[NA] Motorcycle advice

[wabower]

Did I misread your post about not owning a car?

Mine is from that wonderful historical period we all call 1983, and sports an opposed four cylinder 1100cc engine. Yeah, the ones now have engines bigger than the one in my car.

 

[DeeG]

BMW R50-5.

You are a bad man. If I had room, I would LOVE to have one of those.

Airheads currently in the stable:

1973 R75/5 (Short wheel base)
1978 R80 w/hack
1978 R45/N

 

[DeeG]

I have never given a fat rotten hairy merde what anyone thinks of what I ride except possibly Mrs. Steingar. Possibly. Had she nixed the sport bike we might have put that one to the test. I've never given a skinny fresh bald one about it either. If a scooter fit my mission I'd' buy one (almost did). Heck, I bought a Goldwing, Honda's answer to the Caddy. Sure drives like one.

All I've ever cared about was what I want and need. Put another way, I wouldn't think much of a cardiologist who didn't buys scooter because he was afraid of what people would say about him. Personally, I think the guys who bought soft tails were cheated. They paid too much for a heavy, underperforming bike with mediocre build quality. But hey, to each his own. I think you should show up on a CBR1000rr and challenge them to a race.

I like your thinking. I'll even bet my CBR250R would win the race.

 

[DeeG]

Awww, man. I once saw an astonishing scooter with BMW badges on a Cali freeway, doing 70 mph with no trouble. Really wanted one, but apparently they stopped making it.

They're making 'scooters' again. Except this one can do a bit more than 70 mph.

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/index.html

 

[ronnieh]

Steingar, if you are going back almost 30 years then yes the GW was bad underpowered but, comparing it to the same year Harley, well you get my point. I doubt that Gary is considering a "vintage bike". Many listed here are great bikes. The BMW and Duc's are great bikes.

The reason I asked the question of "Is there a reason he does not want a big twin" is because he seemed to have some concern about what his friends think. I understand that. I have a good friend that rides a BMW. (You know what a porcupine and a BMW have in common?.... They both have pricks on them). IF, and I repeat IF you want a Harley nothing else will do. No I don't ride a Harley, well, I occasionally borrow my wifes's FLSTC but, my primary ride is not a Harley. They just do not have the performance to suit me. The wife however will not be caught dead on anything else. Started out on the 1200C and then went to the Heritage.

Gary, pick what you like, any of the listed bikes will get you to work. Is that the only reason you want a bike?

 

[Sac Arrow]

Dang! That's one FAST scooter!!!

OOPS!!! No, probably more like 45 mph is tops for that. The speedo goes to 100 kph (60 mph) but thre is no way it can reach that.

It does get about 100 mpg though.

 

[steingar]

Did I misread your post about not owning a car?

No, what I really meant was the current iteration of Goldwings have larger engines than my former car (may it rest in peace) and my wife's current car.

My convertible was destroyed when it got intimate with a jersey wall at about 70mph. The actual impact speed is difficult to calculate, though, since the car was in a violent spin at the time. First part to break in ten years? A tie rod.

 

[wabower]

Mine was 1500, they say the 1800's are even better.

No, what I really meant was the current iteration of Goldwings have larger engines than my former car (may it rest in peace) and my wife's current car.

My convertible was destroyed when it got intimate with a jersey wall at about 70mph. The actual impact speed is difficult to calculate, though, since the car was in a violent spin at the time. First part to break in ten years? A tie rod.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Steingar, are you calling a Gold Wing a "wing"? If so they have a lot more than 1100 CC engines. The current generation is 1800 CC and has about 100 HP and a very flat torque curve. The last generation which was the 1500 I would consider a little underpowered. Of course you may not be talking about a GL.

Gary, is there a reason you do not what a Harley big twin?

The GL1800 is only 100 hp? That sounds low for a modern, DOHC six cylinder engine. Heck, my 1200RT was 110 hp to the crank, and it definately wasn't overpowered, even though it is a much lighter bike.

 

[steingar]

Honda claims the HP off their 2012 model (GL1800) is 118 hp. That said, it is likely 118 throughout the power band. My 954 makes 140hp, but only at 8k rpm.

 

[jesse]

Honda claims the HP off their 2012 model (GL1800) is 118 hp. That said, it is likely 118 throughout the power band. My 954 makes 140hp, but only at 8k rpm.

There is no way it is 118 Hp disregardless of the RPM, that'd make no sense, I would guess the horsepower on a GL1800 would increase in a linear fashion with RPM up to the peak horsepower at a high-ish RPM. So it is nowhere near full power through he whole "powerband".

 

[steingar]

There is no way it is 118 Hp disregardless of the RPM, that'd make no sense, I would guess the horsepower on a GL1800 would increase in a linear fashion with RPM up to the peak horsepower at a high-ish RPM. So it is nowhere near full power through he whole "powerband".

Ride one and tell me about it.

 

[VanDy]

ill just drop this here...

thats a very flat torque line..

 

[jesse]

Ride one and tell me about it.

I have -- and I also have a good understand of horsepower, torque, and how engines work. A GL1800 has a linear powerband that outputs full HP at it's upper RPM.

Here is a dyno run of a 2009 GL1800:

http://www.ridermagazine.com/road-tests/2009-honda-gl1800-gold-wing-road-test.htm
You'll see at around 2,000 RPM it's putting out about 32HP. It doesn't reach the 100HP range at the wheel until around 5200 RPM. It has a very linear increase in horsepower with it's RPM. Perhaps that may feel to you like it outputs full power down low but it doesn't. You still need to get the engine reving to get the full power.

 

[jesse]

ill just drop this here...

thats a very flat torque line..

The flat torque line is what gives it the linear increase in horsepower with RPM.

 

[VanDy]

The flat torque line is what gives it the linear increase in horsepower with RPM.

and a feeling of constant pull, when you roll the throttle on at most any rpm.

 

[jesse]

and a feeling of constant pull, when you roll the throttle on at most any rpm.

agree -- but it most certainly doesn't output full horsepower regardless of where you are in the power band

 

[Sac Arrow]

I need to dig up a C14 power curve. It's relatively flat. Variable valve timing is the shiz nit.

 

[ronnieh]

I think the CLAIMED HP is at the crank. Around 100 at the rear wheel. As Jesse said the HP is not linear. However the torque curve is surprizingly flat even for a 6 cylinder engine. It is a typical 1800 CC boxer, water cooled engine. Nothing exotic.

 

[VanDy]

agree -- but it most certainly doesn't output full horsepower regardless of where you are in the power band

but isnt torque equivalent to the "seat of the pants feel" kinda of, sorry back to your original discussion


/rant

 

[Sac Arrow]

Certainly, a flat torque curve makes all around rideablity more enjoyable, but I have no problem dropping a couple gears and opening the throttle to get to the peak torque band when I want to get going.

 

[jesse]

but isnt torque equivalent to the "seat of the pants feel" kinda of, sorry back to your original discussion


/rant

Well there is a dramatic difference in Power (hp) (which is what gets the work done) if you increase RPM at the same torque.

If you're putting out 100 ft lbs of torque at 1,000 RPM then you're producing 19 horsepower. Power (hp) = RPM * Torque (ft lb) / 5252

If you can put out that 100 ft lbs of torque at 5,000 RPM then you're clearly going to have a lot more power, around 95 HP.

At some point if you keep increasing RPM the torque will start to fall off (different for every engine). But until that point you're going to output a lot more power which is what does WORK which is what makes you MOVE.

So people will say that something has lots of "torque" in the motorcycle world -- what they often mean is that they can feel Power come on evenly and quickly with at low RPM(s). But torque alone does not win a race, you need to get Power to the wheels.

Horsepower is the product of torque and RPM.

 

[steingar]

Perhaps I misspoke, engines are certainly not my thing. Most in-line engines give max performance, that is the max pulling power, at high RPM. That's why they were originally used for sports bikes, because they gave such heightened response when ringed out.

V-twins, like what you find in Harleys, tend to be torquier, and give a more maximal response far lower in the power curve, and peter out at higher RPM settings. I have to take this last mostly on faith from what I've been told by other bikers. My experience on V-twins is quite limited, though the ones I have ridden had far more torque at lower RPM settings than my bikes.

My Goldwing's opposed four cylinder engine gives a surprisingly even power output throughout the power band. It is neither torquey at low RPM nor terribly responsive at high RPM, just very, very even. It is also the smoothest engine I've ever ridden. I imagine the six cylinder engines work similarly. 1.8 liter six cylinder engines.

For comparison, Mrs Steingar's Honda fit sports a 1.5 liter in-line four that delvers 118 hp at 6600 rpm. My convertible had a 1.8 liter engine capable of delivering about 140 hp. Oh well, the new gold wings come with airbags.

The ones made in Japan. They all used to be made just down the street from me. Mine was.

 

[ronnieh]

The V twin generally is a long stroke engine thus getting a lot of the torque from the mechanical advantage of the stroke. My particular engine has a 4.25 inch stroke and a 4 inch bore. Due to piston speed it operates at a much lower RPM than an inline four with a very short stroke. The GL has such a flat torque curve partly due to six cylinders. You have 3 power pulses per revolution instead of just one as in a V twin.

Todays GL's either the 1500 or especially the 1800 shares little with the vintage 1100, mostly just the name Honda. Today's GL uses essentially a water cooled automotive engine stuck in a frame. The big air cooled
V twins use 1930's technology with a few improvements in ignition and fuel delivery. Apples to oranges.

 

[steingar]

Todays GL's either the 1500 or especially the 1800 shares little with the vintage 1100, mostly just the name Honda. Today's GL uses essentially a water cooled automotive engine stuck in a frame.

Forgive me, but my vintage Wing features a liquid cooled opposed four cylinder engine. Could you specify out of which car the current Goldwing Engine originates, and how it differs from mine other than added displacement and cylinders?

 

[jesse]

Forgive me, but my vintage Wing features a liquid cooled opposed four cylinder engine. Could you specify out of which car the current Goldwing Engine originates, and how it differs from mine other than added displacement and cylinders?

The GL1800 has:
-Two more cylinders
-Nearly 40 more horsepower
-Electronic fuel injection versus the PITA that is the carbs on the GL1100 (I've rebuilt them)
-Computer controlled ignition

They're both underpowered IMO. I did own a GL1100 for awhile when I was 16.

 

[SCCutler]

Go for a ducati multistrada, street bike performance, upright seating, can take it off road if you want, an all in one package.

Working with a client now, Ducati had to have the engine completely overhauled at around 700 miles, new piston, new cylinder, other stuff, then further grievous quality issues. They cannot be bothered to giove a rat's backside (manufacturer, not dealer).

Not happy at all.

 

[GBear286]

Working with a client now, Ducati had to have the engine completely overhauled at around 700 miles, new piston, new cylinder, other stuff, then further grievous quality issues. They cannot be bothered to giove a rat's backside (manufacturer, not dealer).

Not happy at all.

What model? Is that a lemon or does Ducati have an overall bed reputation for quality?

 

[steingar]

The GL1800 has:
-Two more cylinders
-Nearly 40 more horsepower
-Electronic fuel injection versus the PITA that is the carbs on the GL1100 (I've rebuilt them)
-Computer controlled ignition

They're both underpowered IMO. I did own a GL1100 for awhile when I was 16.

While the throttle bodies and ignition are a huge improvement (though I wouldn't call the Wing's carburetors PITA. I've rebuilt them as well, but mine are 25 and still going strong) it is still the same basic engine. I can't imagine what a 16 year old would want with a Wing. I wouldn't have even looked at one back then, and only bought one to placate my wife.

 

[jesse]

While the throttle bodies and ignition are a huge improvement (though I wouldn't call the Wing's carburetors PITA. I've rebuilt them as well, but mine are 25 and still going strong) it is still the same basic engine. I can't imagine what a 16 year old would want with a Wing. I wouldn't have even looked at one back then, and only bought one to placate my wife.

It didn't work, I could have it for cheap if I could make it work, it's been 9 or 10 years now since I got it running so I don't remember all the details. I've never enjoyed the process of removing the carbs from the boots or reinstalling them..probably much easier if you bought new boots instead of the old rotted ones that were one there..but that would have cost money

Any jap in-line four with four carbs which must be maintained and kept in sync are a major PITA compared to modern fuel injection, IMO.

 

[steingar]

It didn't work, I could have it for cheap if I could make it work, it's been 9 or 10 years now since I got it running so I don't remember all the details. I've never enjoyed the process of removing the carbs from the boots or reinstalling them..probably much easier if you bought new boots instead of the old rotted ones that were one there..but that would have cost money

Any jap in-line four with four carbs which must be maintained and kept in sync are a major PITA compared to modern fuel injection, IMO.

Won't disagree with you there. I only ever rebuilt one set of carbs, though I thought them utterly marvelous. Didn't have the proper tooling, but I kluged something together. That was long ago, and I only did it once. Now carbs get shipped off to the mechanic.

Problem with carbs is if the bike has sat for a long time, they're certain to need rebuilding. Loads easier to just replace a set of injectors, if you can get them.

 

[zaitcev]

They're making 'scooters' again. Except this one can do a bit more than 70 mph.

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/index.html

Hmm. They look very similar, but the one I encountered, I think, had a lower step-over part in front, more like classical scooters. Maybe a gray market import or something? In any case I see that Gary still hates scooters, so it's moot.

 

[Red Air Rambo]

The way kids are texting I would not ride a motorcycle on the street...my wife's been hit twice in the last year and I just saw my A&P's car after being hit 2 day's ago while being driven by his daughter...took the front right off...2 more feet and she would have been killed or maimed. She said she could see him texting as he hit her. Motorcycles are only safe offroad or in groups...sorry because I love them...just too many idiots on the road.

 

[GBear286]

I have never given a fat rotten hairy merde what anyone thinks of what I ride except possibly Mrs. Steingar. Possibly. Had she nixed the sport bike we might have put that one to the test. I've never given a skinny fresh bald one about it either. If a scooter fit my mission I'd' buy one (almost did). Heck, I bought a Goldwing, Honda's answer to the Caddy. Sure drives like one.

All I've ever cared about was what I want and need. Put another way, I wouldn't think much of a cardiologist who didn't buys scooter because he was afraid of what people would say about him. Personally, I think the guys who bought soft tails were cheated. They paid too much for a heavy, underperforming bike with mediocre build quality. But hey, to each his own. I think you should show up on a CBR1000rr and challenge them to a race.

So your mission requires a 954? You get the scooter. I won't have one.

Steingar, if you are going back almost 30 years then yes the GW was bad underpowered but, comparing it to the same year Harley, well you get my point. I doubt that Gary is considering a "vintage bike". Many listed here are great bikes. The BMW and Duc's are great bikes.

The reason I asked the question of "Is there a reason he does not want a big twin" is because he seemed to have some concern about what his friends think. I understand that. I have a good friend that rides a BMW. (You know what a porcupine and a BMW have in common?.... They both have pricks on them). IF, and I repeat IF you want a Harley nothing else will do. No I don't ride a Harley, well, I occasionally borrow my wifes's FLSTC but, my primary ride is not a Harley. They just do not have the performance to suit me. The wife however will not be caught dead on anything else. Started out on the 1200C and then went to the Heritage.

Gary, pick what you like, any of the listed bikes will get you to work. Is that the only reason you want a bike?

I'm looking for something that is a lot of fun to ride. It's not as much a keep up with the other guys as Steingar believes. After reading these posts I am looking at:

Triumph Bonneville or Speedmaster
Harley Dyna or Softail
Ducati Monster
Triumph Adventure or Roadster
BMW (one of several)
Suzuki V-Strom
Honda NC700X

I may actually get a traditional bike (HD or Classic Triumph) and a more modern bike like the Ducati or BMW. I have some property for sale and I can spit the proceeds with my wife and still have plenty for a second motorcycle. I can get any one of the bikes listed above with what I have saved so far.

The list keeps getting longer, Included the Honda from the next post

 

[DeeG]

For comparison, Mrs Steingar's Honda fit sports a 1.5 liter in-line four that delvers 118 hp at 6600 rpm. My convertible had a 1.8 liter engine capable of delivering about 140 hp.

Bought a Honda NC700X last month. it comes with half of a Fit engine. Danged thing runs smooth as silk, practically zero vibration. Well thought out and practical machine. Spouse has put just shy of 6000 miles on it since 8/1. Nice performance, great commute bike, and it gets better mileage than any of the 250's we have.

New NC with an NT. Lolo Pass Rd, west slope of Mt Hood in the background.

 

[steingar]

So your mission requires a 954? You get the scooter. I won't have one.

What I want and need. Wanted a sport bike. I've always wanted a sport bike. I was actually going to buy a scooter. Wouldn't bother me in the slightest, things look like a blast.

Good luck in your search, I hope you get what you want. Hey, you're a respected physician, you deserve it.

 

[steingar]

The way kids are texting I would not ride a motorcycle on the street...my wife's been hit twice in the last year and I just saw my A&P's car after being hit 2 day's ago while being driven by his daughter...took the front right off...2 more feet and she would have been killed or maimed. She said she could see him texting as he hit her. Motorcycles are only safe offroad or in groups...sorry because I love them...just too many idiots on the road.

I have said this over and over, and I will repeat it once more because it bears repeating. Motorcycles are invisible to all motorists except a very few who will see and actively try to murder them. Yes, I see people texting, putting on makeup, and doing all sorts of utterly stupid things on the road. Head on a swivel, situational awareness is everything. One of the reasons I ride a liter sport bike is because with one quick twist of the throttle I can get away.

Drivers are getting worse, way worse. I'm still here.

 

[GBear286]

What I want and need. Wanted a sport bike. I've always wanted a sport bike. I was actually going to buy a scooter. Wouldn't bother me in the slightest, things look like a blast.

Good luck in your search, I hope you get what you want. Hey, you're a respected physician, you deserve it.

I don't need a motorcycle to get to work. I have a Chevy Avalanche, Jeep Wrangler and a Subaru Impreza for basic transportation. I have very little time for fun so why not ride to work in the good weather months? Thanks for all of the advice from all who have posted in this thread. I will start researching my options and this has provided a good starting point. I welcome any additional comments from other riders.

 

[Anthony]

It is ashame Buell is no longer in business. That may give you the best of both worlds. Maybe a used one?

 

[steingar]

I don't need a motorcycle to get to work. I have a Chevy Avalanche, Jeep Wrangler and a Subaru Impreza for basic transportation. I have very little time for fun so why not ride to work in the good weather months? Thanks for all of the advice from all who have posted in this thread. I will start researching my options and this has provided a good starting point. I welcome any additional comments from other riders.

Actually, I emboldened the wrong word. Bikes are what I want. Heck, I walk to work, I don't need much of anything.

Bike is what you want, says me go for it. Heck, if you want a Harley dripping with chrome doodads enjoy, it's still a motorcycle. You only live once. Those Triumphs are pretty, too.

Buell is still in business, though right now they only make pretty high end race bikes. I just rode one the other day, it was OK. Very strange bikes. I like my 954 way better.