My father-in-law flipped out at me for taking my wife up during an Airmet Tango

Thank you @denverpilot. Great advice. As much as I still want to scream at him for the way he acted, I'm just going to let it go. I don't want to lose that Delta captain inheritance lol.


Mass Pilot,

Back in 1971 I married the love of my life and soul mate against the wishes of her parents. They eschewed the wedding and didn't speak to us for three years afterward.
She's agreed not to get him involved in my go/no-go decision again and regrets doing it this time. Now I'm not sure if she'll go along with not telling her parents that we're going flying, but I'll try to get her to at least wait until just prior to engine start.

Imo, that's the best way to handle it. FIL seems to be the controlling type. The less he knows about your plans the better as long as you and your wife agree.
 
I'm sorry. I should have been more sensitive than that. :p

Should I label one "Henning"? I don't even know this character but he gets drug into a lot of threads and has quite a reputation from what I gather.


Sure, I don't know him either. And you can keep Timmy. Anyone of dating age that still wants to be called Timmy deserves to have their grapes in a jar. ;)
 
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I am NOT and have never been an airline pilot. I am NOT the father-in-law of the OP. What of that do you idiot morons not understand!? Never mind. The people on this site just don't meet my standards. I have wasted my time here but that is easy to fix.

LOL. INTJ officially got his Jimmies rustled. :)

She's agreed not to get him involved in my go/no-go decision again and regrets doing it this time. Now I'm not sure if she'll go along with not telling her parents that we're going flying, but I'll try to get her to at least wait until just prior to engine start.

Next flight... he'll quickly go pull up weather maps and send a her text mid-flight that you're going to die if you don't land immediately! LOL LOL LOL.

Tell her to post it on Facebook and he's less likely to see it for a few hours. Hahaha. If he's too old for Facebook, even better. :)
 
Question, does INTJ = I'm Not Too Judgemental?

Tim
 
So glad it isn't just me. Folks weren't terribly thrilled by much I did in life.
Basically I'm just not going to mention it to him again, but if it comes up my response will be, "I made a very informed and rational decision that it was safe to fly that day and I stand by that decision. I'm sorry if you disagree".
First, you are obviously charting the correct course. The real shame here is you and your FIL have a huge shared aviation experience even if you're on two different ends of it. That's a wonderful basis of commonality that your FIL shredded in an instant in a melodramatic and poorly thought out way. A real pity.
 
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My buddies dad is the same way. Former military pilot and retired from United Airlines. He thinks the GA planes are suicidal and too dangerous and flat out refuses to fly in them.

He thinks motorcycles are too dangerous as well and I would say GA is probably about as risky when it comes to your mortality so at least he isn't biased.
 
That's sad. At my regional there are quite a few captains and FOs that still fly GA. Some are still active instructors and own their own aircraft. They all have a civilian background FWIW. Even some of the pilots I've met when I jumpseat on legacies fly a little bit of GA.
 
You're going to run into things that weren't predicted many times if you fly long enough. Have plan B, C, D and E ready for all contingencies.

My worst flight ever was a local night flight over to the Class C for currency. Weather check and follow-up with FSS indicated no wind whatsoever and clear and a million. After 3rd stop-n-go, winds kicked upto to 50+ and I had to cross the mountain to get home (not bad). Super ASOS reported direct crosswind at home 29G35 (which I've done daytime only) on 5 mile final. Made an approach pass, planning on landing if it wasn't ugly, and bugging out if it was ... before I got near the runway I hit LLWS and lost 100 feet in about a second - re-clicked Super ASOS and got message "Updated weather, winds 45G59". Bugged out to the next town up (no wind), spent the night in the plane and returned in calm conditions at 6am.

Holy cow
 
In my opinion AIRMET Tango is a reason to look into weather more carefully. In other words if you didn’t check into it further I agree with the father in law, it was risky.

If a student came to me and told me this story and immediately started defending himself when I suggested AIRMET Tango was a reason for caution and to look more carefully for weather challenges I too would suggest he was a risk taker.

If I was in the original posters position I would ask the father in law for advice on how to mitigate risk because I didn’t want to risk his daughter’s life. If he comes up with completely crazy suggestions you don’t have to follow them.

In my opinion being concerned about AIRMET Tango is not a completely crazy suggestion; if his advice is to just not fly in any AIRMET Tango that is not practical.

Give him a little win and let him know that you have listened to his advice.
 
Basically I'm just not going to mention it to him again, but if it comes up my response will be, "I made a very informed and rational decision that it was safe to fly that day and I stand by that decision. I'm sorry if you disagree".
One suggestion - loose the "sorry if you disagree". You ain't asking forgiveness or permission. Just telling him straight, making it clear it's your call. Make it a bit of an issue, make it known that attitude doesn't fly. Back him off a bit, if he isn't smart enough to do so on his own snd brings it up again.
 
I never mentioned "Airmet Tango" (that would be gibberish to her). I mentioned that there was a warning out for the possibility of some turbulence. I tried to emphasize multiple times it was just a comfort issue and not a safety issue.

I will say that my wife calls her parents almost every day (often more than once) and tends to run things by them constantly, even her own decisions. I've been trying to get her to cool it with that.

Yeah my wife is a little like that.....drives me nuts, but she is getting better. I don't think it's healthy
 
In my opinion AIRMET Tango is a reason to look into weather more carefully. In other words if you didn’t check into it further I agree with the father in law, it was risky.

If a student came to me and told me this story and immediately started defending himself when I suggested AIRMET Tango was a reason for caution and to look more carefully for weather challenges I too would suggest he was a risk taker.

If I was in the original posters position I would ask the father in law for advice on how to mitigate risk because I didn’t want to risk his daughter’s life. If he comes up with completely crazy suggestions you don’t have to follow them.

In my opinion being concerned about AIRMET Tango is not a completely crazy suggestion; if his advice is to just not fly in any AIRMET Tango that is not practical.

Give him a little win and let him know that you have listened to his advice.

OP did do more research, he was THOROUGHLY educated on current conditions before going up. He go PIREPs from pilots just coming down. He has every right to defend his position. He never said the AIRMET Tango was no reason for concern.
 
That's sad. At my regional there are quite a few captains and FOs that still fly GA. Some are still active instructors and own their own aircraft. They all have a civilian background FWIW. Even some of the pilots I've met when I jumpseat on legacies fly a little bit of GA.
The DPE for my private checkride was a Delta 737 captain. He also flew Citations for a charter company. Great guy and he seemed like a strong supporter of GA. I'm not sure if he's ex-military or not.
 
My advice : don't listen to lots of these guys here. Your family is the most important thing at least that's what I believe in. The deep scars in the family start out with trivial issues and before you know the family is split apart. I think one of the best way is to take him up flying on a similar day with some turbulence and show him your good piloting skills. I know you said that he will never go up in SEL airplanes but nothing is written in the stone. After all he loves airplanes that's why he chose airline career.
 
My advice : don't listen to lots of these guys here. Your family is the most important thing at least that's what I believe in. The deep scars in the family start out with trivial issues and before you know the family is split apart. I think one of the best way is to take him up flying on a similar day with some turbulence and show him your good piloting skills. I know you said that he will never go up in SEL airplanes but nothing is written in the stone. After all he loves airplanes that's why he chose airline career.
Believe me the last thing I want to do is destroy our relationship over this. We've gotten along very well until this incident.

I'm worried that if he ever did get in a plane with me that he would pick apart every little mistake I made. I don't think I'm quite capable of flying to ATP standards just yet and it wouldn't surprise me if he found anything less unacceptable. It would be very intimidating to say the least.
 
Conversely, the USAF guys being trained by the USN thought it was a fun program, but they were behind their peers when they returned to the USAF.

But they still could not land on a carrier . . . at night. In bad weather.
 
I am NOT and have never been an airline pilot. I am NOT the father-in-law of the OP. What of that do you idiot morons not understand!? Never mind. The people on this site just don't meet my standards. I have wasted my time here but that is easy to fix.

You're just becoming a characature of the USAF trained officer and pilot . . . . bwaaahh
 
I'm worried that if he ever did get in a plane with me that he would pick apart every little mistake I made. I don't think I'm quite capable of flying to ATP standards just yet and it wouldn't surprise me if he found anything less unacceptable. It would be very intimidating to say the least.

After 25 years he's prob not either - but I bet he's really good at pushing the FLCH button. . . . or programing the FMS. They spend time in the Sim to practice button pushing and emerg procedures - not actually flying an airplane.
 
After 25 years he's prob not either - but I bet he's really good at pushing the FLCH button. . . . or programing the FMS. They spend time in the Sim to practice button pushing and emerg procedures - not actually flying an airplane.
Should I tell him that? :)
 
One suggestion - loose the "sorry if you disagree". You ain't asking forgiveness or permission.

"Sorry if you disagree" is usually a more polite way to say "too bad" rather than asking forgiveness.
 
My advice : don't listen to lots of these guys here. Your family is the most important thing at least that's what I believe in. The deep scars in the family start out with trivial issues and before you know the family is split apart. I think one of the best way is to take him up flying on a similar day with some turbulence and show him your good piloting skills. I know you said that he will never go up in SEL airplanes but nothing is written in the stone. After all he loves airplanes that's why he chose airline career.
I think you are assuming facts not in evidence. From what I've read, it seems like he doesn't like flying at all. Lots of people "end up" in jobs, simply because it is what they can do.

Furthermore, I can agree with you that family is important. But part of that means respect between adults. OP's father in law acted like a child.
 
After 25 years he's prob not either - but I bet he's really good at pushing the FLCH button. . . . or programing the FMS. They spend time in the Sim to practice button pushing and emerg procedures - not actually flying an airplane.
Partially true. More importantly, perhaps is that, as I said above, he has DIFFERENT experience.

Here's what's PROBABLY true: Although he can fly big iron professionally, he'd probably need at least a few hours to fly and land a single engine prop.
 
Partially true. More importantly, perhaps is that, as I said above, he has DIFFERENT experience.

Here's what's PROBABLY true: Although he can fly big iron professionally, he'd probably need at least a few hours to fly and land a single engine prop.
yup - flying big fast airplanes into large airport with long runways and state of the art navaids does make you lazy when it comes to stick and rudder skills.

That said - there are many airports which are Captain only - special certification which require good and reliable skills to to safely operate. . . .

I'm not saying ALL long term high time airline captain lack skills - cause its not true. But in my experience, those with the most rigid attitudes also seem to not be as sharp as they could be. . .
 
Not all professional pilots have a love for flying. My brother-in-law is a retired USCG Captain. He learned at Pensacola in piston engine a/c and his first assignment was flying HU-16 Albatross. He then got rotary wing qualified before moving into C-130s. He was factory acceptance test pilot for USGC for the USCG HU-25 Falcon. Went back to C-130s. Commanded USCG Air Station in California. Flew all the time.

He retired some 15-20 years ago and hasn't flown since. While he says he misses it, he has made no attempt to fly and won't even go flying with family members who are active pilots.

A good friend/former neighbor retired from USAF after a 20+ year career and didn't even consider continuing to fly. He works for an oil company as a ground bound manager. I also have numerous classmates who were Army Aviators (some both rotary and fixed wing) qualified who simply walked away to never fly again.

On the other hand, I have several retired USAF/USN/USA pilot friends who are now active or retired FedEx pilots who flew GA during their military and civil careers and continue to own/fly in retirement.
 
"Sorry if you disagree" is usually a more polite way to say "too bad" rather than asking forgiveness.
Concur, it's more polite, if somewhat lame, or at least confrontation avoidance. I don't know the dynamic between them of course - but a firm push back, without ambiguity might/might be in order. Reset the relationship as one between adult peers. FIL is not his parent or supervisor, and the comments about his judgement beyond aviation are condscending. OP's call, of course, and he'd know what's best for his situation, but I'd want to shut that crap down. Might cause some friction; it'll pass, or it won't.
 
OP did do more research, he was THOROUGHLY educated on current conditions before going up. He go PIREPs from pilots just coming down. He has every right to defend his position. He never said the AIRMET Tango was no reason for concern.
The point I was trying to make was that the father in law only heard his daughter say that the original poster said turbulence was not a safety issue so if I were in the situation of the original poster I would give the father in law that and ask him for help in becoming a safer pilot instead of being combative about what a safe pilot he is. It appears to me the father in law did not have all the information when he made his call and may be resistant to walking it back as long as the original poster makes it a black and white argument.
 
The point I was trying to make was that the father in law only heard his daughter say that the original poster said turbulence was not a safety issue so if I were in the situation of the original poster I would give the father in law that and ask him for help in becoming a safer pilot instead of being combative about what a safe pilot he is. It appears to me the father in law did not have all the information when he made his call and may be resistant to walking it back as long as the original poster makes it a black and white argument.
I told him every detail of what went into my decision to go and he didn't care. I don't think he was even interested in what I had to say once I decided to go against his wishes.
 
I told him every detail of what went into my decision to go and he didn't care. I don't think he was even interested in what I had to say once I decided to go against his wishes.
I have found that when discussing emotionally charged issues from divergent perspectives I do best when starting with the merits of the other person’s point of view and moving toward mine rather than simply saying they are wrong at the outset. I feel questions have more value than statements.
 
I don't think it has anything to do with FIL's or other airline pilots' skills. Their skills are different. People who fly airlines, or even jets in general, get used to the redundancy and performance necessary in their operation. For example, Part 25 jets can't legally begin a takeoff if they can't either stop or continue in the event of an engine failure. So you can imagine what SOME pilots think about flying single engine airplanes. I have had pilots I worked with give me the questioning eye when I would tell them I spent a lot of time (1000s of hours) flying single-engine pistons in the mountains in the past.
 
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Not all professional pilots have a love for flying.

Remember, for most of us here, this is our HOBBY. If you're a dive master or golf pro, you probably won't spend your off time diving or golfing ... hell, even if you were a porno star, you probably aren't going to ... oh never mind ....:confused::confused:
 
After 25 years he's prob not either - but I bet he's really good at pushing the FLCH button. . . . or programing the FMS. They spend time in the Sim to practice button pushing and emerg procedures - not actually flying an airplane.
True but I am sure every pilot at the top had gone through the grueling process of hand flying some lowly airplanes during earlier years. While ago my instrument instructor and good friend who started flying a turboprop for regional one day called me to see I can pick him up from FWA airport. When I went to pick him up it was pitch black night with may be 1 mile vis and 100 ft. ceiling. On the way back we started talking about the approach. I was assuming he had nice autopilot and made cat II kind of approach. I was surprised to find out that they hand flew the approach because the airplane did not have an auto pilot. I
 
I told him every detail of what went into my decision to go and he didn't care. I don't think he was even interested in what I had to say once I decided to go against his wishes.

I would opine that it's his mind set based on his time in heavy aircraft and no recent experience in small ones. You are not likely to change his mind so the course of action I would take is to not discuss flights with him other than telling him where the two of you went. His mind appears to be closed to opinions he differs with. If your wife feels safe flying with you your FIL's input is of no significance. She needs to stop asking for his advice. Kids need advice, but once they are grown up they should be left to make decisions, right or wrong, on their own. Daddy needs to zip his lip.

My FIL was the controlling sort. His daughter eventually told him to F.O.
 
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