NA Uber ("cab" service)

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Dave Taylor
Did not find in a search but I used for the first time last night.....

I am having a hard time figuring out how a driver can justify this.
The car took 5 mins to arrive, 12 mins to get me to destination, probably 10 to get back = 27mins. The fare was $6.04. I am reading they get 80%....or almost $5 on my ride. So $10/hr minus expenses? Really?
Tips are not necessary....but they will get some - but is that enough to bring it to a worthwhile wage?
And, I can't believe there are enough 'return rides' - to counter the 10 mins I estimated it took him to get back.
Don't they also have to spring for commercial insurance too?
 
Yes, they have insurance requirements that aren't cheap.

Many are monetizing a car they already own and time they aren't using. So, I can leave my car in the garage or I can go get some money with it. You rated things in TIME and not MILEAGE.

I like uber and I'm glad it makes sense to some people to provide the service.

Also note, many private guys use Uber to fill unused time that they would otherwise use for scheduled rides and/or airport runs in the their "regular" service.
 
The key to making money with Uber is to place yourself where rides are plentiful and to go where the partner app shows there's a demand (which it jacks up the fairs using their "SURGE" prices).

Yep, I had a coupon for $20 so I took Uber Black to the oral surgeon. Had a nice conversation with the driver. He uses it exactly for that...picking up extra fares between scheduled rides. He was happy I took him from the IAD area down the road a bit because he had a scheduled pickup at DCA and this defrayed at least part of what would have been a dead head ride for him.

Most of the serious uber guys seem to be using priuses or other highly fuel efficient vehicles.
 
Is there a promotional credit for your first use of the app?

I got one from Hello Fresh and other outlets. You can find them by googling. They typically give you $15-20 off your first ride.
 
Here I thought you were a coupon clipping cheap skate! ;)

No doubt about that. Best clip ever was the "10% of Any RV" coupon I found in TAP. My wife could not possibly allow the value of that one to go unused. :rofl:
 
I am having a hard time figuring out how a driver can justify this.
The car took 5 mins to arrive, 12 mins to get me to destination, probably 10 to get back = 27mins.

They do not have to go "back". The app keeps track of where they are, and will funnel ride requests to them
 
They do not have to go "back". The app keeps track of where they are, and will funnel ride requests to them

Yeah, I would imagine that it works similar to that where the app acts like their dispatch. Most cabbies do not return to their base between fares, instead they hang out in the general area of their last drop-off unless it is in a remote area or if they can do better by heading to the airport or other such location and getting in the queue. I would think that Uber follows a similar model. I have never used it so I am not an expert.
 
The Partner App (the thing the driver's use) doesn't care what you are doing when you are online. The driver could be sitting home watching TV, he could be driving around, he could have just dropped off a previous fare. There's a little spur of an unbuilt (yet) road that a lot of the Uber drivers hang out because it puts them in very close distance wise to IAD (without being on airport property). I see them there every time I go to pick up my mail.

When a customer makes a request the app just finds the nearest available "online" driver and alerts them. If they acknowledge within the time limit they are dispatched otherwise it tries another.

Anyhow, the surge pricing shows up on the partner map encouraging the drivers to work their way to the high demand areas. Further, Uber sends texts to drivers telling them when weather or some event leads them to believe they will need higher levels of drivers.


I've made drop offs and got an alert for a pickup IMMEDIATELY and less than three blocks away.
 
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If you want to make money be in a high taxi area,drive in inclement weather,and drive on the week ends. I like the idea that you can drive when the weather is down and you can't fly.
 
I used Uber 3 times last night. One driver was heading back to downtown after dropping someone off out in the suburbs ($14), the next was a quick lift across downtown ($8), and then back home ($16). All were less than 15 minute trips and because it's all billed through the app, drop offs are quick. Cars were a Hyundai Accent, Ford Crown Vic, and Ford Escape. I'm guessing the profitability really lies in what kind of car you drive.


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I use it all the time in Philadelphia. You do get a $20 credit when you use it the first time and if you recommend another person to get the app. A friend of mine drove for them when he first moved here and used it simply to meet some new people.He said factoring in expenses he did make a profit, but said he definitely couldn't live off it. If you are an UberX(cheaper Uber) driver I don't believe have to have any additional insurance. As others have said, if you drive when it is raining/snowing out or on weekends demand is high and you can stay pretty busy. Coming back from the Philly airport they do a flat rate based on where you are going to in the city and you can only get the Uber Black cars to pick you up. I like it because unlike a cab, I can split the fare with another friend in the car that has the app as well. Usually the driver just hangs out in the area they drop you off(unless you ask to go out in the sticks).
 
An Uber driver yesterday, in Chicago, said that spending free time driving his Corolla for Uber keeps him from spending money on food and drink. That's the main way it helps him financially.
 
I fail to understand what's so great about Uber. I used it a few times (well, not myself but the friend I was visiting) the last time I was in New York City, and literally every ride cost significantly more than the same ride on a medallion cab would have cost.

Even allowing a very wide margin for the imprecision of trying to calculate distance and time idling as a taxi meter would, Uber rides cost an average of 20 to 30 percent more than a medallion cab fare. One ride was nearly three times what the medallion taxi fare would have been. My friend told me that was because of the "Surge" pricing.

Not only that, but she and I spent quite a bit of time standing in the rain waiting for the Uber cars she'd called for, ignoring roughly half a bazillion yellow cabs that drove by and that we could have hailed while waiting. But that didn't seem to bother her. She kept pulling me under her umbrella so I could look at the little virtual cars moving on her screen, while here in the real world, yellow cab after yellow cab passed us by.

I don't get it. As best as I could tell from my experiences with my friend, the only thing that's marginally attractive about Uber is the "cool factor." The app and the idea are novel, I'll give you that much. But other than that, it seems like a much more expensive and slower way to get around The City.

Rich
 
It depends on your location and timing. Low density area or normal travel times- cheap and quick (or nice and quick for uber black). NYE Times Square, with a 9x Surge multiplier- fuhhgeddaboutit.
 
Used it 5 times in Ft Worth this weekend.
Overall I was pleased with it.
The entire time, I felt like I was cheating the cab drivers, because the Uber drivers were competing unfairly (they don't pay taxes or license fees according to my readings, no radio dispatch to support, no signs/lights/painted cars/uniforms etc, no commercial insurance or biz insurance).
The app, to my brain, is not all that intuitive. It asked me where I was and kept calling the hotel 'Work" and giving it an 8-digit code instead of Omni Hotel 400 Houston St or whatever it really is. You then request a car and do not give it the destination until after the car is on the way. I guess I expected different. And it relies on Googlemaps I think...which is about 90% accurate. I think the interface is illogical; I never felt on top of what was happening, expected, or what was next. I like that I could call the drivers; after the first one, I called them all and described myself (awesome, stylish dude in jeans/blue shirt) and exactly where I was standing. The driver messaging feature never did work for me.
They all arrived promptly & found my destination with a little help. (One went a few miles east but with my mention that the sun should not be in our eyes for a north departure, quickly corrected the plan)
They all had tolerable equipment. (it ranged from 'almost new and spacious' to a 'cramped older car') and we did not get stranded somewhere. I was going to say I never felt unsafe, but the driving of the last one was not on par with that I've experienced with FtW cab drivers.
So there is quite a bit of variability in equipment and driving.
Every driver was polite but not all of them spoke English well. In addition to the reasons to drive given above; 'saves on spending money because they are busy', I wonder if some of them don't do it for the entertainment value.
The last guy kept apologizing (well, three times) about the a/c because it would blast you then shut down, repeatedy on a whim...it wasn't a big deal. The app allows you to grade them so I suspect they are motivated to get these things fixed promptly.
They all helped with bags when necessary, several had water bottles in the door pockets. No cars smelled of cigarettes though one driver complained about a previous pax stinking up the car simply by sitting in it. Another said they refuse to drive at night, stupid stuff happens after dark (described drunks etc).
One thing I picked up on is, most of them seem to expect you to sit in back. One guy had a 30lb Qu'ran sitting on the pax seat, that was pretty obvious. Another had a large electronic box there, others have the front seats well forward. If it was advertised on the app, I missed it.
I asked a couple about insurance, they said they did not need or have special insurance. Reading online, it seems like that not be true...at least in some states. Have to wonder what would happen if an underinsured Uber driver caused a million$ injury to a pax.
I asked some about 'having to drive back' and it seemed like that happened about 50% of the time. (the other times they waited around for a call near the last drop-off)
I was shocked to learn Uber is a $50B business! according to one news article.....and they have a dozen lawsuits pending at any one time.
Oh, one more thought about it. It might be unfair competition to cabs but with the much lower rates, I went to more places than if I was restricted to cabs - that probably offsets the unfairness thing a bit.
 
Tell the guy with the air-conditioning problem to check his blower motor resistor.

Rich
 
I'm not sure that Uber is "unfair" to cabs, and I certainly wouldn't avoid them even if that were true. Then again, I admit to being market-biased; if Uber is a better way, traditional cabbies could migrate toward it. The cabs have lots of overhead in part because that's the cozy system they set up. Uber and Lyft hit the scene and the cabs don't like the competition, but the reality is that it has simply required the cabs to be more competitive. As Rich mentioned, in at least some situations, cabs can be less expensive than Uber; I suspect this is especially true when surge pricing kicks in, but if that means you can get Uber and have to wait a while for a cab, perhaps the uplift is worth it.

I will admit that the lack of oversight with Uber does give me pause when I think about jumping into a stranger's car. I suppose that Uber makes some attempt to vet its drivers, but I'm not sure that there are many teeth in its enforcement mechanisms. No doubt that traditional cabbies have many of the same issues lurking behind the veil of government oversight. Overall, it is good that services like Uber and Lyft allow folks who would likely otherwise be shut out to enter an industry. It's a big win for the consumer.


JKG
 
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Uber is very much unfair to cab companies. In our town there are a lot of requirements if you want to run a taxi service. x number of cars, hours you must be available, permits, driver requirements. The city sued Uber when they first started operating here because they met none of the requirements. Uber didn't care and kept operating as if nothing had happened. The city eventually caved after they realized the behemoth they were fighting.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great concept, but it's not right that the small taxi companies have to play by the rules, but the new guy doesn't.

Just for fun I plugged in the cost for a 3 mile ride from home to work a while back. $8 (plus tip) seems exhorbitant, especially if I planned on returning home at some point.
 
I fail to understand what's so great about Uber. I used it a few times (well, not myself but the friend I was visiting) the last time I was in New York City, and literally every ride cost significantly more than the same ride on a medallion cab would have cost.

In NYC it's regulated and I believe they have to charge the same fees as cabs. The only benefit in NYC is that you have the great dispatch app, and the Uber cars tend to be nicer than cabs.

Elsewhere, Uber is much less expensive than cabs. I have used it in probably 10-15 different cities. Its GREAT for GA, as sometimes rental cars can be too expensive or difficult to arrange.
 
Uber is very much unfair to cab companies. In our town there are a lot of requirements if you want to run a taxi service.

I don't care, because cab companies generally suck. There are some great companies in the transportation biz, but the traditional cab is the lowest form of transportation IMO. Beat crown vics with bald tires, non-existant shocks and squealing brakes.
 
Uber is very much unfair to cab companies. In our town there are a lot of requirements if you want to run a taxi service. x number of cars, hours you must be available, permits, driver requirements. The city sued Uber when they first started operating here because they met none of the requirements. Uber didn't care and kept operating as if nothing had happened. The city eventually caved after they realized the behemoth they were fighting.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great concept, but it's not right that the small taxi companies have to play by the rules, but the new guy doesn't.

Just for fun I plugged in the cost for a 3 mile ride from home to work a while back. $8 (plus tip) seems exhorbitant, especially if I planned on returning home at some point.

Politicians "cave" to Uber because they fear the power of the progressive young people in the electorate more than the established cab industry. Uber was a startup company who had no real power or influence on their own.

As for the overhead of traditional cab companies, I have no sympathy. The cab industry was complicit in establishing that system, which was designed in large part to control (limit) competition. They did little to change over time, thus resulting in a huge opportunity for companies like Uber and Lyft.


JKG
 
The app, to my brain, is not all that intuitive. I

A few notes on the app...

Set the pin EXACTLY where you want to be picked up. If you're in the mall for example, put the pin right on whichever mall exit you want to be picked up at. Most buildings (hotels) and shopping area parking lots will be depicted on the map.

Once you request the ride and the driver is on the way, there is a little flag that says 'enter destination'. If you do choose to enter the destination at this time, when the driver picks you up, he will know exactly where he is going and his App will pre-load google maps' directions. This saves you from having to give verbal directions etc...

One more note - the drivers do not carry insurance themselves, but are insured by Uber for liability when they are driving passengers or going to pick up a passenger. The drivers are not required to have any more insurance other than the usual state required insurance for a private individual. Here is a snippet from a news article about a law recently passed in NC that basically legitimizes Uber/Lift.

The new law, passed last month by the legislature, requires drivers for ride-hailing apps to carry insurance during and between rides. The companies must pay a $5,000 annual state permit fee, and conduct local and national criminal background checks on the drivers, who use their personal cars to give people rides.

“That’s what we’re requiring, is to continue the safety we have for riders,” said McCrory, speaking at the Charlotte Chamber before signing the bill. “This is all about people’s independence and flexibility ... The more choice, the better. The consumer wins.”

One reason Uber hailed the regulations: The company helped write them, and they are based largely on Uber’s business model. The bill would “basically codify Uber’s way of doing business,” legislative researcher Greg Roney told a Senate committee in June.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article34037253.html#storylink=cpy
 
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I fail to understand what's so great about Uber. I used it a few times (well, not myself but the friend I was visiting) the last time I was in New York City, and literally every ride cost significantly more than the same ride on a medallion cab would have cost.
New York (at least much of Manhattan) is not a particularly good place for Uber because the cabs are easy to obtain and plentiful. When I worked on Wall Street we also used the gray cabs. Once you get into the other boroughs even it's a different story. Uber is a definite win in places like Brooklyn where you're not going to find medallion cabs wandering around looking for fares.

In towns like DC where the taxi service is horrendous, expensive, and corrupt, Uber if fantastic. I'd take an Uber over taking a DC cab that's standing right in front of me.
 
Uber is very much unfair to cab companies.

Maybe Uber is the result of cab companies that are not fair to the consumer? If I had received good service from cabs then I wouldn't even think about using Uber.
 
Maybe Uber is the result of cab companies that are not fair to the consumer? If I had received good service from cabs then I wouldn't even think about using Uber.

??? How are cab companies not fair to the consumer? Bad service isn't being unfair, it's pretty much the norm. But maybe you mean something else, I'm not sure.

My only point is that Uber should be required to play by the same rules.
 
Insurance: My automotive insurer sent a letter at renewal time for one of the vehicles this year, "reminding" me that participation in Uber/Lyft type activities was NOT covered by them, and offering to call an 800 number to add a rider for it.

I suspect folks that get injured aboard one of these vehicles will be in for a nasty surprise when they have to sue the driver to cover medical expenses, as the insurers change over to not covering it without the waiver.
 
Here in New Haven the taxi situation is terrible. The cab companies are unreliable and expensive, often leaving you stranded if dispatch gets a better date. I have missed several trains due to that problem. Uber has always been reliable, friendly, and cheap. I would be glad if it out the old cab companies out of business.
 
New York (at least much of Manhattan) is not a particularly good place for Uber because the cabs are easy to obtain and plentiful. When I worked on Wall Street we also used the gray cabs. Once you get into the other boroughs even it's a different story. Uber is a definite win in places like Brooklyn where you're not going to find medallion cabs wandering around looking for fares.

In towns like DC where the taxi service is horrendous, expensive, and corrupt, Uber if fantastic. I'd take an Uber over taking a DC cab that's standing right in front of me.

In New York City's "outer boroughs," what denizens call "car services" (livery or "for-hire" cabs) have always been the most common way to buy a ride. Livery cab companies, their cars, and their drivers are TLC-licensed; but their drivers and cars usually aren't allowed to hack. The cars also lack taxi meters and the drivers are allowed to charge whatever they like for a trip as long as they state the fare in advance. Most of the "companies" merely provide dispatch services. The drivers usually own their own cars.

The cars are not the newest: Most are former yellow cabs that exceeded mandatory retirement age for that work, and so were repainted any color other than yellow (but usually black) and put into livery service. The requirements for a for-hire driver's license are slightly different than for a hack license, but still include a background check, medical exam, drug screen, and TLC-approved driving course. Drivers must display their licenses in a location visible to pax. The cars must carry commercial insurance.

Other than the livery cars usually being old, worn, and creaky by the time they enter that service, I'm not sure what advantage Uber would have over them. At least in a livery cab you know up-front exactly how much the ride will cost. You can also call one using your phone. You just have to use the voice service -- you know, the one where you actually talk into the thing.

I really can't help but conclude that Uber's popularity (at least in NYC) is really based around the app. It gives people another way to use their toys phones and feel cool. And hey, more power to them. Competition is always a good thing. I do, however, think that Uber should come under the same rules as more traditional "car services" both to level the playing field and for consumer protection reasons.

As for myself, I doubt I'll ever use Uber or Lyft when I'm in New York City unless a companion is paying for the ride. Their coin, their choice. Yellow cabs and car services have worked just fine for me for a very long time. They also are cheaper than Uber in New York City; and the TLC regulation, licensing, and insurance requirements provide some measure of consumer protection.

Rich
 
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??? How are cab companies not fair to the consumer? Bad service isn't being unfair, it's pretty much the norm. But maybe you mean something else, I'm not sure.

My only point is that Uber should be required to play by the same rules.

Just playing devil's advocate . . . maybe the rules shouldn't be as archaic? I understand the insurance issue, but the service from a consumer standpoint is much better with Uber/Lyft. Aside from high-demand surcharge periods, Uber is cheaper BECAUSE they don't have the unnecessary overhead of maintenance hubs/dispatch.
 
Uber has worked very well when I've used it, and I like that I know the price up front. In an unknown city, a cabbie can easily pad the bill by taking the long way and who's to know?
 
Insurance: My automotive insurer sent a letter at renewal time for one of the vehicles this year, "reminding" me that participation in Uber/Lyft type activities was NOT covered by them, and offering to call an 800 number to add a rider for it.

I suspect folks that get injured aboard one of these vehicles will be in for a nasty surprise when they have to sue the driver to cover medical expenses, as the insurers change over to not covering it without the waiver.

That rider they are trying to sell you is completely unnecessary as Uber provides the insurance for its drivers when they are driving on Uber related business. See here

https://newsroom.uber.com/2014/02/insurance-for-uberx-with-ridesharing/

In short
$1 million of liability coverage per incident. Uber holds a commercial insurance policy with $1 million of coverage per incident. Drivers’ liability to third parties is covered from the moment a driver accepts a trip to its conclusion. This policy is expressly primary to any personal auto coverage (However it will not take precedence over any commercial auto insurance for the vehicle). We have provided a $1 million liability policy since commencing ridesharing in early 2013.
 
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That rider they are trying to sell you is completely unnecessary as Uber provides the insurance for its drivers when they are driving on Uber related business. See here

https://newsroom.uber.com/2014/02/insurance-for-uberx-with-ridesharing/

In short

Not exactly. Policies provide more than just liability protection. Mine, for example excludes coverage (if I'm taking $ for providing transportation) for liability, but also Uninsured Motorist, Medical Payments, Collision and Comprehensive losses.

So if I was an Uber driver and had an accident, Uber's policy may pay for damages I cause to someone else, but they're not paying for the damage to me or my car.
 
So if I was an Uber driver and had an accident, Uber's policy may pay for damages I cause to someone else, but they're not paying for the damage to me or my car.

Click on the link and read the description of their insurance. They provide commercial comprehensive and collision coverage for their drivers, $1000 deductible. This is contingent on your having a private comprehensive and collision policy.
 
Click on the link and read the description of their insurance. They provide commercial comprehensive and collision coverage for their drivers, $1000 deductible. This is contingent on your having a private comprehensive and collision policy.

Gulp. Thanks for the heads-up. I stand corrected.
 
Click on the link and read the description of their insurance. They provide commercial comprehensive and collision coverage for their drivers, $1000 deductible. This is contingent on your having a private comprehensive and collision policy.


Yup. The notice I received from the insurance company was not clear but it insinuates that the medical numbers are going to be the ones you end up in court for. They'd probably fix the car. The car is cheap compared to an ER trip for everyone in it.
 
The challenge (and, in my opinion, the reason the Uber model even works) is that the taxicab companies have for a very long time been creating a "walled garden" for themselves, in which they have a near-monopoly on the market. As a result, consumers (potential passengers) have to tolerate generally poor quality, and drivers are often abused.

Allow me to illustrate.

In most major markets, there are restrictions on the number of taxicabs which are allowed (often called "medallions"), which makes the barrier to entry-simply securing a medallion-very high to start with. Then, political influence is used to impose "standards" on Operators which, by their nature, make it difficult to impossible for those few owner-operators who can manage to get a medallion, to stay effectively in business.

In Dallas, taxicab regulations were passed (I believe, in the early 90s) which mandated that cabs could be no more than three years old, in the putative name of "safety." The net effect, of course, was to make it difficult to impossible for small owner-operators to stay in business, unless they operated small, uncomfortable cars. Note well: livery operators run Town Cars to 600,000 miles with enviable safety and reliability.

The taxicab companies' model is to lease a cab to a cab driver for 24-hour periods, with the cost of the lease being so high that few drivers can afford to do so without driving for most or all of the 24-hours. Remember that next time you think a-driver is a little bit rank-it may not be by choice!

Here in Dallas, we had a city Council member who was convicted of felony corruption charges as a result of his blatant influence-peddling on behalf of the dominant taxicab operating company here in Dallas. We used to have a thriving independent taxicab operator community here in Dallas, with very nice equipment (example: a custom van, Dallas Cowboys colors, steer horns on the front with a television and wet bar), and such operators often had a large book of devoted repeat clients. A taxicab owner could make a good solid living driving his cab reasonable hours, and establishing a solid base of repeat customers. Now, very few independent drivers can afford to own a taxi medallion, and they have to compete against the giant fleet of taxicabs being operated by near-desperate drivers, victims of the machine.

I am all for free enterprise, but when your "free enterprise" requires protection of ill-considered laws, it is not "free" at all.
 
??? How are cab companies not fair to the consumer? Bad service isn't being unfair, it's pretty much the norm. But maybe you mean something else, I'm not sure.

My only point is that Uber should be required to play by the same rules.

Bad service is not being fair. The rules say that if I call them from their service area then they have to come. If they don't show up it is bad service and a violation of their permit.
 
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