My Bad

N521MA

N521MA

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
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FlyBoy
Passed my Checkride today and decided to take my dad for nice evening trip NY-PA-NY. We waited a year and a half for this trip!

NY Approach was extremely accommodating (love and respect to these folks!!!) and let us transition via their JFK Class Bravo airspace both ways. They actually almost let us overfly their field!!! Very scenic and uneventful flight.

However, as I was coming back to my home airport in NY, tower was already closed and airfield turned Class Echo. I kept announcing myself on the CTAF, but could not hear anyone. Radio seemed to be working, yet was silent (volume checked/freq. checked)). I continued announcing every transition to final and finally landed, still not hearing anyone.

As I landed, airport was pitch black and I took the wrong turn (as I thought). God bless ForeFlight, which I used to do a 180 on one of the taxi ways and finally got to my home ramp.

As I was parking my plane, airport (security/management), not sure exactly which authority, as he did have a badge, but it was pitch black and he did not identify himself, rushed in his truck with flashing lights to me and my Dad, got out and basically started screaming at me - why didn't I answer to anyone....and we did hear you, but you would not answer...., you could have caused a major accident!!!! And do you realize you landed on a wrong runway!!!! You said 32, but landed on runway 1!!!!

I apologized, several times, could not explain why I could not hear anyone, and how I screwed runway 32 with runway 1, which is obviously my fault and explains exactly why I got lost on taxi ways in the first place....

He wrote down my tail number, got in his truck and left.

There is no doubt I screwed up, and feel ashamed for the pilot error that I made, aside from plain and blunt embarrassment....

Do you think I am in a lot of trouble? Should I call the tower in the morning in apologize again?

Any suggestions? First real flight with pax and I feel like a complete IDIOT!!!!








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N521MA said:
Passed my Checkride today and decided to take my dad for nice evening trip NY-PA-NY. We waited a year and a half for this trip!

NY Approach was extremely accommodating (love and respect to these folks!!!) and let us transition via their JFK Class Bravo airspace both ways. They actually almost let us overfly their field!!! Very scenic and uneventful flight.

However, as I was coming back to my home airport in NY, tower was already closed and airfield turned Class Echo. I kept announcing myself on the CTAF, but could not hear anyone. Radio seemed to be working, yet was silent (volume checked/freq. checked)). I continued announcing every transition to final and finally landed, still not hearing anyone.

As I landed, airport was pitch black and I took the wrong turn (as I thought). God bless ForeFlight, which I used to do a 180 on one of the taxi ways and finally got to my home ramp.

As I was parking my plane, airport (security/management), not sure exactly which authority, as he did have a badge, but it was pitch black and he did not identify himself, rushed in his truck with flashing lights to me and my Dad, got out and basically started screaming at me - why didn't I answer to anyone....and we did hear you, but you would not answer...., you could have caused a major accident!!!! And do you realize you landed on a wrong runway!!!! You said 32, but landed on runway 1!!!!

I apologized, several times, could not explain why I could not hear anyone, and how I screwed runway 32 with runway 1, which is obviously my fault and explains exactly why I got lost on taxi ways in the first place....

He wrote down my tail number, got in his truck and left.

There is no doubt I screwed up, and feel ashamed for the pilot error that I made, aside from plain and blunt embarrassment....

Do you think I am in a lot of trouble? Should I call the tower in the morning in apologize again?

Any suggestions? First real flight with pax and I feel like a complete IDIOT!!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...


With no tower aren't you the one who decides which runway to use?


Security isn't ATC.
 
Tom-D said:
With no tower aren't you the one who decides which runway to use?


Security isn't ATC.
Click to expand...

On the radio I said 32, but landed on 1 :(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
Sounds suspect to me. If the field was Class E, an incorrect radio transmission shouldn't amount to anything more than a slip up.

Who the hell was the angry security guy? "He wrote down my tail number, got in his truck and left." Did you get his name?

Don't let people who drive trucks with flashing lights intimidate you. Politely tell him you are sorry for the slip up, and that he can also go park his truck and then screw himself.
 
Last edited:
Do not call the tower. That's asking for trouble.

No accident happened, nothing was intentional on your part. File a ASRS form if you're that worried about it.

Next time, find out who it is that's asking questions. I don't mean be a pain in the ass, just respectfully ask for them to identify themselves.
 
spiderweb said:
Sounds suspect to me. If the field was Class E, an incorrect radio transmission shouldn't amount to anything more than a slip up.

Who the hell was the angry security guy? "He wrote down my tail number, got in his truck and left." Did you get his name?

Don't let people who drive trucks with flashing lights intimidate you. Politely tell him you are sorry for the slip up, and that he can also go park his truck and then screw himself.
Click to expand...

All I could make out that he had a green uniform and gold shield on chest shirt. Pickup truck had red stripes sand yellow/white flashers on the roof ... All I can recall. He was very upset, I must have apologized at least 7/8 times just calm him down, after which he wrote my tail and left.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
Good grief! Yes, what Ben said.
 
bqmassey said:
Do not call the tower. That's asking for trouble.

No accident happened, nothing was intentional on your part. File a ASRS form if you're that worried about it.

Next time, find out who it is that's asking questions. I don't mean be a pain in the ass, just respectfully ask for them to identify themselves.
Click to expand...
I get really short with these guys, ego driven and having an over inflated sense of self worth.

My bigger question is, why were all the lights off?

even the smallest rinky dink airports I go to have pilot controlled lighting, did you try to light the place up?

click click click click click

Oh I forgot, you are in NYC
 
N521MA said:
All I could make out that he had a green uniform and gold shield on chest shirt. Pickup truck had red stripes sand yellow/white flashers on the roof
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Click to expand...

Airport security, trying to intimidate
 
Tom-D said:
I get really short with these guys, ego driven and having an over inflated sense of self worth.

My bigger question is, why were all the lights off?

even the smallest rinky dink airports I go to have pilot controlled lighting, did you try to light the place up?

click click click click click

Oh I forgot, you are in NYC
Click to expand...

Both runways were lit up. Pure brainfart on my behalf... I deserve the yelling. Bet next I will check the runway heading 5 times while I am on final, but whats done is done.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
bnt83 said:
Sure sounds like it to me.
Click to expand...

Looked a lot like a state trooper. If he was security, why write down my tail?

What is he a rainman????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
Yup, the new extended centerline feature of FF would have helped a bunch. I can understand your desire to share your new abilities, but wonder if your ADM wasn't clouded by your exuberation. Undertaking a night flight with a passenger (was that even legal?) may not have been a good idea.
In my first 100 hours, I found that many of my bad decisions were driven by the need to show off my new skills. OK, show off.
I'd think you should hone your skills a bit, minus the passenger. Obviously, there was some sort of radio problem... likely on your part (volume?). The runway thing was common for a rookie, but not acceptable and dangerous.
 
CT4ME said:
Yup, the new extended centerline feature of FF would have helped a bunch. I can understand your desire to share your new abilities, but wonder if your ADM wasn't clouded by your exuberation. Undertaking a night flight with a passenger (was that even legal?) may not have been a good idea.
In my first 100 hours, I found that many of my bad decisions were driven by the need to show off my new skills. OK, show off.
I'd think you should hone your skills a bit, minus the passenger. Obviously, there was some sort of radio problem... likely on your part (volume?). The runway thing was common for a rookie, but not acceptable and dangerous.
Click to expand...

I can relate.... sadly.


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CT4ME said:
PS... congratulations on the Check Ride!
Click to expand...

:) thank you!

Another reason I am thinking is fatigue .... Sleepless night, 8am-1pm Checkride. Other activities during the day and a night 160mile XC... all perfect except few last minutes of XC. I knew it was a bad idea and should have waited a day, but when I finally saw acceptable VFR weather, after 3 rescheduled checkrides - I simply could not resist :) like I sad.... My bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
CT4ME said:
Undertaking a night flight with a passenger (was that even legal?) may not have been a good idea.
Click to expand...

Without debating the wisdom of said flight, what would be illegal about flying with a passenger at night? He passed his checkride, right?? I'm genuinely curious.
 
tangopapa said:
Without debating the wisdom of said flight, what would be illegal about flying with a passenger at night? He passed his checkride, right?? I'm genuinely curious.
Click to expand...

I think most likely the question is around having 3 nights landings to a full stop within 90 days in your log book....

I have them ;) I am legal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
N521MA said:
I think most likely the question is around having 3 nights landings to a full stop within 90 days in your log book....

I have them ;) I am legal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

A-ha! I see...:)
 
Do it again, and when he confronts you a second time punch him in the face. Then loudly proclaim "DONT GIVE ME NO BACKTALK SUCKAH!" A la B.A Barracus.
 
Can always file a ASRS form. To cover yourself if anything comes about....
 
N521MA said:
could not explain why I could not hear anyone,
Click to expand...
Some possibile causes:

-Volume turned down (not likely in your case since you had just been talking to NY approach)

-Radio stuck on transmit while you were making the pattern calls

-Frequency slightly off - if the CTAF was something like XXX.22 and you accidentally had your radio tuned to .20, they might have been able to hear you, but you couldn't hear them. I have seen/had that happen on occasion.
 
N521MA said:
Passed my Checkride today and decided to take my dad for nice evening trip NY-PA-NY. We waited a year and a half for this trip!

NY Approach was extremely accommodating (love and respect to these folks!!!) and let us transition via their JFK Class Bravo airspace both ways. They actually almost let us overfly their field!!! Very scenic and uneventful flight.

However, as I was coming back to my home airport in NY, tower was already closed and airfield turned Class Echo. I kept announcing myself on the CTAF, but could not hear anyone. Radio seemed to be working, yet was silent (volume checked/freq. checked)). I continued announcing every transition to final and finally landed, still not hearing anyone.

As I landed, airport was pitch black and I took the wrong turn (as I thought). God bless ForeFlight, which I used to do a 180 on one of the taxi ways and finally got to my home ramp.

As I was parking my plane, airport (security/management), not sure exactly which authority, as he did have a badge, but it was pitch black and he did not identify himself, rushed in his truck with flashing lights to me and my Dad, got out and basically started screaming at me - why didn't I answer to anyone....and we did hear you, but you would not answer...., you could have caused a major accident!!!! And do you realize you landed on a wrong runway!!!! You said 32, but landed on runway 1!!!!

I apologized, several times, could not explain why I could not hear anyone, and how I screwed runway 32 with runway 1, which is obviously my fault and explains exactly why I got lost on taxi ways in the first place....

He wrote down my tail number, got in his truck and left.

There is no doubt I screwed up, and feel ashamed for the pilot error that I made, aside from plain and blunt embarrassment....

Do you think I am in a lot of trouble? Should I call the tower in the morning in apologize again?

Any suggestions? First real flight with pax and I feel like a complete IDIOT!!!!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

Congrats on the passed checkride! You definately bit off a lot on this flight. A long XC at night through Kennedy's class Bravo is a bold choice for the first flight with passengers but it sounds like you shared a nice trip with your dad so that's good. I might suggest that flying locally with passengers is a good way to start gaining experience. Flying with someone next to you who can't help changes eveything. I took a bunch of people flying and I can tell you that a local flight is enough for most people to get a sense for flying and gives you experience flying with someone next to you without overwhelming you. Looks like we are from the same area( Long Island) so maybe even just some flights the North and South practice areas is a good way to get started. We are lucky that both these areas are so pretty that someone flying in them will love the experience.

As far as the incident, I just wrote a thread about a flight I took where I learned a ton and really advanced my skill set as a pilot. Sounds like you had a similar experience. You did not cause an incident so I would not worry about it. I guess you got lucky that you got a learning experience without causing a real problem.

Do you own the plane you fly? The tail number that matches your username is one that I have heard a bunch of times on the radio over at Islip. That plane certainly seems to fly a lot!
 
N521MA said:
:) thank you!

Another reason I am thinking is fatigue .... Sleepless night, 8am-1pm Checkride. Other activities during the day and a night 160mile XC... all perfect except few last minutes of XC. I knew it was a bad idea and should have waited a day, but when I finally saw acceptable VFR weather, after 3 rescheduled checkrides - I simply could not resist :) like I sad.... My bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

Never forget the IM SAFE personal assessment, and hopefully this experience has demonstrated to you how important that is. You knew it probably was not the best decision to make, yet you flew anyway. We ALL fall prey to this situation. You HAVE to "simply resist" temptations like this, and if you go for your instrument rating, the decisionmaking gets that much more complex and critical. Good on you for recognizing this after the fact, now work on acting on this before you make a decision to fly when all is not within your own safe personal limitations.

Go file an ASRS form, do it today, if you haven't done it already. Oh and, NEVER give information to anyone other than a formal inquiry from an FAA inspector. IF you ever get the famous ready to copy a phone number request, copy the number and seek advice first.

I am curious about which airport this took place. PM me if you want with the name of the field, if you don't want to reveal it publically. It might be one I fly into regularly around these parts.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Some possibile causes:

-Volume turned down (not likely in your case since you had just been talking to NY approach)

-Radio stuck on transmit while you were making the pattern calls

-Frequency slightly off - if the CTAF was something like XXX.22 and you accidentally had your radio tuned to .20, they might have been able to hear you, but you couldn't hear them. I have seen/had that happen on occasion.
Click to expand...
- Plug from headset got jostled and lost connection
 
Fearless Tower said:
Some possibile causes:

-Volume turned down (not likely in your case since you had just been talking to NY approach)

-Radio stuck on transmit while you were making the pattern calls

-Frequency slightly off - if the CTAF was something like XXX.22 and you accidentally had your radio tuned to .20, they might have been able to hear you, but you couldn't hear them. I have seen/had that happen on occasion.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that the security guy could have a problem too. Fried transmitter, mouth too far from the mic, batteries drained, etc.

Landing on a runway other than called on the radio? It happens and we all have to remember that we're all responsible for see and avoid. No one is required to talk on a radio at a pilot controlled field.

I like that you're thinking through all the contributing factors.

Finally and maybe most important: congrats on passing the checkride. Commit aviation frequently.
 
File ASRS form. Also complain to airport management about the guy in the truck. It should not be too hard to find out who the blowhard was. Yeah you screwed up, but actually there was no one else in the pattern, and so who cares. There was no reason for him to ream you out, whether or not he had the authority. If you truly screwed up, and he wants to discuss it with you it should be done in a civil manner, and really it should have take the form of you landed on a runway different than you announced expect a phone call from management. Take it as a lesson and be more careful next time. I must admit I am quite obsessive(always afraid of landing on the wrong runway) about make sure I am landing on the intended run way and in addition to using the moving map, I check my headings on downwind and final to make sure they are correct. I also check the runway number on downwind(difficult at night, but easy for the day), and on final(yeah too late to change the mistake). As for the blowhard, would have said to him thanks for the information, but I guess you missed me say final to runway one! Oh well, maybe you should check your radio or your hearing. Then again there is the best way to deal with self important blowhards, and say in your nicest sweetest voice thank you for the help, so sorry for the misunderstanding, and have a great day. He was looking for a fight, and not getting it will and not getting your goat will upset him more than anything else. However, I would not admit anything to him.

My bigger question is why is your radio not receiving, obviously it is transmitting?
 
N521MA said:
All I could make out that he had a green uniform and gold shield on chest shirt. Pickup truck had red stripes sand yellow/white flashers on the roof ... All I can recall. He was very upset, I must have apologized at least 7/8 times just calm him down, after which he wrote my tail and left.
Click to expand...

From the sound of it he was part of the parking lot sweeping crew. File the ASRS form and move on.

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/

Congrats on your ticket!
 
Clark1961 said:
Don't forget that the security guy could have a problem too. Fried transmitter, mouth too far from the mic, batteries drained, etc.
Click to expand...
That is a very good point too....if the only person who you aren't hearing on your radio is Barney Fife, then I wouldn't worry too much about it.
 
LDJones said:
From the sound of it he was part of the parking lot sweeping crew. File the ASRS form and move on.

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/

Congrats on your ticket!
Click to expand...

Is making a radio call for one runway and landing on another even a FAR violation at an uncontrolled field? If so i'd be writing down tail numbers left and right. Well, just for the ones that have an aggravating factor.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Some possibile causes:

-Volume turned down (not likely in your case since you had just been talking to NY approach)

-Radio stuck on transmit while you were making the pattern calls

-Frequency slightly off - if the CTAF was something like XXX.22 and you accidentally had your radio tuned to .20, they might have been able to hear you, but you couldn't hear them. I have seen/had that happen on occasion.
Click to expand...

AuntPeggy said:
- Plug from headset got jostled and lost connection
Click to expand...

- Blowhard was transmitting on the wrong frequency
- Blowhard didn't have his mike plugged in
- Blowhard radio or antenna was defective
- Blowhard was parked in an area that cast a radio shadow
 
dell30rb said:
Is making a radio call for one runway and landing on another even a FAR violation at an uncontrolled field? If so i'd be writing down tail numbers left and right. Well, just for the ones that have an aggravating factor.
Click to expand...
No, I don't think he violated anything.....but, all it takes is for the Barney Fife to go crying to the FAA and complain/manufacture details and then if the FSDO has nothing better to do than to go 'investigate'. Now it is his word against the blowhard. Submitting an ASRS costs him nothing other than a few minutes to fill it out and could help if the FSDO for whatever reason sides with the story as told by the blowhard.
 
Congratulations on your ticket and making a memory with your Dad! Don't mind the rent-a-cop. If he wanted to know why you didn't respond over the radio, instead of being belligerent, he could have asked a few questions or did a simple investigation of the transmission. He didn't want to resolve the issue. He took it as an opportunity assert the few ounces of authority he has. Who knows, you may have disturbed his nap.
 
DutchessFlier said:
Never forget the IM SAFE personal assessment, and hopefully this experience has demonstrated to you how important that is. You knew it probably was not the best decision to make, yet you flew anyway. We ALL fall prey to this situation. You HAVE to "simply resist" temptations like this, and if you go for your instrument rating, the decisionmaking gets that much more complex and critical. Good on you for recognizing this after the fact, now work on acting on this before you make a decision to fly when all is not within your own safe personal limitations.
Click to expand...
You did nothing illegal. You just landed on a different runway than you announced. A mistake, not even a bad after the tower closes. It's your airport at that point. The guy and the hollering were off the wall. Handle best you can but apology not even required. He needed a chill pill. FAA and ATC contact not required.

The legal stuff means little. The judgement thing is everything. Realize that all the missteps were the result of the decision you made to make that flight, on that day, with that passenger.

Years ago I flew to KHPN to pick up my late Dad for the Hudson tour. Like you, I have nothing but respect and fondness for NY ATC but when I missed a radio call on the way in, they made it clear where I needed to go if I couldn't keep up. Totally rattled, I pulled the C172 up to the KHPN airline gate (years ago). Got out to hug my beaming Dad, pick up his bags and get in the plane for our first flight together.... but I had locked the keys in the plane! Best moment of my life turned into 20 mins of embarrassment while a mechanic broke into the plane with a coat hanger in front of a couple dozen airline passengers.
 
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