    I am eagerly awaiting the follow up. This could go in any direction. OP? @Madison890
     
  25. farmrjohn

    farmrjohn Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    81
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    farmrjohn
    I'm afraid no news is not good news. It's almost a week since "I’ll have pics and posts tomorrow afternoon" was posted. I was hoping for a happy ending to this tale.
     
  26. Piperonca

    Piperonca Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    222
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Piperonca
  27. Jeff767

    Jeff767 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    92
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jeff767
    It would be nice if the OP would post some updates. Clearly he ran into some issues but given the condition of the airframe that was expected.
     
  28. Madison890

    Madison890 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mady
    OK so I have an update. I brought an A&P out from Florida. And have a pilot that is going to ferry it back to me this Wednesday. Everything was extremely difficult being that the closest airport was three hours round-trip. But we pulled all inspection plates inspected oil re-tuned spark plugs. Got entry and logbook. But now I have a new issue. Maybe I should start a new thread but I don’t know. This plane according to multiple previous owners and the FAA and now Cessna has never been issued and airworthiness certificate. Monday morning I plan on calling the gentleman in their legal department I’ve been dealing with and asking if they will just issue one now but what are my options otherwise?
     
  29. Madison890

    Madison890 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mady
    I have learned a lot in the past two weeks. I broke my leg which slowed things down a bit. One of the plugs we bought was dropped and is not firing. But everything else looks OK enough to fly home. I was told from the FSDO in Little Rock that without an airworthiness certificate I cannot get a ferry permit. But I’ve been told now from other people at the FAA and ferry pilots that a Ferry permit is a temporary airworthiness certificate. I hope on Monday the lawyer at Cessna will provide me with a new airworthiness certificate since One was never issued. one was never issued. They have sent all their documents directly from Cessna documents they called delivery documents which are all the inspection and checklist and all paperwork required in order to sell the airplane. It’s about 58 pages. The lawyer I talk to said every other folder has an air worthiness certificate for some reason mine does not and he doesn’t have a good explanation why. I’m hoping they will just issue one for me themselves. The FAA also has no record of ever having an airworthiness certificate which they claim is a weird thing as well. The last place That did an annual mentioned on their entry that there was no airworthiness certificate. And three previous owners now can’t remember ever seeing one either. The lawyer at Cessna is real cool and easy to work with he emailed me within three days all those 58 pages of documents. I’m thinking that’s my best bet if anybody else has a better idea please please let me know. But she flies all compressions were good and I’m still as if not more excited than I was before. Thank all of you for the help and suggestions I might be needing some more in the future. I hope you’re all well thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    UngaWunga likes this.
  30. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    11,481
    Location:
    high desert NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    You know that is just a saying and not something that needs to be actually done...

    Your luck has to get better now.. :yesnod::yesnod:
     
  31. Madison890

    Madison890 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mady
    Thanks. Any advice on the airworthiness certificate? They gave me insurance without it. I just can’t wrap my head around it never have been around.
     
  32. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,200
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad
    Thanks for the update. I've been rooting for you and sorry to hear about the paperwork issue.

    Slight Aside: Not going for a witch hunt but I am curious...when a IA signs off on a annual (or anything else for that matter) is there a single line in the FAR's anywhere that require it to also have a airworthiness certificate? Anything, even something as simple as a number from it needing to be logged. And along those lines, can a IA sign off anything and list a serial number of N number if there is no airworthiness certificate.

    Very, very strange that this plane doesn't have one. What is incredibly strange is that you indicated (3) previous owners couldn't remember it having one. That means every time they took off there we violating the regulations. Hopefully none of them ever had a checkride with a examiner.
     
  33. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    10,207
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    I’m not sure how it couldn’t have one...

    Any airplane that rolls off the assembly line will get an airworthiness certificate. Seems odd.
     
    TipTanks likes this.
  34. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,200
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad
    Hopefully the Ferry Permit is valid in place of a airworthiness certificate...at least you can get it home.

    You are learning a pretty important lesson. Just today I was taking photos of my wife's friends Citabria to help her sell it. Before we even got serious I peeked in and saw the certificate. We have photos of ours in multiple places so we at least have a paper trail.
     
  35. kath

    kath Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Katherine
    Wow!

    Agree with @Sinistar above. I'm trying to imaging the moment when an A&P is doing an annual, and says to him/her self: "I don't see an airworthiness certificate anywhere... but hey everything else looks fine, so I'll just make a note of that in the logbook and sign this puppy off!" Whaa?

    Then I try to imagine the last three owners (??) saying to themselves: "I don't see an airworthiness certificate anywhere, but hey, everything else looks fine, so I'll buy it and fly it anyway!" How does that happen? "AROW" is like Chapter 2 of ground school...

    But there must be some way of re-issuing one; after all, aircraft get rebuilt after accidents and such. No idea how that works, though... Best of luck!
     
    benyflyguy likes this.
  36. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,200
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad
    Looks like its: N1653Y (1963 172C). Do you have a serial number for it? Maybe if share some more information a fellow POA'er will find you something useful.
     
  37. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    13,574
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    I call BS on it never having an airworthiness certificate. And I really doubt that the FAA said that.
     
    mondtster likes this.
  38. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,200
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad
    I just did a quick internet search and a website ("Aviationdb.net) indicates the airworthiness certificate was issued on "1962-05-21". A weird comment on "2005-08-22" indicating the N Number was assigned an d registered. And that is in the a new section titled "------- Deregistered Aircraft 1 -------"
     
  39. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,200
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad
    If a aircraft is de-registered is the airworthiness certificate required to be surrendered?
     
  40. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    13,574
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    I hope you don’t mean what I think you mean.
     
    Sinistar likes this.