Need some ideas for a new plane for a club

Ozone

Ozone

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Ozone
Several of us have been tasked with the idea of looking into adding a 5th plane to our club. We currently have 3 pipers (warrior, archer, arrow), and 1 cirrus sr-20. The last time the club polled people, most folks were flying under 200nm, we had a majority who were VFR rated, and there were a lot of comments about higher payloads/higher performance planes.

When i have gone scouting around, without it costing $$$, it seems that there's a tradeoff between higher performance and higher payload.

I have personally thought of some out-of-the-box ideas like a stinson with a 200+ hp engine. Several members, at the last poll, wanted a SR-22, but the price on those seems awfully high.

All of this is to say: what say you POA people? What ideas would you have? What have you seen work in clubs before?
 
Cherokee six. Massive payload, easy to fly and insure. Trade-off = not fast.......
 
I was briefly a member of a "club" that had a couple DA20's and a DA40. I "joined" so I could get some time in a DA40.
 
asicer said:
One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?
Click to expand...
LOL, i know...but the cirrus is fun, and is now getting well used by members.
 
Ozone said:
LOL, i know...but the cirrus is fun, and is now getting well used by members.
Click to expand...

Heh, I was referring to the suggestions on the 182. How would your members feel about a high-wing? Are there any checkout/currency/insurance concerns on the 182 with pilots that have mostly Piper/Cirrus time?
 
They'd have to get used to being able to see what's below them...
 
I will second the Cherokee 6. Give the club a plane with a little different mission. Plus, if you already have Piper drivers, the plane is going to feel very familiar. If you want faster get a Lance (although not much faster), and a Lance is going to be faster than all the other planes listed other than the Cirrus.
 
Get the Stinson!

You'll love it, I had mine before my 185 and they are really a sweet heart plane, much more plane compared to a 182 or PA28 line, mine was a 150hp, personally I'd stick with a 150 or 165hp, lighter feeling plane.

You'll just need a good tailwheel CFI to make sure you're members will return the 108 in one piece.
 
Why not just make a free survey at surveymonkey and ask the members what mission they have that they can't fill with a club airplane? Start with some real data.
 
denverpilot said:
Why not just make a free survey at surveymonkey and ask the members what mission they have that they can't fill with a club airplane? Start with some real data.
Click to expand...

Real data? Heresy! Just tell the man to buy a Bo (or a twin) and be done with it!
:D

Actually, Nate makes an excellent suggestion. What missions go unfulfilled now?

John
 
jsstevens said:
R.....Actually, Nate makes an excellent suggestion. What missions go unfulfilled now?

John
Click to expand...

"....and there were a lot of comments about higher payloads/higher performance planes."
 
Our club briefly thought of adding a Cirrus. But that was kiboshed by our insurance carrier due to large cost and large number of minimum hours.

But for the OP, I agree a Skylane is a good choice. Bonanza should be considered too.
 
In our club, we have two archers, two arrows, and two bonanzas. The idea is to have a progression of planes to fly as the club members become more proficient. Recently we added a Cirrus SR-20 Generation 2.

We like to buy planes that are about a decade old, letting the first owner(s) eat the early depreciation. This plan was upset when Piper and Cessna stopped building planes, as there is a gap of appropriately aged planes for this plan. We also felt that the Cirrus line, being the best seller that it has become, is most likely the wave of the future so we went in that direction with the Cirrus purchase.

Buy a plane that meets the needs of your current members but as these folks leave aviation (to pay college expenses, lose their medicals, whatever) you have a fleet of aircraft that is also desirable for the new crop of members that you must attract.
 
jsstevens said:
Actually, Nate makes an excellent suggestion. What missions go unfulfilled now?
Click to expand...

Only thing maybe to add to the survey is a question about price range for that "unfulfilled mission".

In other words, if you go get a C-130 for the folks saying they need more payload and nobody can afford to fuel it...

"If we added an aircraft capable of carrying four FAA sized adults and baggage, would you fly it regularly if it cost $X, $Y, or $Z?"

And of course you probably already have data on who's got certain numbers of hours and ratings, but if the insurer says a particular type needs say, "10 hours in type" you can ask that question in the survey also..."

"If you had to fly with a club CFI for 10 hours in this aircraft before you could rent it solo, would you pay the $X for that? Would having a temporary block time discount for those who want to meet the minimums be something you'd want?"

Etc etc etc.

It's been many many years since I played the role of club secretary and I still have the scars. We brought a Mooney on leaseback into a two airplane club back then and virtually nobody flew it because they didn't want to go get the 5 hours or whatever it was back then to meet the minimums. I did and pretty much enjoyed that airplane all to myself whenever I wanted to use it. Took it on multiple trips and never once had a scheduling conflict. The Doc who owned it was glad a few of us bothered to fly it.

So you have to think about that part also. People can be ultra lazy when presented with the option of, "I can rent the Skyhawk and go flying right now, or I can see if a club CFI is available, have to book them and their time as well as the airplane -- well the airplane is sitting so that part isn't a problem -- pay them the reduced rate they all agreed to charge for checkouts in the Mooney --and ... Ahh hell with it. I'll just call and book the Skyhawk and go flying..."

Back then I found the minimal price difference (in that particular club) between the 172 and 172RG also meant I could book nearly anytime and the Mooney was also cheap back then, so between the two retracts I always had something I could go fly "right now" and maybe even book to be gone a week in. The Skyhawk was nice but it was always a bear to book on weekends.

So in that particular club... We'd have added another Skyhawk or similar if we could have before the whole club folded for non-aviation reasons. Something with a "one flight" checkout (assuming the pilot wasn't out of currency or totally rusty).

Unfortunately the low end airplanes appeal the most to weekend warriors when it comes down to what actually flies.
 
I too vote Cherokee 6. Suckers haul, can be had for not so much coin, and similar to what you got already.
 
How about a PA-28-235? Hauls a load, qualifies for an HP endorsement and might have cheaper insurance than a Cherokee 6.
 
A Cessna 206 will allow large airline sized baggage to be carried and has lots of payload.

But really, poll your members, which I'm sure you are going to do.
 
Oh just get a twin, like a Cessna 310. Think there may be one available soon from a member on here. :D

If not, a Lance or Cherokee 6 would keep it in the family. Cessna 177 or 182 also good choices, although I'd go for the 182.
 
You are a piper shop. Get a Saratoga. The pilots who have arrow time will have little difficulty getting insured. If you want to broaden the number of users, get a 2-tank Cherokee Six or a fixed gear Saratoga.
 
Piper 260' Comanche,easy to transition too ,fast ,easy to maintain,easy to fly.
 
Cessna 150 to do your IFR training in....
 
Unless you are certain you have demand for a 6-place plane, I would go with a Dakota. As mentioned, you are a Piper shop.
 
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