[NA] Incompetence is annoying

[txflyer]

I pretty much never expect good customer service anywhere except out of Ace or a few smaller stores. Even Tractor Supply has gone 'corporate' on it's help level. If you think hardware is fun, try finding anyone who really knows anything about farming or ranching.

My eyes glaze over when I get a person that really doesn't know **** from shinola about anything, except maybe an X-box. The older guys or sometimes younger guys or gals who know the store, and know a little about construction, are golden if you can find them.

So it's a toss up everywhere. Wish I had bought AZO stock right after the crash.

 

[Herman vanOoijen]

I'm the opposite, I just don't give them my business. If a store doesn't understand customer service, I don't support that store either with my money or time teaching them their job.

I agree with you, but sometimes there is no alternative and I want to finish my project.

 

[RJM62]

My experience is the more oddball an item is, the more likely Local Store has it and less likely HD or Lowes has it. HD and Lowes don't have a business model that relies on stocking low-volume/slow moving parts. They try and stock the parts that move the most $$$$ per square foot per month.

In addition, I've found the big-name stores to be more likely to have one of two parts that must go together if either is to be of any use, but not the other part. I have had this happen over and over again, especially with regard to plumbing and electrical supplies. And to add insult to injury, half the time they'll try to convince you that the part they don't have doesn't exist -- even if you brought one with you and have it in your hand.

The local guys are almost always better. There's a family-owned place by me that's a True-Value franchise, but definitely the biggest one I've ever been in. It's just a bit smaller than the average Home Depot. Most of the employees have been there forever, so I suspect they're paid and treated well. They also bend over backwards to help you out when you need help, but leave you alone when you don't. And don't even think about carrying something heavy out to the car by yourself. They'll tackle you to the ground if they have to to prevent that from happening.

Better yet, the store has everything. I've never walked out of there without whatever the thing was that I went there to buy.

Their posted prices are a bit higher than HD or Lowes. That's literally the price you pay for customer service. But if you want to buy a whole lot of something (lumber, etc.), they'll usually drop the price for you.

-Rich

 

[KRyan]

I'll second Rich's comments about the local stores. I was working on some kind of project last year. I can't remember what it was, but I needed something like a Christmas tree stand.

Where can you get a Christmas tree stand in July? I went up to True Value, told them what I needed, and the guy took me WAY in the back into a storage building that had a lot of Christmas items in it, and we found a stand. He spent at least a half hour looking for it for a $14 sale.

 

[Henning]

I'm lucky with having a great local hardware store right down the street that even carries a lot of marine gear.

 

[SCCutler]

Anybody that goes into a DIY Big Box Store looking for Customer Service is a poor navigator.

If you want service, you go to the full-service plumbing supply store or the local True-Value / Ace Hardware. HD and Lowes are not designed to provide service, they are designed to provide lower prices and a lawsuit free investment for their shareholders.


I always forget to go to True Value and get surprised when I walk in and they ask if they can help me. I tell them I need a left-handed widget with fine threads and they say "Aisle 12, 2/3's of the way down on the left, second shelf from the bottom, would you like me to escort you?"

You pay more, but you are in and out in 5 minutes instead of the 30 minutes at Home Depot.

This is it, in a nutshell - the reason I trade with the locals whenever possible.

 

[JoseCuervo]

We have a plumbing and electrical supply store in town that has one of those old "Take a Number" machines with the paper tickets.

When you walk in, you grab the ticket, and then try to find the parts on your own. Invariably, your number will get called while you are still trying to figure out what parts you need.

You then have a dedicated service rep, with experience, that stays with you until you get all of your parts, know how to put them together, and remind you to get the Teflon Tape or the correct size wire nuts.

I have had them draw a complete electrical panel box and the circuits, switches, outlets for a garage, including the correct size breakers for the panel. It costs more than Home Depot, but, my time is sometimes valuable.

 

[SoloEqs]

It's not just Home Despot or Lowe's(t).

I was at Wally World a couple of weeks ago, and asked to have a loaf of Italian bread sliced. The guy in the bakery said he couldn't do that, because it had sesame seeds on it, and "someone might be allergic."

Rather than argue, I walked away from a basket full of stuff for my overnight trip. If I couldn't get everything that I needed, I couldn't use any of it.

The funny thing is that I have bought Italian bread at that same store about half a dozen times, and each time they sliced it for me.

 

[us AAirways]

Why go to the box store then? With what they pay, you can't expect them to have good help, they're lucky if they have people that show up. Ace hardware in your neighborhood typically has good help and the products you need. If you keep supporting the stores that **** you off, you will continue to get ****ed off by the stores you support. Maybe it's worth the dollar you save to you, but then don't come ranting, there are options to the big box stores still, but they won't last forever if you keep going to the box store to save a dollar.

I find it sadly comical how the consumers in this country have destroyed good businesses to make crappy businesses wealthy then complain about the result, all to save themselves a dollar or two.

Like the airlines. People complain about the service, but then go online to find the cheapest ticket possible.


I worked at Menard's. Which is like HD but smaller and based in the midwest. Workers were automatically fired if they were caught using their cell on the sales floor.

The big box stores are just looking for a body that is willing to work their schedule for the pay that they offer. We had a person promoted to manager of our plumbing department who knew nothing about plumbing at all.

I worked in plumbing and cut pipe (copper and pvc) for customers all the time. Including a lady that wanted 125 different size cuts of pvc for an art project.

 

[Henning]

Like the airlines. People complain about the service, but then go online to find the cheapest ticket possible.

What would be comical there if it weren't so annoyingly disgusting is that the cheapest ticket is not always the cheapest trip once you count all the "extras" you have to pay at the airport and on the flight. Tha airline industry really needs to be re regulated if just to standardize advertised pricing as apples to apples.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

At 7.50 an hour you probably are not going to get a real enthusiastic sales person.

 

[CJones]

There is a vacant Ace Hardware building about 3 miles from my house (was vacated before I moved to the area). The other Ace that I used to go to went under despite my best attempts to buy from them as often as possible.

Unfortunately, there just aren't any local hardware stores in my geographic area anymore.

My wife worked at an Ace Hardware store for the first few years that we were married. She was one of the "Aisle 3, about halfway down, left side, about waist high" person and she was good at it.

So I think I deserve the right to b*tch about poor service at big box, because I have made my best attempt to support he local shops.

What's really disappointing about the scenario in my OP is that it wasn't like I was asking for complicated wiring diagrams, or custom-ordered cabinets - I just wanted someone with a d*mn hacksaw. They didn't even have to USE the hacksaw, just show me where it was!

 

[Henning]

There is a vacant Ace Hardware building about 3 miles from my house (was vacated before I moved to the area). The other Ace that I used to go to went under despite my best attempts to buy from them as often as possible.

Unfortunately, there just aren't any local hardware stores in my geographic area anymore.

My wife worked at an Ace Hardware store for the first few years that we were married. She was one of the "Aisle 3, about halfway down, left side, about waist high" person and she was good at it.

So I think I deserve the right to b*tch about poor service at big box, because I have made my best attempt to support he local shops.

What's really disappointing about the scenario in my OP is that it wasn't like I was asking for complicated wiring diagrams, or custom-ordered cabinets - I just wanted someone with a d*mn hacksaw. They didn't even have to USE the hacksaw, just show me where it was!

If you wanted custom cabinets, you would have been assisted right away, those guys are on commission.

 

[RJM62]

What would be comical there if it weren't so annoyingly disgusting is that the cheapest ticket is not always the cheapest trip once you count all the "extras" you have to pay at the airport and on the flight. Tha airline industry really needs to be re regulated if just to standardize advertised pricing as apples to apples.

 

[timwinters]

I worked at Menard's. Which is like HD but smaller and based in the midwest. Workers were automatically fired if they were caught using their cell on the sales floor.

Menard's, by comparison, is Great! One can almost always find someone to help and (most of the time) they actually know what they're talking about. They opened one here a couple of years ago. Haven't been back to the local Lowe's since...no HD in this area (thankfully).

It's not just Home Despot or Lowe's(t).

I was at Wally World a couple of weeks ago...

I can't count how many times I've said loudly as I'm walking empty handed out of the door at Home Depot, "it's really hard to make wal*mart look like a customer service oriented company but you guys excel at it."

 

[ron22]

I was at HD with a friend we had a cart loaded with plywood. I told him to watch out because the employees were "working" in the isle. Ok 3 or 4 were just standing there talking.
He looked the other way and pushed the cart straight at them. The looks he got for making then move for a customer were not very nice
It was hard not to laugh.

 

[JGoodish]

Why go to the box store then? With what they pay, you can't expect them to have good help, they're lucky if they have people that show up. Ace hardware in your neighborhood typically has good help and the products you need. If you keep supporting the stores that **** you off, you will continue to get ****ed off by the stores you support. Maybe it's worth the dollar you save to you, but then don't come ranting, there are options to the big box stores still, but they won't last forever if you keep going to the box store to save a dollar.

I find it sadly comical how the consumers in this country have destroyed good businesses to make crappy businesses wealthy then complain about the result, all to save themselves a dollar or two.

Well, guess what? The big box stores provide better prices, are more flexible, and provide better service. I live in PA union country, and with very few exceptions, can't get a local mom and pop to do even half of what Lowe's, Home Depot, Walmart, or Costco will do for me. You want what? We don't carry it. You want to order it? We don't want to do that. You want to return it? Well, you opened it, so no. You need something at 8pm on a Tuesday? Well, we closed at 5pm and won't reopen until 9am tomorrow, when you're at work. And about that credit card you just pulled out of your wallet, we don't accept it. Oh, and by the way, we charge more than the big box stores and, if you're lucky, are only marginally more competent.

I've made a concerted effort over the years to PREFER local businesses, and most of the time they've done an excellent job of demonstrating why they're struggling. It isn't the big box stores shutting them down, it's their own stubborn refusal to compete with the big box stores for business.

As for pay, the mom and pops do not and never did pay any more than a big box, but they offer significantly less potential for the ambitious employee. An entry level job can only support an entry level wage, no matter who's doing the hiring. If you don't like the wage, don't suck at your job, and maybe you can move up to a higher paying job in the future. The problem isn't the wage, it's the entitlement mentality that decides it's easier to lobby the government into forcing employers to provide higher wages in return for minimal effort on the part of the employee. Getting out of bed and to work on time doesn't even qualify for minimal effort, and that's something that many people these days can't even manage to accomplish on a consistent basis. We have gas stations around here that pay way above minimum wage, PLUS BENEFITS, and still can't get enough people to show up and stick around.


JKG

 

[ClimbnSink]

Some of the country low competition mom and pop places super suck. Small hardware stores can thrive next to a box if they are worthwhile.

 

[Norman]

I can't count how many times I've said loudly as I'm walking empty handed out of the door at Home Depot, "it's really hard to make wal*mart look like a customer service oriented company but you guys excel at it."

Wal Mart and customer service in the same sentence: Oxymoron.

 

[Dan Thomas]

My 77-year-old uncle works part-time at a Home Despot, in the tool rental department. When he started there he found boxfuls of broken power tools, and when things were a little slow he fixed them all and put them back to work. When some tools showed weaknesses (like plastic triggers that would break) he would machine a metal one at home and get it going, then make those parts for all of the same tools before they broke. The tool reps would come in and see these things and take pictures to send back to the factory to show them what people had to do to keep their stuff going.

So, one day an HD across the city needed a rental guy for a few days, so they sent my uncle over. He fixed all THEIR broken stuff in a couple of days, and so started a fight between two store managers--one trying to retain him, the other trying to steal him. He got a decent wage increase out of it.

It just highlights the lost work ethic and lack of mechanical skills in the retail workforce as a whole. When a store has to try to snag a 77-year-old to get stuff done...

Dan

 

[Alexb2000]

My 77-year-old uncle works part-time at a Home Despot, in the tool rental department. When he started there he found boxfuls of broken power tools, and when things were a little slow he fixed them all and put them back to work. When some tools showed weaknesses (like plastic triggers that would break) he would machine a metal one at home and get it going, then make those parts for all of the same tools before they broke. The tool reps would come in and see these things and take pictures to send back to the factory to show them what people had to do to keep their stuff going.

So, one day an HD across the city needed a rental guy for a few days, so they sent my uncle over. He fixed all THEIR broken stuff in a couple of days, and so started a fight between two store managers--one trying to retain him, the other trying to steal him. He got a decent wage increase out of it.

It just highlights the lost work ethic and lack of mechanical skills in the retail workforce as a whole. When a store has to try to snag a 77-year-old to get stuff done...

Dan

Men like your uncle are the bedrock of this nation. Those are the skills that won a world war and gave all of us decades of prosperity. Even so, I bet he doesn't think he's doing anything special.:wink2:

Thanks for sharing.

 

[timwinters]

My 77-year-old uncle works part-time at a Home Despot, in the tool rental department. When he started there he found boxfuls of broken power tools, and when things were a little slow he fixed them all and put them back to work. When some tools showed weaknesses (like plastic triggers that would break) he would machine a metal one at home and get it going, then make those parts for all of the same tools before they broke. The tool reps would come in and see these things and take pictures to send back to the factory to show them what people had to do to keep their stuff going.

So, one day an HD across the city needed a rental guy for a few days, so they sent my uncle over. He fixed all THEIR broken stuff in a couple of days, and so started a fight between two store managers--one trying to retain him, the other trying to steal him. He got a decent wage increase out of it.

It just highlights the lost work ethic and lack of mechanical skills in the retail workforce as a whole. When a store has to try to snag a 77-year-old to get stuff done...

Dan

That's a great story.

 

[RJM62]

Wal Mart and customer service in the same sentence: Oxymoron.

Wal-Mart discourages their employees from spending too much time helping any one customer. On several occasions when I received truly exceptional service from Wal-Mart employees, and told them I was going to call the company to heap praise upon them, they asked me not to because it would only get them in trouble.

-Rich

 

[JGoodish]

Wal-Mart discourages their employees from spending too much time helping any one customer. On several occasions when I received truly exceptional service from Wal-Mart employees, and told them I was going to call the company to heap praise upon them, they asked me not to because it would only get them in trouble.

-Rich

Not only is that inconsistent with Walmart's heritage, but I haven't found it to be especially true in most of the Walmart locations that I've visited. That isn't to say that Walmart employees have always gone out of their way to be helpful, but there may have been something else going on with the employee in your particular situation.


JKG

 

[poadeleted21]

My 77-year-old uncle works part-time at a Home Despot, in the tool rental department. When he started there he found boxfuls of broken power tools, and when things were a little slow he fixed them all and put them back to work. When some tools showed weaknesses (like plastic triggers that would break) he would machine a metal one at home and get it going, then make those parts for all of the same tools before they broke. The tool reps would come in and see these things and take pictures to send back to the factory to show them what people had to do to keep their stuff going.

So, one day an HD across the city needed a rental guy for a few days, so they sent my uncle over. He fixed all THEIR broken stuff in a couple of days, and so started a fight between two store managers--one trying to retain him, the other trying to steal him. He got a decent wage increase out of it.

It just highlights the lost work ethic and lack of mechanical skills in the retail workforce as a whole. When a store has to try to snag a 77-year-old to get stuff done...

Dan

This fella I struck up a conversation with at the local hamburger joint told me he enjoyed computer programming. After some discussion, I figured out that he had picked up a MASM book at yard sale and 100% of his knowledge with computer programming was gleaned from a 20 year old book on MASM. MASM is the "Microsoft Assembler". This would be like attempting to build a house with an acre of trees and a butter knife. Anyway, I got to talking to him. He was mid 70's on his lunch break. Apparently he was the only guy at the seed company next door who knew how to keep the seed bagging machine running. He guessed he had quit 5 times but they kept calling him back and making the deal sweeter each time.

 

[RJM62]

Not only is that inconsistent with Walmart's heritage, but I haven't found it to be especially true in most of the Walmart locations that I've visited. That isn't to say that Walmart employees have always gone out of their way to be helpful, but I suspect that there may have been something else going on in your particular situation.


JKG

Well, I'll tell you the most recent situation.

I bought a Boost phone for someone I'm helping out who's down on her luck. I wanted it activated before I mailed it to her, mainly so I could put some money on it for her. I also was in a hurry because I wanted to get to the post office before it closed.

I explained the situation and asked the girl in Electronics if they had a computer with Internet access I could use to do the activation. She said they didn't, but that she'd activate it for me. (There's a way to do it right from the phone itself, but I didn't know how.)

So she had me buy the payment cards, and then she activated the phone, gave me the number, and applied the additional payment cards to the number. It took maybe 10 minutes. When I told her she'd gone above and beyond and that I was going to put a good word in for her, she asked me not to. Apparently the only prepaid phones they're allowed to activate are Straight Talk phones.

Another time, an employee went out of his way trying to find a particular jacket in my size. The inventory showed they had several, but there were none on the rack. It took him quite a while in the warehouse (or wherever they store these things), but he finally found one. Same deal. He asked me not to call the office because they didn't like him spending that much time on one sale.

It could just be the store I was in. Both of these experiences were at the same store.

-Rich

 

[JGoodish]

It could just be the store I was in. Both of these experiences were at the same store.

-Rich

I don't have much knowledge of Walmart's internal policies, but I have noticed that the quality of management seems to vary widely from store to store. The quality of management can have a significant impact on employee morale and customer satisfaction, and unfortunately in most companies much of the management talent isn't so talented.

My local Walmart is about the worst Walmart I've ever experienced, but they are a very high volume store. I've found very helpful employees there, along with those who don't seem to give a hoot. One apparent Walmart policy that really gets under my skin is their refusal to price match their own web site. I can order a product on Walmart.com via same day Site-to-Store (they pull it off the shelf), and go pick it up in the back of the store for one price, but if I pull it off the shelf and take it to the register myself, they won't price match the web site. So I often pay less if I order on the web site and have store employees shop for me.


JKG

 

[Everskyward]

My local Walmart is about the worst Walmart I've ever experienced, but they are a very high volume store.

My local Walmart is the best Walmart I have experienced but it is a very low volume store. When they built it I was skeptical they would draw enough business because the town is very small even though it's on the far outskirts of Denver. But they are still around after 2 or 3 years. I recently bought some paint there and the guy who mixed it was quite helpful.

 

[Tom-D]

They know me buy name at ACE, but I don't have any problems at Loews or Home Depot either.

 

[Norman]

I once got great service from the local Verizon store. I needed an antenna for a Motorola Startac (remember them?). Guy told me he couldn't sell me one because the computer said there were none in stock. But, he said there were two in the back room. Gave them to me for free.

 

[timwinters]

Well, by god, if there were none in stock then he couldn't possibly charge you for them!

My local (independently owned) Verizon store is great also. I bought a couple if six month old Droid Razrs about a year ago---Since I'm grandfathered on an unlimited data plan I can't get discounted equipment through Verizon---and I got these for about 1/2 of what an unsubsidized new one cost at the time, about the same price as a subsidized new one.

They installed SIM cards in both and spent about an hour setting them up and transferring all the contact info to them. Charged me zero. So, anytime I need chargers, cases or accessories, I stop by. Sure, I could find it cheaper online but these are good people.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

I really got a dose of reality when I went into our local Radio Shack, asked for solder wick, and got three blank stares....

 

[DaleB]

I really got a dose of reality when I went into our local Radio Shack, asked for solder wick, and got three blank stares....

Yeah, I can tell you haven't been inside a Battery & Cell Phone Shack in a while.

 

[MAKG1]

I really got a dose of reality when I went into our local Radio Shack, asked for solder wick, and got three blank stares....

That's nothing new. They started doing that when they began selling TRaSh-80s, well before cell phones.

I've gone in there looking for 1-watt high resistance resistors, for circuits vulnerable to engine heat. You would think I had just stepped off the ship from Mars.

 

[kgruber]

I received superb service at Walmart recently.

I went over to sporting goods and asked the young man about .22LR cartridges. They, of course, didn't have any. So I went over to the oil isle and checked out Mobile 1 prices.

I was just about ready look for my wife down when the young Walmart man tracked me down, showing up with a brick of Winchester M-22s that had just come in.

BTW, I'm starting a side business of selling .22LR at $1.00/cartridge plus shipping.

 

[docmirror]

There was a time at HD when the empl were instructed to take the customer to the aisle they asked about, and point to the product. I can remember it because it shocked me so much. This was an effort to knock down Lowe's as they started to grow into HD business. The first few times it happened I was surprised, and kind of liked it. After a few years, that policy changed, and with the change in policy the entire customer service breakdown started. It was kind of slow decline, but it surely happened to the point now where it's hard to get anything done in HD.

I bought some wood blinds there and the box says "trimmed professionally to fit your windows!". So, I bought them, and had the measurements and the guy that did the trimming couldn't run the saw right. He was baffled by all the safety interlocks and had to call someone else over. They took my measurements, set up the saw, and were going to cut about 2" off ONE END of the wood blinds. I stopped them and said 'hey guys, I know this is hard, but I want them symmetrical, so you need to cut both ends one inch'. You would have thought I was holding them up for ransom. I pointed to the words "professionally" on the display, and advised them that a custom blind company would make sure the blinds were symmetrical on the cut. They did it, but weren't very happy about having to rechuck each set of blinds twice.

So, when I left I stopped by the mgrs office and had a little discussion with the 24YO 'store manager'. He seemed like he was interested, but who knows if he did anything about it. Meh - I got my pro cut blinds for about half of the price of the custom blind shop, and they look right, but I would rather have run the saw myself, than have them screw it up.

 

[Ghery]

I really got a dose of reality when I went into our local Radio Shack, asked for solder wick, and got three blank stares....

Yeah, I can tell you haven't been inside a Battery & Cell Phone Shack in a while.

But the dumb looks were still free.

 

[docmirror]

Now my favorite incompetence story.

I got to the ski area and wanted to go into the annual pass office to get my card renewed for the coming season. It was Thanksgiving weekend and they just opened for the year. The people on the counter were still pretty green, and I was expecting issues.

According to the card, you don't need ID with you when you ski, just your pass. The pass has your picture on it, and is usually linked with a credit card so you can charge stuff in the lunch room, and also in the ski shop. One card for everything, including payment. I specifically don't link my ski pass card with my credit card because the ski pass is an RFID card, and I don't want it to be scanned and copied, which will give access to my linked credit card.

I get to the counter, and the girl behind it is cute, but not really ready for the real world. I ask her to renew my card for the new season, and she scans it with the card reader. It takes about 10 minutes for her to fumble around, and she finally calls for help. The next girl wants to know which CC I have linked to the card, and I say 'none'. This baffles her, and she calls for more help. A third person shows up who kinda knows what she's doing and she gets things sorted out, and hands me the liability release paper to sign. I sign it and the two helpers go away, and the first girl says 'you are all set! have a great day!, with a big smile. I ask her if the card is now active as I'm gonna go get on the lift. She says yes, but I have my doubts.

Of course, when I get to the lift line, the card shows invalid. Back to the season pass office, same girl, same problem, same path with the CC request. This time she tells me the pass can't be activated without a CC being linked to it. I ask for a refund, tell her I'll go elsewhere with my ski business, and show me the CC linking requirement in writing, cause I know it doesn't exist. She gets more help over, they get her sorted out, she apologizes, I ask the manager if he can check right now that the card is active before I go out to the chair again, and he assures me that it is. So, I just walk out to the chair lift without my skis and have them try it. Nope, still dead.

Back to the office, and now they have my card, and are looking at it like the card is from outer space. The manager is actually staring at my card, with the photo on it, I'm not wearing anything over my face and says; "We will need to see a picture ID to validate this card sir." I give him a few seconds and tap my fingernail on the counter for a bit, and it finally hits him. "Oh, just a second". He cuts up my card, has me stand for a brand new card, takes my pic, makes a new card, with a new RFID, loads it with the ski pass, and once more asks 'which CC will you be using to link to this card'? And I reply "none". It takes them both about 10 minutes to figure out how to do that, and finally I get to go ski after almost an hour spent with four different clerks, none of whom could figure out how to fix my original pass.

 

[JoseCuervo]

One card for everything, including payment. I specifically don't link my ski pass card with my credit card because the ski pass is an RFID card, and I don't want it to be scanned and copied, which will give access to my linked credit card.

You are convinced that they have no security and that you would have had your card info compromised?

 

[docmirror]

You are convinced that they have no security and that you would have had your card info compromised?

I don't care about the ski areas security. RFID can be compromised by a kid with a $100 scanner. I know for a fact that the ski resort does not use any RFID random UID tools available because the scanners at the lift chair don't support random UIDs, as it gets scanned a dozen times per day, and they were advised the random UID(and other anti-piracy tools like encryption) were too cumbersome, and costly to employ for what they were used for at the lift line.

The scanners at the lift line were the cheap kind, and would only verify minimal info like pass type, date, person, gender. When their RFID card is linked to a CC, a person can go into just about any shop at the ski area and many shops in the apres-ski area and use it to buy just about anything. No thank you.