[NA]Federal Water Heater Mandate[NA]

EdFred said:
Longer and skinnier = more surface area/volume = higher costs.
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So? Slightly more expensive at the store vs either a reconstruction project at the house, or disassembly and reassembly of a $25 cheaper water heater to get it through the hole. Which do you think the consumer will choose? I bet you could get away with a $50 premium easy.
 
Henning said:
So? Slightly more expensive at the store vs either a reconstruction project at the house, or disassembly and reassembly of a $25 cheaper water heater to get it through the hole. Which do you think the consumer will choose? I bet you could get away with a $50 premium easy.
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Well, that's only if you convince the manufacturers to up their cost. More goes into it than the factory just saying "hey lets make this 12" taller." Personally, I would look for a squattier fatter one. Less surface area means less heat loss.
 
EdFred said:
Well, that's only if you convince the manufacturers to up their cost. More goes into it than the factory just saying "hey lets make this 12" taller." Personally, I would look for a squattier fatter one. Less surface area means less heat loss.
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As long as it fits through a standard attic door, I think 16"x34" IIRC is what the opening is.
 
EdFred said:
Well, that's only if you convince the manufacturers to up their cost. More goes into it than the factory just saying "hey lets make this 12" taller." Personally, I would look for a squattier fatter one. Less surface area means less heat loss.
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But a shorter one also has less efficient heat transfer from the burner as well. So there is a tradeoff.
 
Sac Arrow said:
But a shorter one also has less efficient heat transfer from the burner as well. So there is a tradeoff.
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That is true, but in a world where everyone has 150 degree attics, it is less of an issue on both sides of the equation.
 
Henning said:
As long as it fits through a standard attic door, I think 16"x34" IIRC is what the opening is.
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Depends on the joist/truss spacing. On my (unfinished/blocked off) second floor I have 24" centers for roof joists, so I can go bigger than that.
 
Sac Arrow said:
But a shorter one also has less efficient heat transfer from the burner as well. So there is a tradeoff.
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Now how do you figure that? More surface area on the bottom would transfer more heat to the water unless you're spot heating it with a blowtorch.
 
Norman said:
Now how do you figure that? More surface area on the bottom would transfer more heat to the water unless you're spot heating it with a blowtorch.
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I think if you're using the same size burner on a wider tank, it's not as efficient.
 
Hmmm. I am in Texas and this is the first house where it isn't in the attic.

Not even in a closet, just in the garage.
I guess it is much safer like this. I prefer it. It is a gas heater maybe this cuts down on chance of gas leak in the house.

Either way, I am a stickler for safety and would hate for something to go wrong due to bad design or some sort of carelessness.

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I guess you southerners have continually hot garages and attics so it makes sense.

Right now if stuck something out in my garage it would be frozen by the end of the day.
 
cowman said:
I guess you southerners have continually hot garages and attics so it makes sense.

Right now if stuck something out in my garage it would be frozen by the end of the day.
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It is freezing in my garage right now but my hwh has a fire of some sort inside it that keeps it hot. Later this year I am adding an instant hot pump. Those are awesome and money savers too.
 
EdFred said:
Depends on the joist/truss spacing. On my (unfinished/blocked off) second floor I have 24" centers for roof joists, so I can go bigger than that.
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If you are looking at cutting things the point is moot. The issue is getting through standard attic ladder door openings that are already installed.
 
Yeah but suppose the gas goes out.... or in my case as my water heater is electric if the power goes out. But I guess your higher average ambient temps cancel out the cold months and end up being more efficient?

Most hot water heaters around here go in basements or interior rooms. I think it's am ambient temperature thing...
 
Henning said:
If you are looking at cutting things the point is moot. The issue is getting through standard attic ladder door openings that are already installed.
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My second floor is unfinished. I've got it wired and plumbed, and insulated (but not stapled) but no drywall, so everything is accessible. It's just me there, so I haven't bothered to finish it over the past 14 years.
 
Norman said:
Not in Michigan in the winter if the house is properly insulated.
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Depends on what you mean by "properly insulated." These days it's common to spray foam the entire envelope (right to the inside of the roof deck). Works quite nicely.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Hmmm. I am in Texas and this is the first house where it isn't in the attic.

Not even in a closet, just in the garage.
I guess it is much safer like this. I prefer it. It is a gas heater maybe this cuts down on chance of gas leak in the house.

Either way, I am a stickler for safety and would hate for something to go wrong due to bad design or some sort of carelessness.

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If you're a stickler for safety I would move those gas cans and that open container of used oil way the hell away from that water heater.
 
jesse said:
If you're a stickler for safety I would move those gas cans and that open container of used oil way the hell away from that water heater.
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I think his tongue was firmly in cheek with that pic.:D
 
flyingron said:
Depends on what you mean by "properly insulated." These days it's common to spray foam the entire envelope (right to the inside of the roof deck). Works quite nicely.
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Minimum R-19 between ceiling joists. Eaves and peak vented to outside.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Hmmm. I am in Texas and this is the first house where it isn't in the attic.

Not even in a closet, just in the garage.
I guess it is much safer like this. I prefer it. It is a gas heater maybe this cuts down on chance of gas leak in the house.

Either way, I am a stickler for safety and would hate for something to go wrong due to bad design or some sort of carelessness.

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:yikes::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
I evicted a tenant a couple of weeks ago. It was around zero at the time and when I went in to look at all the damage he'd done, naturally I also opened the faucets. No water from the hot water line, figured it was already frozen, but later saw where the shutoff FROM the water heater was in the OFF position. Couldn't figure out why they would do that. Kinda bugged me just a little bit, sticking in the back of my mind for a few days.

In the middle of the night several days later my eyes shot wide open. Duh. Once the water in the water heater froze it would expand and decimate it. Just one of those things that didn't dawn on me right away.
 
yeah, they are all empty.
Just funnin. There is a pilot light right there and I have heard horror stories about people placing gas cans near their hwh and catching the house on fire.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
yeah, they are all empty.
Just funnin. There is a pilot light right there and I have heard horror stories about people placing gas cans near their hwh and catching the house on fire.
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If you store them on top of the water heater then they won't be a trip hazard...
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
yeah, they are all empty.
Just funnin. There is a pilot light right there and I have heard horror stories about people placing gas cans near their hwh and catching the house on fire.
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You don't catch it on fire so much as blow it up.:lol:
 
Henning said:
As long as it fits through a standard attic door, I think 16"x34" IIRC is what the opening is.
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You didn't take in the thickness of the framing...

On a 16" center truss roof with 2X bottom cords, you actual opening is 14 1/2".

On a 24" center roof it is a 22 1/2" opening...
 
Norman said:
Minimum R-19 between ceiling joists. Eaves and peak vented to outside.
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Current IRC Energy code is more then twice that for new construction. At least it is in our climate zone...
 
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