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Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Martin Pauly, Jun 20, 2020.
So it wasn't the APS guys who invented this?.....lol
Now THERE'S a thread drift
Madison, WI (Jet Room Restaurant) makes excellent Eggs Benedict. Do your travels ever take you there, Kevin?
Maybe if you run LOP you will get 2,600 hours too.
Also, remember, @Martin Pauly was buying an upgrade, although I don't know if that implies any extra costs or not.
Very interesting. Thanks.
LOP was was widely used in the 1940s and 1950s, to extend aircraft range in WWII and later in the piston engine airliner days. Some of the research and technical data was classified during the war because the knowledge of LOP provided a strategic military advantage. The jet age changed all that, and LOP was mostly forgotten - until the "Three Amigos" (George, Walter and John - the "APS Class") resurrected the topic, produced fresh data in George's test stand, and began teaching it to a larger group of pilots again.
My $80K price should not be an indication of what's coming your way. Beyond the engine, I had to get a new prop, new prop governor, the conversion STC, the "unlike core fee", and the baffle kit. Plus labor to install it. Just swapping out the engine and replacing it with a factory-reman IO-550-B probably would be right around $50K. And a field overhaul can be had for less than that.
Is that what they told you?.... lol
Your timing was just ever so slightly off They are currently running a "core amnesty" program (http://continental.aero/avgas/Amnesty/) that includes waiving the dissimilar core fee. I managed to get in on it for my Vitatoe 520->550 upgrade for my T210L. $3500 is a drop in the bucket, but it paid for my standby alternator.
Congrats on your upgrade BTW! I look forward to watching a video on more of your impressions after you get through the break-in.
My post was intended to be tongue-in-cheek. Too many took it seriously.
300 hp of NA IO-550 should be plenty for any Bonanza. And it's probably less expensive to buy a B36TC than retrofit an 'A' if one really hankers for a turbocharged Bo.
Before I joined my current partnership in the 'plain' A36 with a 550, I owned a share in a A36TC with the TSIO520. The turbo does have its benefits, in the summer you climb to 12-15k and just cruise along at 75%. You pick up some speed and climb rate. To get that, you spend more on fuel and maintenance. The TC withe the heated prop and oxygen was also nose-heavy and seemed to like the runway.
Having owned both, I prefer the NA. For someone who has a regular 'milk run' in the 400-500nm range, the added speed may be worth the trade-offs that come with the turbo.
Are you insinuating that Charles Lindbergh is more famous than Martin Pauly?
I fly an A36 where we did a similar conversion, with roughly the same engine times we had about 2700 on the IO-520 when it came out because people were looking for an upgrade rather than based on need. We found that we needed to be very attentive to oil analysis. Twice since the new engine went in, around the 100-200 hour mark, we started to see lifters showing up in the oil. It turns out that the lifter bores were not properly aligned between the case halves and that led to 2 full tear downs before we bought a new case. 1800 hours since and no problems
That's what "very rich mixtures" and the altitudes that you fly for break-in will do. I run my IO-550 (280hp) at 65% LOP at about 12 GPH in cruise. Takeoff fuel flow is about 25 GPH.
The airplane manufacturer or the engine manufacturer?
Unless you need a new prop, governor, and an upgrade STC, it'll be much less than $80K. The actual overhaul price, at least for my G, is about $39K right now. With R&R, that'll make it about $45K, and with the other things one does during overhaul I'm expecting it to be about $50K all in.
Airplane manufacturer, which I believe follows the engine manufacturer who warrantees the engine.
The airplane manufacturers want your airplane to go as fast as they told you it would...
BTW, FWIW, book best economy procedure on my Mooney with the IO-550 is lean of peak.
Like I said, not my airplane, I try to respect how the owner wants it flown. For the NA 22, it's 75%, 75ROP, 65% 50LOP, the speed between the two settings is really not big of a delta, for a 100 nautical miles it's probably less than 5 minutes.
Yup. I have the IO-550-G, the SR22 has the IO-550-N. Only difference is the prop and governor, the N spins 2700 RPM to develop 310hp whereas the G maxes out at 2500 RPM for 280hp.
For me, at optimum altitude I do 175 KTAS on 12 gph at best economy. Best power gets me 185 KTAS, but bumps it up to 17 gph, and probably an early engine overhaul too!
What airplane are you in and what altitude for those numbers, those are good speeds.
Mooney Ovation, 9000 feet. I usually plan 170 as I fly a lot of shorter trips where I won't get that high.
My best leg in terms of speed and efficiency was from New Mexico back to Wisconsin nonstop in 4:37 on 53.1 gallons of 100LL, truing 172 KTAS on 10.1 gph at 13,000 feet.
@Martin Pauly - thanks for sharing! I was surprised the downtime was only a month. I figured it would be longer but that's probably if you are having your old motor rebuilt vs the exchange you did for the 550. Was also wondering if you mind sharing the prop and governor costs separately from the rest. I was going to guess it to be close to $20K just for the prop and governor but maybe it was less than that?
The engine and prop sitting on the shop floor in crates when you drop off the plane is what allows you to get this done in a few weeks. You would think that it only takes a few days, but once you take out an engine that has rattled around for 2500hrs, it seems to be quite common that you find some things that 'need fixed'. In our case, there was some fatigue cracking at one of the motor mounts and there were many shop hours required to make the baffles fit the engine. The other monkey-wrench is when things what you didn't plan on replacing or overhauling have to be sent out. 5 years later, we had to 'repair' the engine and that took a lot longer as it involved two-way shipping and component NDT at the engine shop.
For my engine exchange the time issue was in the ordering process. It took about 3 1/2 months from order time to new engine arrival. But during that time I had ordered and received new engine mounts, a new heating pad for the oil sump, a new oil cooler, a new hose kit and had the prop hub and governor flushed. So when the engine did show up the shop spent less than one week hanging it and ready to fly.