[NA] Incompetence is annoying

CJones

CJones

Final Approach
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uHaveNoIdea
<rant>

Went to a local big-box home-supply store yesterday to get a couple of 10' sticks of PVC for a home project. I don't have a truck and didn't feel like hooking the trailer up to the Jeep just to get two sticks of PVC, so I figured I would get them to cut the long pieces down into smaller pieces at the store so they would fit in the car. Get to the store and walk back to the plumbing supply area. Grab what I need and start poking around to find someone to cut 4' off of each stick for me. Wife finds a guy a few aisle over and he says "Well, it will be a while, I have to get two cabinets down over here." He didn't offer to radio anyone else to help us.. Didn't apologize for not being able to do it, basically just said "wellp... sucks for you!". I looked around the area where they usually cut pipe, etc. to see if they had a hacksaw or some snips to cut it so I could do it myself but came up empty. I walked over to the appliances area and they guy there was talking on his cell phone and watching a live summary of the NFL game on the computer. He wouldn't even look up at me as I appeared to be looking for help with something. We finally said "F this, let's go across the street to the competing big box home supply store."

We got to the 2nd store and found what we needed. I walked down a couple of aisles and found someone stocking the shelves and asked them if I could get someone to cut some PVC for me (this is after looking for a hacksaw or snips to cut it myself and coming up empty again). They said they would call for someone. Five minutes later, a guy comes walking down the aisle without saying a word and grabs the PVC that I had propped up on the shelf and starts to put it away. I said "Uhh.. I need that cut." His reply "You can't stack that here, it's a safety hazard." I said "OK, but I just want that cut." He looks at me with a blank stare like "How DARE you want to buy product here. Don't you know it is my job to keep the shelves looking pretty!?" He begrudgingly takes the PVC down to the end of the aisle and begins to cut it. Then another guy walks up and starts talking to the first guy without ever even acknowledging that I (the customer) am standing there. They commence to b*tch about their jobs as I stand there 2' away from them. The first guy finally figures out how to use the snips so he can cut the PVC. When he finishes, he just lays it on the ground and BOTH guys walk away. No "Is there anything else you need help with?". No "Thanks for shopping at our store today because you could have just as easily have gone across the street to our #1 competitor". Nothing. If I hadn't had so much time wrapped up in this ordeal already, I would have walked out again.

As we walked out, I told my wife "Now you know why I never want to ask for helps at these places. Every time I do, I get so pi$$ed off at their incompetence that it ruins my day." I think I would rather look for something myself and not be able to find it than to have to deal with the screwballs that don't give a rats a$$ if you ever step foot in their establishment.

Sigh.. Oh well.. It's Monday...

</rant>
 
And that right there is a perfect argument AGAINST a mandatory minimum wage.
 
I'm sure you see this one coming from me...

I ran into the same issues when I was building across GA, AL and MS. Incompetence and zero customer service at both Home Depot and Lowe's...but especially at Home Depot.

It's a southern thing. We don't have near that level of indifference here and, going farther north yet, I ran into virtually none when I was working across OH, WI, MI, MN and the Dakotas. People are far more helpful and qualified in stores like this.
 
When I go in there I NEVER ask for help (I value my time and sanity too much). I just find a tool and use it, or bring one from home and do it in the parking lot. Besides as mentioned, MOST employees are talking on their cell phones and walking around the store avoiding customers as much as possible anyway.
 
timwinters said:
I'm sure you see this one coming from me...

I ran into the same issues when I was building across GA, AL and MS. Incompetence and zero customer service at both Home Depot and Lowe's...but especially at Home Depot.

It's a southern thing. We don't have near that level of indifference here and, going farther north yet, I ran into virtually none when I was working across OH, WI, MI, MN and the Dakotas. People are far more helpful and qualified in stores like this.
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If I know exactly what I need, it's one of the big box stores so I don't need to ask anyone. Of course there have been times when a number of customers are standing around looking for help and there are NO employees anywhere. That's when I head to the door but first find the manager and explain why I'm walking out without spending any money.

If I need real help, it's Ace Hardware. Further to drive but they know what they're doing.
 
I wouldn't say it's incompetence, it's apathy.

When I go down south, I do notice that everything is more laid back. But when it comes to customer service it's too laid back. I frequent the #48 and the #20 store up here and never have an issue with either one.
 
I get very frustrated with those providing customer no service at the two main brand stores. I occasionally find a retiree that was in a construction trade and they ae invaluable. Too bad they are so few and far between.

you mean I have the smart ones!!!!!!
 
The big box stores usually have a miter saw back in the area where they sell millwork (molding).
 
What irritates the hell out of me is when I can't walk ten steps through the store without EVERY SINGLE employees I pass asking, "Can I help you find something?"... No, leave me the hell alone and let me shop! Yet on those exceedingly rare occasions when I do actually need help, they've all mysteriously disappeared.
 
In the Northeast I've found box store employees are competent(enough) and helpful. Don't know if that means we are overeducated or underemployed.
 
Or you could just grab one of their cellphones and smash the pipe in two!

Why any employer, especially a retailer, allows their employees to carry personal cellphones is beyond me. I'd require that they remain in the employee's break room locker. The store has a phone, if someone has a true emergency then they can call that number.
 
I briefly worked retail for some extra money in college. I always really liked helping people find stuff they needed, answering questions, carrying stuff out to someone's car, etc. The way I saw it, it was a fun break from the boring tedious task of stocking and straightening up stuff on the shelves.

But you have to realize, this kind of attitude really comes from the top down. Those guys probably had the type of middle manager who's only goal is to make sure nothing is their fault if something goes wrong.
 
I had the same problem trying to get some rope cut for me at the 20. No one would help, so I stuck my fingers in the grate and turned the machine on myself.

Bunch of managers ran over to stop me, but I was already done. When I explained that no one was gonna help me so I figured out the oh so difficult machine myself, they just walked away without even so much as an apology.
 
For what these stores pay, they can't be too picky. I can't imagine that they deliberately choose indifferent, incompetent employees. More likely, those are just the only ones willing to work for peanuts.

-Rich
 
In the Midwest most are very helpful with info and details. Certainly there are exceptions.... you can usually weeds those guys out really quick. The point is I build a relationship with the vendors you use.

Flying to HI last month I called about getting WiFi on the plane for the 7 hour flight. The GOGO (inflight internet company) gal on the phone told me they don't have WiFI service over the ocean yet, but they are working on building towers in the ocean. :eek: I laughed out loud and politely told her that would never happen. :idea:
 
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It's very unfortunate. I used to go to a local Ace Hardware as much as possible, but they finally went under, now I'm stuck with the big box stores. Like I said - I don't mind it except for the .000001% of the time that I actually need help - and in this instance, if I could have found a hacksaw, I wouldn't have needed help at all.

Since I have moved to the Atlanta area, I have walked out of stores without buying anything AFTER I had product in my hand (no, I didn't shoplift) at least a half dozen times because of the lack of service. One time, I literally could not find anyone that would check me out - they only had 'self checkout' available, and I was buying stuff that had to be priced individually.

Un.... freaking.... believable.
 
Why go to the box store then? With what they pay, you can't expect them to have good help, they're lucky if they have people that show up. Ace hardware in your neighborhood typically has good help and the products you need. If you keep supporting the stores that **** you off, you will continue to get ****ed off by the stores you support. Maybe it's worth the dollar you save to you, but then don't come ranting, there are options to the big box stores still, but they won't last forever if you keep going to the box store to save a dollar.

I find it sadly comical how the consumers in this country have destroyed good businesses to make crappy businesses wealthy then complain about the result, all to save themselves a dollar or two.
 
timwinters said:
Or you could just grab one of their cellphones and smash the pipe in two!

Why any employer, especially a retailer, allows their employees to carry personal cellphones is beyond me. I'd require that they remain in the employee's break room locker. The store has a phone, if someone has a true emergency then they can call that number.
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That is what we do. Caused quite a stir for a few weeks but it worked out quite well in the end. That was five years ago. Now with smart phones and Facebook apps I'm really glad we implemented that policy.
 
Starting when I was 14, I worked for a small department store chain that had a big regional presence in New York City and the surrounding areas. I was a bicycle mechanic by title, but I was also allowed to sell when I wasn't assembling or repairing bikes.

We had a union, and we made a bit above minimum wage. But we also got commissions. In my case, I got a flat rate for every bicycle I assembled (because assembly was free to the customer), plus a percentage of any repairs I did. I also was allowed to accept tips.

When I was working the sales floor, I got the same commissions as the sales people did. It varied between 2.5 percent to 10 percent depending on the bicycle. Any accessories sold at the same time as a bike (but not when sold on their own) were also commissionable.

Long story short, I made good money. We all did, if we were willing to work. That's why no one had to watch over us to make sure that we did. The harder and smarter we worked, the more money we made. Goof-offs didn't last long because they didn't make any money.

In addition, it was a happy place to work. It was owned by an old man (as in, really old, not just old to a 14-year-old kid) named George who had started the chain in 1929. He treated us all like family when he came around, always making it a point to thank us for our work when he came around. It cost him nothing to do that, but it made us feel appreciated.

One thing I liked was that when George came around, he wore a name tag like the rest of did. His name tag read "George," and the title spot (where mine, for example, said "Bicycle Mechanic") was blank. I genuinely liked the old man. There was no other employer I knew of where a 14-year-old kid could make the kind of money I was making (at least not legally).

When George retired in 1987 (which was long after I'd left, but I was still in contact with people who worked there), he sold the chain to another company. They promptly did away with commissions for all departments except major appliances, tried to get the union out by leasing operations of most of the other departments to sub-contractors, banned tipping, and essentially undid everything that George had done to make the store both successful and a nice place to work.

Three years later, the company filed for bankruptcy, and all the stores were shuttered.

-Rich
 
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It's not just the big box stores either. We have a Kroger nearby that I refuse to shop at. It is disorganized and the employees don't seem to have a clue where a product is located. Another locally owned chain is diametrically opposed. All their employees know right where everything is and are always willing to help. You can guess who gets my business.
 
Silly stereotyping aside, I find the difference between treatment in a particular store versus another to be more the result of that store's management than the latitude of its locale. I have received excellent and knowledgeable assistance at stores here, and have received utterly clueless and indifferent service.

All that said, I prefer to trade with a local store if it can be managed, and there are a couple of very good locals here. They are not at all threatened by the big-boxes, and their service sells.
 
Anybody that goes into a DIY Big Box Store looking for Customer Service is a poor navigator.

If you want service, you go to the full-service plumbing supply store or the local True-Value / Ace Hardware. HD and Lowes are not designed to provide service, they are designed to provide lower prices and a lawsuit free investment for their shareholders.


I always forget to go to True Value and get surprised when I walk in and they ask if they can help me. I tell them I need a left-handed widget with fine threads and they say "Aisle 12, 2/3's of the way down on the left, second shelf from the bottom, would you like me to escort you?"

You pay more, but you are in and out in 5 minutes instead of the 30 minutes at Home Depot.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Anybody that goes into a DIY Big Box Store looking for Customer Service is a poor navigator.

If you want service, you go to the full-service plumbing supply store or the local True-Value / Ace Hardware. HD and Lowes are not designed to provide service, they are designed to provide lower prices and a lawsuit free investment for their shareholders.


I always forget to go to True Value and get surprised when I walk in and they ask if they can help me. I tell them I need a left-handed widget with fine threads and they say "Aisle 12, 2/3's of the way down on the left, second shelf from the bottom, would you like me to escort you?"

You pay more, but you are in and out in 5 minutes instead of the 30 minutes at Home Depot.
Click to expand...

That's all fine and dandy, but when the local store is 1/20th the size of Lowe's or Home Depot, the chances of them having what I want isn't up there. They didn't even have a 60A cutoff switch. Lowe's did.
 
SCCutler said:
Silly stereotyping aside, I find the difference between treatment in a particular store versus another to be more the result of that store's management than the latitude of its locale. I have received excellent and knowledgeable assistance at stores here, and have received utterly clueless and indifferent service.

All that said, I prefer to trade with a local store if it can be managed, and there are a couple of very good locals here. They are not at all threatened by the big-boxes, and their service sells.
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I don't think it matters whether it's a big-box store or a small local store. Recently I went out to buy a drill bit for my cordless drill. I know the base is 1/4" hex, in fact I specifically looked it up before I went shopping. I went to the local True Value because it is closer than the big box store and the guy (who was definitely not a kid) tried to sell me a bit with a little round base and kept telling me it would fit until I demonstrated on a drill he had for sale that it would not.

He was friendly, though.
 
Henning said:
Why go to the box store then? With what they pay, you can't expect them to have good help, they're lucky if they have people that show up. Ace hardware in your neighborhood typically has good help and the products you need. If you keep supporting the stores that **** you off, you will continue to get ****ed off by the stores you support. Maybe it's worth the dollar you save to you, but then don't come ranting, there are options to the big box stores still, but they won't last forever if you keep going to the box store to save a dollar.

I find it sadly comical how the consumers in this country have destroyed good businesses to make crappy businesses wealthy then complain about the result, all to save themselves a dollar or two.
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What if the big box stores run the local owners out of business?
 
MarkZ said:
What if the big box stores run the local owners out of business?
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Then consumers have no right to rant, they brought the problem upon themselves. I have yet to see where this has happened in the hardware store market though, Ace and True Value are still quite prolific. Auto parts stores though, that is where the industry has suffered greatly. NAPA is still reasonably well represented, but I have a hard time finding a Car Quest which was always my preferred supplier. The crap I get from Auto Zone and Discount Auto Parts is depressing. I ended up having to get a brake hose from Advanced the other day, the end block didn't fit within the tab on the caliper, I had to file it down to make it work.
 
Henning said:
Then consumers have no right to rant, they brought the problem upon themselves. I have yet to see where this has happened in the hardware store market though, Ace and True Value are still quite prolific. Auto parts stores though, that is where the industry has suffered greatly. NAPA is still reasonably well represented, but I have a hard time finding a Car Quest which was always my preferred supplier. The crap I get from Auto Zone and Discount Auto Parts is depressing. I ended up having to get a brake hose from Advanced the other day, the end block didn't fit within the tab on the caliper, I had to file it down to make it work.
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Completely agree here. Good point and thank you.
 
SCCutler said:
Silly stereotyping aside,
Click to expand...

Lots of stereotypes have very firm foundations.

For years, I was on the road all the time. All over the lower 48. And I knew I was in trouble when I rolled into a town, an area or a larger town, sometimes a region, sometimes an entire state when:

1. There was no receipt paper at the self service pumps and I had to go inside to get my receipt...for days on end...at most stations in town...no paper. No valid reason except that the employees were just too lazy to reload them.

2. When I walked into the above referenced gas station and asked for a receipt, the employee looked up at me with that "WTF are you bothering me for?" look, sighed, and grudgingly printed one out for me.

3. I wouldn't touch anything in the restroom at that gas stations, at the McDonald's, etc. And I don't mean just slightly dirty, I mean every surface screamed "don't touch me if you value your health!"

3. None of the carts were placed in the cart corrals at Wal*Mart or Lowe's or Kroger, etc. Instead they were just left strewn around the parking lots.

4. Empty oil cans were also left strewn around the above referenced lot. From people who added a quart and just tossed the can to the ground right there next to their cart. There was a trash can at the cart corral, but no. Oh, and let's not forget about the empty "big gulp" cups that were randomly placed around the parking lot by those who just leaned out of a car's open door.

5. The hotel room, regardless of the brand name, wasn't clean...I ALWAYS had a vacuum cleaner with me and boy did I ever get strange looks when I'd check in. Even in Suites, I needed to re-arrange furniture to set up adequate office space and I carried a 6' folding table with me that worked nicely as a "plan table wing" when added to the typical hotel room's desk. In some parts of the country, you'd be amazed at what you find when you start moving the furniture around in a hotel room. Things that hadn't seen the light of day for years. Literally...years...

6. Every restaurant in town had fried food...nothing else...just fried food. Ask for a chef salad and they stare at you like you're from another planet.

If I ran into a few of the above during my first week in a new place, I knew it was going to be a long 3 to 4 months...the duration of my average project.
 
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EdFred said:
That's all fine and dandy, but when the local store is 1/20th the size of Lowe's or Home Depot, the chances of them having what I want isn't up there. They didn't even have a 60A cutoff switch. Lowe's did.
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My experience is the more oddball an item is, the more likely Local Store has it and less likely HD or Lowes has it. HD and Lowes don't have a business model that relies on stocking low-volume/slow moving parts. They try and stock the parts that move the most $$$$ per square foot per month.
 
Henning said:
but I have a hard time finding a Car Quest which was always my preferred supplier.
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Hate to be the bearer of bad news but CarQuest was recently bought out by Advance. So now, when you walk into one, you'll be buying that same crap that Advance sells.

Zone and Advance have the cheapest parts on the market. O'Reilly does a much better job because they have a much larger dealer/mechanic market. Company wide 50% of O'Reilly's parts go out the back door delivered to mechanics...mechanics won't put junk in their customers cars. Not that they necessarily care about their customers ( :) ), but rather because they won't tolerate the warranty issues.

NAPA, overall, probably has the best quality part out there. If you want to pay $$$$ for it. Some of their prices are outrageous.

But, everyone has issues with suppliers on occasion, even NAPA. An alternator mfgr might start cutting corners and get by with it for a while. Until problems start showing up. Then the'll get slapped around and ordered to get their QC ducks in a row or they're simply dropped for another alternator supplier.
 
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SCCutler said:
Silly stereotyping aside, I find the difference between treatment in a particular store versus another to be more the result of that store's management than the latitude of its locale. I have received excellent and knowledgeable assistance at stores here, and have received utterly clueless and indifferent service.
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So much stereotyping and pointless politicalization of every issue!

I don't think it's necessarily about the clerks or the big box store concept. It's about management at the store level. A good store manager sets the tone and you can usually tell before talking to anyone. Check and see how much 'stuff' is sitting in the aisles, how jumbled the shelves are (though vendors seem to do much of the shelf maintenance), uncleaned spills, overstaffed underutilized departments, etc

I've been frequenting the same Lowes and Home Depot for 10-15 years. Built a hangar workshop, a deck, a kitchen and a plane over that time so had lot's of experience at both.

I've switched 3 or 4 times between making one or the other my preferred store. It's never from a single visit or experience but what I've come to learn as a change in store management. I'm not surprised by the frequency of change but I swear I can tell when it's happened after a visit or two.

Big box home improvement stores are great because of the inventory and the prices. And while having knowledgeable help there would be good, I recall quite well the alternative.

Before the prevalence of these stores, you'd have to go to the local electrical supply house, plumbing supply house or lumber yard to buy the same stuff. These places by necessity and custom cater primarily to contractors. They know there stuff and speak the language. However, homeowners may or may not be welcome. These places routinely had signs up saying, "Contractors served first" or coffee and chairs for "Contractors only". The bigger ones would have separate service desks. Back in the day, I absolutely hated trying to buy something I didn't know much about and I hated the 2nd class treatment.

And while buying at 'locally owned' stores can be nice, it can also be off putting for first time customers or if you don't sound or look like "you are from around here". Not always but too often.

I sometimes prefer the anonymous, under-trained and inexperienced help that fills many big box. I can manage my own experience. If things go south, getting a manager is easy and they almost always get me what I need. And I try not to begrudge the help - I see folks that clearly worked at something else for most of their careers but ended up here trying to parlay it into some kind of respectful retirement. There but for the grace of.... etc

All this inventory, low prices and abundant if distracted help. Such a first world problem it is. Just smile, treat everyone with respect and don't hesitate to ask for more help when needed.
 
Within a mile we have an O'Reilley's and an Auto Zone. In between is a locally owned auto parts store that is beating the pants off the other two.
 
Another problem with national chains is the centralized automated ordering/inventory system. If a specific item has not moved within a certain time period, it is sent back to the central warehouse, never to be seen again. I have encountered this time and time again. If you are lucky, the item can be "special ordered", but that requires effort that some of the employees try not to get involved with. In such a case, I insist that they go online and find out...
 
Herman vanOoijen said:
Another problem with national chains is the centralized automated ordering/inventory system. If a specific item has not moved within a certain time period, it is sent back to the central warehouse, never to be seen again. I have encountered this time and time again. If you are lucky, the item can be "special ordered", but that requires effort that some of the employees try not to get involved with. In such a case, I insist that they go online and find out...
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I'm the opposite, I just don't give them my business. If a store doesn't understand customer service, I don't support that store either with my money or time teaching them their job.
 
I find I get the best result research my needs and finding out which product is best on the internet. Then either buying on the internet or if I need it now or it's too big to reasonably ship going to the store and getting it while interacting as little as possible with the sales droids.

There are some reasons to still shop in a store... sometimes you need to see something with your own eyes, maybe it needs to be fitted, maybe you need to verify a correct part, it's too expensive to ship, or you need/want it immediately. But for most things it's just easier to wait for the box on your doorstep.
 
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