[NA]Hangar lighting[NA]

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Let'sgoflying!, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    Time to upgrade the lighting.
    I need to learn all about what is available now -especially, it seems, LEDs.

    50x50 hangar with zero heating, 14' ceiling (uninsulated metal, occasional roof drips), 120V readily available on two dedicated 20A circuits.
    Mission is 'blazing bright', 5000K is acceptable here, will put in as many as needed to minimize shadows.
    Current lighting is 8 metal halide bulbs with no reflectors or shielding

    Tell me:
    -what you like and why
    -longevity of bulbs (ballasts?) and other hardware - very important; will pay more to avoid going up ladders
    -best cost per lumen
    -ease of install
    -needs to work well in m10 to 30C weather
    -must come on within 2-3 minutes
    -oh, my hangar has voltage variations up to 15v from nominal thanks to our stupid electric co (one day I will tell you about running power tools at night, and the metal halide lights go out as soon as the compressor kicks on; mind your #!& fingers)
    -I won't say no cost limit but I am willing to fork out for this project. Unreasonable to think I can do this for <$500?
    -links to other threads welcome. But don't let that stop you from posting here.
     
  2. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Location:
    Tupelo, MS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ktup-flyer
  3. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,004
    Location:
    Roswell, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FormerHangie
    I recently replaced a couple of fluorescent fixtures in my garage with some Lithonia LEDs. They're a big improvement, and they're instant on and don't mind the cold. They also shouldn't burn out in my lifetime.

    For a 14 foot ceiling I assume you'll need the high bay lights, which depending on output are $125 - $250. I suspect you'll need more than $500 worth.

    If you want very high quality, I'd look at what Big Ass Fans has to offer, but they won't be cheap.
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  4. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    6,356
    Location:
    Wasilla, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    In roughly the same area with 14' ceiling I have 9- 4' 6 tube t5 fluorescent fixtures (216' of high output tubes). They provide good light and I wouldn't want less. I've converted my company shop-offices from T12 to LED and it was an improvement. Expensive to do but it pays off in the electric bill there. I won't convert the hangar lights until the fluorescents start to fail.

    Just had 4- Progressive Lighting 8' fans installed. Very pleased.
    C40C7CF2-FF6A-4B74-8D62-161BB978BCE8.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  5. Brad W

    Brad W Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2019
    Messages:
    353
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    BLW2
    not a hangar, but I replaced the tubes in my garage with some form amazon
    listed now as unavailable, juts some "no-name" things but they've served me well so far. 3 fixtures in a 3 car garage with about 10 ft ceilings light it up well, noticeably better than the builder's special 2-tube lights, but maybe not "blazing bright". With better placement and just a couple more I think it would be there....
    (Hykolity 4FT LED Commercial Ceiling Wraparound Shop Light Fixture 40W 4000lm Low Profile Linear Flushmount Office Garage Home [2 lamp 32W Fluorescent Equivalent] 5000K Daylight ETL Listed 4 Pack)

    Maybe obvious..but If I were going for "blazing bright" in a hangar I'd put at least 2 switch circuits in so you can have the option for "just enough to see".....
     
    Kenny Phillips likes this.
  6. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,016
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GeorgeC
  7. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    So the rec’s appear to be all for linear LED tubes; the circular “yard light” type would not be as effective?

    I can see no advantage to ballasted fixture so will get no-ballast fixtures.

    In this thread, lots of talk about bulb connection differences. Has any one type emerged as the most common?

     
  8. scottfromboston

    scottfromboston Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    317
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scott
    We just added two of those over the centerline of the plane (there are marginally useful LED’s out above the wings). Monstrous improvement. Ran both through a switch on a cut up extension cord (plugged in).

    The inexpensive 4’ LED fixtures were useless at the ceiling height. I saw these at a local brewery with higher ceilings and they’re still fine.

    If you do 4 (over wings, engine, behind cabin) you’ll love it.

    Ladder time was unpleasant but manageable. Two ladders (and a helper) would have helped.

    Best way to install is proper beam clamps and eye bolts.

     

    Attached Files:

  9. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
  10. scottfromboston

    scottfromboston Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    317
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scott
    Can’t say how those will spread light but they’re probably easier to put up than the ones we go, and almost twice the lumens for the same price.
     
  11. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,850
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shawn
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  12. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
  13. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    16,830
    Location:
    Dallas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spike Cutler
    The $60.00 is a two-pack, I believe.
     
  14. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    9,506
    Location:
    Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fast Eddie B
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  15. Badger

    Badger Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,058
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Badger
    I'd start with calculations of lumens per sf.

    what do you desire? 50? 80? Other
    what colors are your floors, walls and ceiling?
     
  16. scottfromboston

    scottfromboston Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    317
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scott
    Some good pricing and options here but no idea about quality and such.

    https://greenlightdepot.com/collections/led-high-bay

    Personally I wouldn’t do the 2-tube fixtures in a high bay. They just don’t have the power needed - you can put up a bunch but you’ll spend the same and end up doing more wiring, mounting, etc., and more time up on a ladder.
     
  17. Brad W

    Brad W Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2019
    Messages:
    353
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    BLW2
    the ones I used were not tubes. They are LED tape strips in a housing to surface mount and "look" a bit like a tube type fixture. In reality it's just s strip of LED's
     
    tjfelles likes this.
  18. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    do please note the time of my post. I promise to never fly at that hour in that apparently I am not capable of performing simple arithmetic in those conditions.

    Thanks Brad I will look up those Hykolity's.

    I would do that Badger but I'm not convinced it would help me. You see, I am in my living room right now and could not tell you if I have 1 or one million lumens blasting away at my retinas. Well, I am pretty sure is not one million. I do know that my hangar is 2500sf of floor space. (I presume this would not include any other surface.) and colors? Dirt, ordinary concrete, walls of 'Mueller sheet steel' primer, mixed with a little corrugated, 10yo galvanized steel. :)
     
  19. n2230b

    n2230b Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    SouthFlatistan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    fast eddie
    Look at ruralking.com.
    20,000 lumen LED tripod work light $89.99.
    I have one and the thing is BRIGHT.
    Bought it on sale for $69.99 3 weeks ago.
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  20. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    I was at HD today.
    Side by side there was a circular lamp like the one I posted about (on Thursday 10:35) and some linear lamps.

    Even with sunglasses on I could not tell the difference (they were too bright to practically compare them with the nekkid eye)

    9,000lum $100
    vs
    30,000lum $155

    what did I miss? (more arithmetic?)


    upload_2020-3-13_21-0-7.jpeg
     
  21. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,004
    Location:
    Roswell, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FormerHangie
    You currently have 8 metal halide bulbs illuminating the space. Three questions: how many watts each, how old are they, and are they bright enough? I would think the easiest way to do this job would be to replace what you have with high bay LED fixtures, and you can probably find something that will meet your needs that directly replaces them.
     
  22. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    6,356
    Location:
    Wasilla, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    Worked on the final details of my Cub re-power today. Good lighting is awesome. Don't skimp.
     
  23. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    summary from this and 2 other threads of currently available products close to my needs posted earlier:
    comments/corrections welcome.
    1. Home Depot CommElect 2' linear with fixture ?#bulbs 180lum/$ 105lum/w

    2. Hykolity 4' linear with fixture sure looks like 1 bulb with a ballast! ; 200lum/$ 100lum/w

    3. Phillips circular 240w; 250lum/$ 140lum/watt Im not looking at this one, it projects a narrow 'beam' unless mounted 30' high; backordered til June anyway

    4. Costco Feit 4' linear 2pack of a bulb pair=4bulbs with 2 fixtures; 42w 133lum/$ 95lum/w

    5. HD Lithonia 4' linear 2 bulbs with fixture 100lum/$ 129lum/w

    6. Badger just posted another Hykolity, 4' linear 8bulbs no fixture, just connectors; 262lum/$ 100lum/w

    7. NoName Ten 5' lamps 286lum/$ 100lum/w

    I have not checked these to see which run with a ballast; anything with ballast will probably be dropped from my list.
    None of the ads say if the lumens or watts are per bulb or per fixture so I posted it as advertised (except the Feit which says 2-pack, so I doubled the lumens)
    Only the Feit is 4000K; the others are 5000K
    I'm aware of the difficulty surrounding lumen measurement.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
  24. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,387
    Location:
    State of Confusion
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    chartbundle
    If you can find any non-retrofit LED lights that come with a ballast I'd say whoever made them was a moron.

    (Personally, if I'm doing retrofits I prefer to remove the ballasts anyway.)
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  25. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    Also
    I have about discarded the idea of the highbay circular lamps; I saw a description of their beam footprint and they have to be really high in order to get any coverage of the floor.
     
  26. scottfromboston

    scottfromboston Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    317
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scott
    The one behind the circular one in your photo is what I used - 18000lm and 100$
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  27. Badger

    Badger Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,058
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Badger
  28. jrcox19

    jrcox19 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 5, 2019
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    KIXD KOJC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    jrcox19
    I put 6 of these in a 3 car garage and they are incredibly bright.
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  29. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    3,258
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    I put two four-foot linkable LED 'shop lights' over my 6' woodworking bench, and instantly cursed myself for not doing it a year ago.
    Especially as my lenses cloud up (63!) I'll need more and better light for working on stuff. Next will be the electronics bench.
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  30. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    Those appear to be bulbs only.
    It does not show or mention connectors.
    You would need fixtures to install the bulbs into ie pre-existing fluo fixture?
    And I can't tell if they need ballasts or not.

    edit.
    The ad says Fixture so I added it to the list.
    Like many things in modern tech era, the shape/appearance/function of things is constantly malleable and a fixture may mean a hard metal box or as in this case, the string-bikini nothingness of the old-style fixture.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
  31. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,004
    Location:
    Roswell, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FormerHangie
    How are you going to mount these? High Bay lights are generally recommended for 16 foot and up ceilings, and strip lights are for 14 foot and lower ceilings.

    I'd certainly go LED either way.
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  32. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    16,830
    Location:
    Dallas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spike Cutler
    Unless I am sorely mistaken, no LED lamps "need" ballasts; when LED lamp adverts reference ballasts, they do so in the context of selling LED tubes to place in existing fluorescent fixtures in replacement of the old tubes, and as being compatible with existing ballasts. I have seen no LED fixtures (as opposed to retrofit tubes) which require anything other than an AC power connection (and they have their own AC to DC conversion, since LEDs use DC).

    I just installed a couple of 6" round LED lights in my house, and they are stupid-simple to install, bright and emit no noticeable heat. On the other hand, they were dirt-cheap to buy.
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  33. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    I posted one above that clearly shows bulbs being connected to a box which looks for all the world like a ballast. (pic below) The Hykolity, #2 in my list.

    And,..they all use a 'driver' is that correct? Usually internal or integral, not an external box??


    led.jpg
     
  34. jrcox19

    jrcox19 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 5, 2019
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    KIXD KOJC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    jrcox19
    No fixture required. They come with a cable that can be hard wired into power/outlet/switch, or you can wire up a plug.

    Plus you can daisy chain 3 of them together using the included cables.
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  35. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,387
    Location:
    State of Confusion
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    chartbundle
    That is an integral driver, that light uses a strip of LEDs, the driver is the box, it's integral to the fixture. Some bulb-style LEDs will have the driver inside the bulb enclosure, some will have them inside the housing. Retrofit bulbs have to have the driver in the bulb because they're driven with AC. Lights designed from the ground-up for LEDs can put the driver wherever it's convenient. The 'bulbs' in most LED lights are just to make them look pretty, they're strips of LEDs with a diffuser over/around them and having a single driver for the whole strip/multiple strips will improve efficiency.

    Every LED driven from AC power has some sort of 'driver' even if it's just a blocking diode or a bridge rectifier and a resistor, but you won't see anything that simple outside an indicator light.
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  36. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    I just bought a bunch of these (#7 above) will let you know.
    Thanks all for input, help, guidance.
     
  37. jrcox19

    jrcox19 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 5, 2019
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    KIXD KOJC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    jrcox19
    Let me know how you like them.. 6 of them in the garage (two daisy chains) has been significantly brighter than I imagined.
     
  38. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    836
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
  39. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    17,553
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    The lights are plenty bright. The hangar has a whole new look to it (and corners that can't hide the crap and mess they used to).
    The electrical was easy; 3 wires. They draw so little that small gauge wire was fine; I rolled my romex back up and put it away. No need for 12/3wg for this project; save all that heavy copper.
    The mounting....these are designed for tiny clips to be screwed into a wood surface.
    Mine were mounted hanging from ceiling members with fencing wire.
    It's ok but it was fiddly and the clip to light fixture connection is poor so I supplemented it with cable ties (ty-wraps).

    Off to buy more for the garage and other hangar!
     
  40. boxorox

    boxorox Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    boxorox
    I Just put up 7 of these 8' LED strips in my garage and it's noon day sun bright in the garage. Regarding the cables to connect them do a search on amazon for T5 Connector Cord. You'll find all sorts of lengths if the ones included don't suit your need. In my case I need longer ones to daisy chain and I also picked up plugs without the built in switch. In my case I had two ceiling round boxes with standard bulb sockets on a switch. I converted the bulb sockets to outlets and used standard plugs so it's easy to modify or remove in the future.

    One thing I have observed is that they do cause banding in photos.

    IMG_20200327_093953.jpg

    For the money though I'm very happy with the result!