[NA rant] Lies on resumes

deonb

deonb

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deonb
We've given up on trying to hire actual qualified candidates and now we're just hiring people who have anything decent on their resume. Figured if they did something good in the past, we can train them for what we need. But resume after resume that we get is just lies, lies, lies. It's not even subtle.

"So you're an expert in SQL you say? Cool! What database?"
"Oracle, MySQL & SQL Server!".
"Good! Show me how to get the count of records in a table."
"Uhhh.... I don't know."

I've similarly lost count of the number of candidates who said that they're a C/C++ expert and then don't know what the stack is.

(If you don't know the above references, think about 6PC's latest spoof where he "admitted" that he didn't know what a rudder is... this is worse).

But the latest takes the cake - we told a candidate last week that we're not looking for any specific past experience - we're just testing that their resume is truthful. So he said hold on... and sent us a new copy of his resume with his lies removed.

Seriously?? How is that even a thing??

I don't remember it ever being as bad before.
 
That's why you do a thorough interview. You need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.
 
I was the President of the United States, if you'll pay me 6 figures.
 
deonb said:
We've given up on trying to hire actual qualified candidates and now we're just hiring people who have anything decent on their resume. Figured if they did something good in the past, we can train them for what we need. But resume after resume that we get is just lies, lies, lies. It's not even subtle.

"So you're an expert in SQL you say? Cool! What database?"
"Oracle, MySQL & SQL Server!".
"Good! Show me how to get the count of records in a table."
"Uhhh.... I don't know."

I've similarly lost count of the number of candidates who said that they're a C/C++ expert and then don't know what the stack is.
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At least some of this might be more due to ignorance and an overly optimistic estimation of one's abilties rather than outright lying.

I took C++ in high school for college credit, but we barely learned anything. Barely anything. Someone who doesn't know what they're talking about might think they actually know C++ at an intermediate or better level after such a class.
 
dmspilot said:
I took C++ in high school for college credit, but we barely learned anything. Barely anything. Someone who doesn't know what they're talking about might think they actually know C++ at an intermediate or better level after such a class.
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Surely you didn't classify yourself as an expert though? It's one thing to say "I know C++" - it's another thing to say "I'm an expert in it".
 
dmspilot said:
At least some of this might be more due to ignorance and an overly optimistic estimation of one's abilties rather than outright lying.

I took C++ in high school for college credit, but we barely learned anything. Barely anything. Someone who doesn't know what they're talking about might think they actually know C++ at an intermediate or better level after such a class.
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You definitely see that with the MS Office suite. People who just know how to build a basic spreadsheet in Excel and maybe add up numbers in a column and do simple sorts will consider themselves to be expert, highly knowledgeable, etc. but then they don't know how to create many formulas, don't know order of operations, how to use conditional formatting and don't know how to create a proper If-else statement, etc. Same with Word. People constantly overestimate their knowledge and abilities when it comes to computers.

I also see it all the time in aviation from both mechanics and pilots. I'd venture to say it is common in every industry.
 
deonb said:
Surely you didn't classify yourself as an expert though? It's one thing to say "I know C++" - it's another thing to say "I'm an expert in it".
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Of course not...I'm talking about other people. My point was that they might be lying or they might just be ignorant or deluded.
 
dmspilot said:
they might just be ignorant or deluded.
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I don't know if that would be better or worse...

If someone THINKs they're an expert in SQL without knowing how to run the most basic of 'select' statements, we have serious problems.
 
I can't believe people actually read resumes! Over the last 3 years or so I have sent out tons of resumes and filled out nearly as many applications in and out of my field. Basic no-skill jobs to semi-skilled jobs. No one ever responds. I only put the truth on there and I was even nice and shrunk it down to 1 page. Currently applying for jobs yet again.
 
I will agree 100%, hiring is a royal pain. I saw a recent poll that showed over 90% of people embellish their experience, and 50% admit to out right lying. The last few times we've hired, I've circular filed over half of the applicants because they don't meet even the most basic requirements, no driver license (job required), criminal history (clearance required). Why even waste our time, or theirs?
 
flhrci said:
I can't believe people actually read resumes! Over the last 3 years or so I have sent out tons of resumes and filled out nearly as many applications in and out of my field. Basic no-skill jobs to semi-skilled jobs. No one ever responds. I only put the truth on there and I was even nice and shrunk it down to 1 page. Currently applying for jobs yet again.
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Far too many companies are using automated HR systems. The software triggers on specific words, and if those words aren't on the resume, no human ever sees the resume. I've often had head hunters ask me for a resume and I ask them for the specific job posting. If the head hunter is smart, they immediately understand that I intend to write a resume for that specific position, using the specific words & phrases on the posting. Takes a lot of time, but it improves your odds. Still not a guarantee, but it helps.
 
deonb said:
But the latest takes the cake - we told a candidate last week that we're not looking for any specific past experience - we're just testing that their resume is truthful. So he said hold on... and sent us a new copy of his resume with his lies removed.

Seriously?? How is that even a thing??

I don't remember it ever being as bad before.
Click to expand...

So, did you hire him?
 
We just hire based on looks. Who cares what kind of experience you have, if you are pleasing to the eye then you are in like Flynn!

Seriously though, I am on hiring committees at work constantly, not because I care who we hire but I just enjoy reading through the resumes! There was one I will never forget a couple years ago, it was 64 pages long! He had borders on every page and had written down every single thing he had ever done every day of his life it seemed like. He had decorative borders around the decorative borders! It must have taken him a solid week to type this thing up. I wish I was allowed to keep it.
 
flhrci said:
I can't believe people actually read resumes! Over the last 3 years or so I have sent out tons of resumes and filled out nearly as many applications in and out of my field. Basic no-skill jobs to semi-skilled jobs. No one ever responds. I only put the truth on there and I was even nice and shrunk it down to 1 page. Currently applying for jobs yet again.
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Feel your pain after 6 years at one job I started applying to basic entry level stuff cause I needed a part time job, physical labor, retail, carwashing, warehouse, lawn mowing etc. Despite basically being exactly what a job posting was looking for I only heard back from one company because the manager there was hiring anybody who applied for the shift I applied for. Had so many instant declines via email or nothing at all.

On topic now. Hard to tell what a company is looking for so I think you end up with resumes that are inflated like crazy. My now current part time job in the interview all they cared about was my time as a front end manager at a grocery store when I was 18(10 years ago). Not my time handling a multi million dollar sales route with Coke, my education, time in logistics etc. Nope just some throw away experience a decade ago that I had on my resume cause I was too lazy to adjust formatting to remove what i thought was unrelated exp.
 
I touched the book once or twice. Expert.
.
What gets me more than a faulty resume, is a poorly written job ad. If you are asking for 5 years experience in a particular job, don't go writing "experience with [basic function]". Write something akin to a 5 year in the job role. If I spend a year at said job and can express honestly I have the basic experience you're asking for, then why don't you hire me.
.
I can spell DB2 and DATACOM. EXPERT! And that's what I get with basic experience.
.
Large mainframe experience for 40+ years. Don't insult me during the interview by even asking if I can do a file copy, or know how to code job control language. That proves you're clueless about the job. More true about the HR person you have to interview with first before you even see the hiring manager. He's just echoing the job ad.
 
Well, part of the issue is that there's still plenty of companies that are looking for the most desperate, talented resource willing to take a fraction of the normal pay. And you have plenty of folks willing to "fluff up" the resume to pretend they know what they're talking about. If they're good, they might even learn a few key terms to throw in during the interview.

I've turned down a few job offers because of the low offered salary (and I'm sure I'm "persona non grata" with a few of those companies after rejecting their job offers multiple times.) But I see the job posting with those companies show up regularly (almost every 3 - 6 months) when they hire someone and find out that they really don't know what they represented that they knew. I've had a HR person share that with me when trying to convince me to join their firm.

IT skills a is a huge area of fluff. Basic nested SQL queries, inability to perform (or even conceptually vocalize) code or approach to coding for a hypothetical solution, and MS Office skills that are far overstated than they really have. My favorite question is to ask a candidate to show me how to construct a pivot table in Excel from a data set, filter for the desired results, and conditionally format the results to highlight values over a certain dollar figure. I get plenty of blank stares, and the occasional candidate searching Google for a solution. I see lots of basic or average MS Office users, but very few I would consider "expert."

It's unfortunate, but folks are desperate for a job and companies are happy to hire for less. This promotes competition for the same position, and lower skilled candidates fluffing up their resume to get noticed and hope to be extended an offer.
 
deonb said:
Surely you didn't classify yourself as an expert though? It's one thing to say "I know C++" - it's another thing to say "I'm an expert in it".
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I know Karate... and a half-dozen other Japanese words.
 
murphey said:
Far too many companies are using automated HR systems. The software triggers on specific words, and if those words aren't on the resume, no human ever sees the resume. I've often had head hunters ask me for a resume and I ask them for the specific job posting. If the head hunter is smart, they immediately understand that I intend to write a resume for that specific position, using the specific words & phrases on the posting. Takes a lot of time, but it improves your odds. Still not a guarantee, but it helps.
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IOW it's as much as a pain for qualified prospective employees as it is for employers.
 
murphey said:
Far too many companies are using automated HR systems. The software triggers on specific words, and if those words aren't on the resume, no human ever sees the resume. I've often had head hunters ask me for a resume and I ask them for the specific job posting. If the head hunter is smart, they immediately understand that I intend to write a resume for that specific position, using the specific words & phrases on the posting. Takes a lot of time, but it improves your odds. Still not a guarantee, but it helps.
Click to expand...

Those things drive me nuts. I was told by recruiters at career fairs (at college) that I was exactly what they were looking for. Got on-campus interviews. Was told again I was exactly what they were looking for and all I needed to do was upload my resume to their system to get hired (already applied to 20+ jobs with that same company). I have family members working for the company. I tailored my resume to the exact posting I interviewed for. And.... nothing. I never once heard back from that large aerospace OEM. 5 years later (with a good job that I actually like) and I'm still bitter about it, haha. I guess it all works out, but I hate those programs reading resumes. I much prefer applying to (and have had better luck at) small companies where I can call and be directed to HR or the company owner.
 
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I had a guy say he was brilliant with ODBC.

So, what does that entail?

"Sometimes they get disconnected and I connect them back up."

NEXT!
 
flhrci said:
I can't believe people actually read resumes! Over the last 3 years or so I have sent out tons of resumes and filled out nearly as many applications in and out of my field. Basic no-skill jobs to semi-skilled jobs. No one ever responds. I only put the truth on there and I was even nice and shrunk it down to 1 page. Currently applying for jobs yet again.
Click to expand...

You're probably not getting any responses because you're not lying enough on your resume! ;)

murphey said:
Far too many companies are using automated HR systems. The software triggers on specific words, and if those words aren't on the resume, no human ever sees the resume. I've often had head hunters ask me for a resume and I ask them for the specific job posting. If the head hunter is smart, they immediately understand that I intend to write a resume for that specific position, using the specific words & phrases on the posting. Takes a lot of time, but it improves your odds. Still not a guarantee, but it helps.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if people are fluffing their resumes with stuff trying to get it past the automated filters hoping that they can talk the interviewer into giving them a job offer despite not being very qualified for the position. That could cause the problem the OP is seeing.
 
Well, I do see a bit of the usual fluff on accountant resumes, but it's generally the same "creative writing" that everyone does in order to sell themselves.

Despite what someone may throw on a resume, I'm generally pretty adept at cutting through the bull to find out if the candidate knows what they claim, and have the skills needed for the job. My employer doesn't generally use HR on interviews for our department, so we don't have to play the multiple-interview game unless we're down to a couple of top candidates and want to involve other department heads to get a different viewpoint.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
midwestpa24 said:
I will agree 100%, hiring is a royal pain. I saw a recent poll that showed over 90% of people embellish their experience, and 50% admit to out right lying. The last few times we've hired, I've circular filed over half of the applicants because they don't meet even the most basic requirements, no driver license (job required), criminal history (clearance required). Why even waste our time, or theirs?
Click to expand...

Reading resumes can sometimes be entertaining. We constantly get resumes for a pilot position from pilots just out of flight school, or flight instructors that want to get out of instructing quickly, all less than 1000 hours. We need at least 2500 hours plus the ATP.

The strangest one had a comment in it that stated, "I have 500 hours but fly like a 1000 hour pilot." :confused::confused: What the #%&@! does that mean..??
 
murphey said:
Far too many companies are using automated HR systems. The software triggers on specific words, and if those words aren't on the resume, no human ever sees the resume. I've often had head hunters ask me for a resume and I ask them for the specific job posting. If the head hunter is smart, they immediately understand that I intend to write a resume for that specific position, using the specific words & phrases on the posting. Takes a lot of time, but it improves your odds. Still not a guarantee, but it helps.
Click to expand...

The head hunters these days are especially a problem. They used to be pretty diligent in never sending me a completely unqualified candidate. But those days are over. I think with Social Media and YouTube candidates have figured out how to sufficiently BS their way past head hunter & HR interviews. But they can't even get 15 minutes into a technical interview, so not sure what on earth they're thinking.

Why don't they just spend that time and energy instead in actually learning a useful skill?

When I was in high school we were a whole club of kids who were coding for fun - Pascal, C, dBase, TASM, Clarion, Basic - whatever. Any one of us would have been able at that time to code circles around even the best candidate I've seen last year. What happened to THOSE kids? Well not the adults, but were is the next generation of socially maladjusted kids who spends their youth combing through instruction set manuals??
 
deonb said:
. . . but were is the next generation of socially maladjusted kids who spends their youth combing through instruction set manuals??
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That's what I did, I was always reading. My instruction sets were Chilton's manuals for my truck. What the devil do you mean by "instruction set manuals"? I've moved from working with my hands to supervising people who work with their hands, with a detour through a cubicle for a while. This is much more fun!
 
midlifeflyer said:
IOW it's as much as a pain for qualified prospective employees as it is for employers.
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Yup. I probably spend at least a couple hours on the resume and another hour on the cover letter. This is after a spend more time online researching the company to see if I even want to work there. If the posting mentions foosball, Forget it. I'm there to work, to get the product out the door, not spend Friday afternoons at the baseball game.
 
Hank S said:
That's what I did, I was always reading. My instruction sets were Chilton's manuals for my truck. What the devil do you mean by "instruction set manuals"? I've moved from working with my hands to supervising people who work with their hands, with a detour through a cubicle for a while. This is much more fun!
Click to expand...

An instruction set manual contains all of the instructions that a Computer Processor can perform, and how to use them. I guess they would be the equivalent to a Chilton manual in terms of complexity.

Small example:
http://www.atmel.com/images/Atmel-0856-AVR-Instruction-Set-Manual.pdf

Real example:
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/ww...r-instruction-set-reference-manual-325383.pdf
 
We see the same crap. We've terminated interviews in the first phone call but once in a while they squeak past that screening and I've seen a person who was asking basic questions get so frustrated they walked out of the interview, saying "This is a waste of my time.", it was that bad.

Kinda sped up the social niceties at the end, that's for sure. ;)

The company also hired and then recently fired a guy who talked a bunch of stuff constantly but didn't get anything assigned accomplished in six months.

Then we started digging into what he actually did, and it's a disaster.

The job was intended to be semi-autonomous but nobody noticed what a mess he was making.

We will be cleaning up what he did for at least six months. Ugh. Oh and we decided not to backfill the position externally, filled it with two interested people internally each half time, and they'll hire a full timer in that group instead.
 
Sounds to me like all you computer folks are a bunch of snobby know it alls! Rough crowd I guess. Remember, you used to be that guy once.
 
deonb said:
When I was in high school we were a whole club of kids who were coding for fun - Pascal, C, dBase, TASM, Clarion, Basic - whatever. Any one of us would have been able at that time to code circles around even the best candidate I've seen last year. What happened to THOSE kids? Well not the adults, but were is the next generation of socially maladjusted kids who spends their youth combing through instruction set manuals??
Click to expand...

Computers aren't cool anymore--at least not in the sense they used to be--now that everyone and their brother has one in their pocket.
 
I worked for a software outfit where HR simply collected resumes, arranged campus visits, etc. We reviewed candidate's resumes, told HR who to schedule for interviews. Next time HR was involved was when we told them who to make offers to. Anyway, minimizing HR involvement worked great, especially keeping them out of the screening and interviewing process.

We got a little nonsense from HR about the "risk" of non-HR pros doing interviews without HR attending, but that was bogus - we had a one page sheet of "does" and "don'ts" that mitigated that. . .
 
The one I've been seeing a lot of lately that drives me nuts is the rambling answer to a direct question to avoid answering any more questions. I've gotten good at being rude to keep them on track and if they don't get the hint I don't waste my time finishing the interview...which seems to be happening more and more. I think the agencies are suggesting they do that. If you're not able to get through an hour interview without noticing you are annoying me and stop doing it, I don't want to work with you.
 
I worked with a guy who lied on his resume. Said he had all these certificates and experiences but through various sources we found out not one of them was true. At this time his job didn't require any certain things but they were on his resume and he bragged about them. He ended up getting promoted to a position that does require a degree. Don't think anyone except his old coworkers know. Oh, he also borrowed a friends airplane and flew to another state. He didn't have any pilot certificates.
 
Z06_Mir said:
I worked with a guy who lied on his resume. Said he had all these certificates and experiences but through various sources we found out not one of them was true. At this time his job didn't require any certain things but they were on his resume and he bragged about them. He ended up getting promoted to a position that does require a degree. Don't think anyone except his old coworkers know. Oh, he also borrowed a friends airplane and flew to another state. He didn't have any pilot certificates.
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Was he barefooted..???
 
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