[NA]Federal Water Heater Mandate[NA]

Heh, I've never seen a house with a water heater in the attic before.
 
cowman said:
Heh, I've never seen a house with a water heater in the attic before.
Click to expand...

At least it's already most of the way out of the house for when it explodes like a rocket. :D

I can see the benefit of increased insulation. I'm just surprised it made the heaters that much larger.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Can this be for real?? Please tell me I've been taken by an Onion-like 'news' piece, or an early April fools joke. If not, it's surely a Great YGBSM moment in the history of our government making our lives better.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2015/02/prweb12543349.htm
Click to expand...

Crikey! That's our set up, exactly.

And, yes, I agree, putting a water heater in the attic is completely retarded. But it's there, and any replacement will have to go through the drop-down staircase opening.

God, I'm so glad the federal government has decided to micromanage the heating of our hot water. What a bunch of maroons.
 
You are trusting a paid-for article written by a water heater salesman about "new regs coming into effect on tax day"?:confused:

FWIW, while new regs MAY dictate the effectiveness of insulation and minimum efficiency for new heaters, they will not require a certain size.

The water heater mfgs will build what sells- whether thicker units, taller units, smaller capacity units, or direct replacement units with more efficient insulating.

Will costs go up? First costs will, but long-term costs will most likely be a wash.
 
warthog1984 said:
You are trusting a paid-for article written by a water heater salesman about "new regs coming into effect on tax day"?:confused:

FWIW, while new regs MAY dictate the effectiveness of insulation and minimum efficiency for new heaters, they will not require a certain size.

The water heater mfgs will build what sells- whether thicker units, taller units, smaller capacity units, or direct replacement units with more efficient insulating.

Will costs go up? First costs will, but long-term costs will most likely be a wash.
Click to expand...


It's true... 10 CFR 430.32(d). Standards have been in place since 1990 and it looks like they've been tightened up every 5 years or so since.

On one hand, it seems like crazy government overreach. On the other, good public policy. Can't decide easily how I feel about this one.
 
warthog1984 said:
You are trusting a paid-for article written by a water heater salesman about "new regs coming into effect on tax day"? confused
Click to expand...

Ah, warthog - I have located the source of your confusion.
You did not notice or somehow overlooked where I was asking a question about the veracity of this website. I quote myself:
"Can this be for real??"
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It's true... 10 CFR 430.32(d)
Click to expand...

Thank you for locating the section of code, Kent. Very helpful. I had no idea it was so all encompassing.

I have to wonder if the fed's goal here is a boost-the-economy-thing under the guise of saving the environment. Reminds me of the CARS program - cash for clunkers.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Thank you for locating the section of code, Kent. Very helpful. I had no idea it was so all encompassing.

I have to wonder if the fed's goal here is a boost-the-economy-thing under the guise of saving the environment. Reminds me of the CARS program - cash for clunkers.
Click to expand...

Not really anything like cash for clunkers. Just standards for manufacturer, more along the lines of the corporate fuel economy targets or light bulb energy requirements. There's no requirement or incentives to deal with units already manufactured or installed.

Nor is it the first time this has happened. There were previous targets set in 2004.
 
A lot of times, it's an industry itself that lobbies for federal laws regulating such picayune details of their business. They'd rather have one set of idiotic rules than 50 sets of idiotic rules to follow. The toilet tank laws are another example.

Rich
 
cowman said:
Heh, I've never seen a house with a water heater in the attic before.
Click to expand...

I never owned a home where it was not in the Attic...guess its a Texas thing....
 
Warlock said:
I never owned a home where it was not in the Attic...guess its a Texas thing....
Click to expand...

Ironic. Facing this very thing right now at our beach house in Virginia. Gas hot water heater is in the attic - 14 years old. Small, "cubby" sized attic access door. Preparing to proactively replace it, since effectively past the end of its useful life.

New units are wider. A lot of replacement units are electronic ignition, so I'll need to wire up a 120V outlet. Then there is the potential for vent changes. What should be a $750 swap will end up costing $2,500.

The quote for a tankless gas heater - $4,000.
 
Warlock said:
I never owned a home where it was not in the Attic...guess its a Texas thing....
Click to expand...

It's a southern thing. A lot of houses in the south were built with water lines running through the attic because it's easy and cheaper. 99.99% of the time life is good. Then a hard freeze comes along and your insurance company takes a beating.
 
It's not just the ignition, most of the high efficiency gas burners need fans.

I do have a Rinnai in one of my houses. Works well. The heater sitting on the wall of the garage.
 
cowman said:
Heh, I've never seen a house with a water heater in the attic before.
Click to expand...

RJM62 said:
A lot of times, it's an industry itself that lobbies for federal laws regulating such picayune details of their business. They'd rather have one set of idiotic rules than 50 sets of idiotic rules to follow. The toilet tank laws are another example.
Click to expand...

And to many, new regulations mean more sales of more expensive stuff. Witness the press release in the original post.

Warlock said:
I never owned a home where it was not in the Attic...guess its a Texas thing....
Click to expand...

When I lived in San Antonio, we had 2 water heaters. The main unit was in a closet on the outside of the house (accessible only from the outside), the other was in the attic.
 
Got rid of the house with the heater in the attic last year. I agree it's insanity, but you won't find the plumbing people complaining. It gives them high paying jobs.

I'm sure someone will start making one that will fit through attic door if they haven't already. Make it more squarish and you can get the same or larger tank with the required insulation. Or have installable insulation panels that are added after getting it I to the attic. Maybe inflatables ones.

It's not a hard problem to solve.

But do we really need the government egging us on? What is the purpose?
 
Attic in all homes is the warmest place in the house. Best location to put a device that warms water from ambient.
 
bflynn said:
Got rid of the house with the heater in the attic last year. I agree it's insanity, but you won't find the plumbing people complaining. It gives them high paying jobs.

I'm sure someone will start making one that will fit through attic door if they haven't already. Make it more squarish and you can get the same or larger tank with the required insulation. Or have installable insulation panels that are added after getting it I to the attic. Maybe inflatables ones.

It's not a hard problem to solve.

But do we really need the government egging us on? What is the purpose?
Click to expand...


A Water heater is a pressure vessel required to withstand 300+ PSI bursting pressures......

A round shape is fast ,easy and cheap to produce... Start making them NOT round and the price goes up ALOT....:yikes::yikes::hairraise:
 
docmirror said:
Attic in all homes is the warmest place in the house. Best location to put a device that warms water from ambient.
Click to expand...

It's also one of the worst places to have a failure or gas leak.
 
Sac Arrow said:
It's also one of the worst places to have a failure or gas leak.
Click to expand...

I'd have two of them do so (water) in the past 14 years. Yeah, real smart putting it in the attic. And who heats the ****ing attic that it's the warmest place in the house?!?!?!
 
EdFred said:
I'd have two of them do so (water) in the past 14 years. Yeah, real smart putting it in the attic. And who heats the ****ing attic that it's the warmest place in the house?!?!?!
Click to expand...

Me too and it's a minor PITA getting it out of the garage. It would have been a complete disaster if it was in the attic, or an inside closet. The next time it goes it's going to be a real doozey - the cheap plastic drain valve stem broke so I won't be able to drain it.
 
Most of the water heaters in Oklahoma homes are in a closet in the garage, or in an interior closet in the home. If the water heater leaks, it's in the garage and does minimal damage. When installed in the interior of the home, it's an excellent way to get new drywall and carpet installed, lol.

I've never been in an attic that was warmer than the interior of the house, except when it was hot outside (i.e. in summer).
 
Sac Arrow said:
Me too and it's a minor PITA getting it out of the garage. It would have been a complete disaster if it was in the attic, or an inside closet. The next time it goes it's going to be a real doozey - the cheap plastic drain valve stem broke so I won't be able to drain it.
Click to expand...


I changed one in a customers house a few months back.... The cheap valve did the same thing... I was going to just drill a hole through the middle of it but got a hammer and cold punch and knocked that sucker into the tank.... Had it drained in about 10 minutes....
 
N801BH said:
I changed one in a customers house a few months back.... The cheap valve did the same thing... I was going to just drill a hole through the middle of it but got a hammer and cold punch and knocked that sucker into the tank.... Had it drained in about 10 minutes....
Click to expand...

I might just do that. The fallback would be just to wrench it off the tank. Why they would put a plastic stem is beyond me.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I might just do that. The fallback would be just to wrench it off the tank. Why they would put a plastic stem is beyond me.
Click to expand...


I tried to wrench this one off too but the ENTIRE valve was plastic, not just the stem.... If the engineer who specs that valve out would have been close when I beat the plastic valve out,,,, I probably would have used him /her for the cold punch...:mad2:......:D
 
EdFred said:
I'd have two of them do so (water) in the past 14 years. Yeah, real smart putting it in the attic. And who heats the ****ing attic that it's the warmest place in the house?!?!?!
Click to expand...

No one heats it on purpose, but heat rises. Why do you think there are vents/fans in the attic? Unless you put it inside the living space? Even more regs as I recall if the water heater is in the living space. Venting, raised platform, ignition safety, etc.

In Texas, pretty much every home is air conditioned, and the attic is about 40-60F hotter than the house, and maybe 30F hotter than the garage. No basements in TX, where this article discusses the options.
 
docmirror said:
No one heats it on purpose, but heat rises. Why do you think there are vents/fans in the attic? Unless you put it inside the living space? Even more regs as I recall if the water heater is in the living space. Venting, raised platform, ignition safety, etc.

In Texas, pretty much every home is air conditioned, and the attic is about 40-60F hotter than the house, and maybe 30F hotter than the garage. No basements in TX, where this article discusses the options.
Click to expand...

Right now my attic is probably 50 degrees COLDER than the rest of the house, and no fans in it either. I have none of those "safety" issues on my two water heaters which are main floor. Sits on the floor, etc...
 
Last edited:
RJM62 said:
A lot of times, it's an industry itself that lobbies for federal laws regulating such picayune details of their business. They'd rather have one set of idiotic rules than 50 sets of idiotic rules to follow. The toilet tank laws are another example.

Rich
Click to expand...

Going from 3 prong 220v plugs to 4 prong is another. In the history of man kind no one was every hurt with a 3 prong, but the plug makers decided it was dangerous. :rolleyes:
 
EdFred said:
Right now my attic is probably 50 degrees COLDER than the rest of the house, and no fans in it either. I have none of those "safety" issues on my two water heaters which are main floor. Sits on the floor, etc...
Click to expand...

I don't think you're in TX.

Bet if you have your water heater replaced, it'll need to be raised, and shielded, and some other stuff. But, I don't know the regs where you are. In CA now, a homeowner can't even replace his water heater himself(unless he's a cert plumber). I've had to do three water heaters in CA over the years, and two in TX and the rules have gotten tougher with each repl.
 
docmirror said:
I don't think you're in TX.

Bet if you have your water heater replaced, it'll need to be raised, and shielded, and some other stuff. But, I don't know the regs where you are. In CA now, a homeowner can't even replace his water heater himself(unless he's a cert plumber). I've had to do three water heaters in CA over the years, and two in TX and the rules have gotten tougher with each repl.
Click to expand...

Nope. I'm not. It's funny how people think that whatever situation applies to them applies to everyone in the entire country. And negative on the needing to raise it, especially when I replace it myself.
 
EdFred said:
Nope. I'm not. It's funny how people think that whatever situation applies to them applies to everyone in the entire country. And negative on the needing to raise it, especially when I replace it myself.
Click to expand...

Man you're like a Terrier with the toy in it's mouth. It is funny when people comment on something from the OPs link as if they were the only person in the world and the globe was spinning just around them.

http://myimages.bravenet.com/730/21...earthxrevolvesxaroundxthexsunxxnotxpeople.jpg

buh-bye
 
Geico266 said:
Going from 3 prong 220v plugs to 4 prong is another. In the history of man kind no one was every hurt with a 3 prong, but the plug makers decided it was dangerous. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Not to mention you need to run another conductor back to the panel... That usually gets DAMN expensive...:yikes:
 
What retard puts a water heater in the attic? I guess in TX you take advantage of the latent heat, but still, what a PITA on a leak or service.
 
If a manufacturer wanted, they could take advantage of this and market a longer, skinnier, one that mounts at an angle with legs. The issue is that the manufacturers kept the same tank dimensions and made a bigger shield for the insulation.
 
docmirror said:
Man you're like a Terrier with the toy in it's mouth. It is funny when people comment on something from the OPs link as if they were the only person in the world and the globe was spinning just around them.

http://myimages.bravenet.com/730/21...earthxrevolvesxaroundxthexsunxxnotxpeople.jpg

buh-bye
Click to expand...

docmirror said:
Attic in all homes is the warmest place in the house. Best location to put a device that warms water from ambient.
Click to expand...

Because you're obviously blind, and suffering from stupid people disease I requoted for you, and highlighted

I'm a million percent sure people in ME, NH, VT, RI, PA, NY, NJ, MI, OH....hell probably everywhere but Texas...don't put water heaters in the
attic. Now whose world is rotating around them?
 
Henning said:
If a manufacturer wanted, they could take advantage of this and market a longer, skinnier, one that mounts at an angle with legs. The issue is that the manufacturers kept the same tank dimensions and made a bigger shield for the insulation.
Click to expand...

Longer and skinnier = more surface area/volume = higher costs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top