My actual OSH costs — a little surprising

Van Johnston

Van Johnston

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Van Johnston
Sat down and added up the receipts this afternoon. $1,070 for fuel plus $650 for the dry rate we charge ourselves for total trip cost of $1,720. That includes out-of-the-way detour on the way home to fly Chicago shoreline and St Louis riverfront.

Then checked the cost if we had driven. 2,690 round trip road miles per Google maps times the IRS rate of 62.5 cents/mile equals $1,681. Less than $40 difference, which would have been more than eaten up by a hotel and meals on the road.

YMMV.
 
To be fair, the irs rate is about double what it costs to drive any reasonable car, so unless you were going to drive your brand new Mercedes g wagon, it certainly cost you more dollars to fly, but your point that it's not THAT much more expensive is well taken. The cost of going faster is exponential, and piston aircraft live just above cars where the curve starts to bend. I find the cost of flying my piston aircraft relatively reasonable once I account for hotel rooms and food on the road if I was driving. Also have to consider the value of your time. In my case flying with kids, the noise canceling headphones, isolation button, and fewer hours in the vehicle are all priceless.
 
Van, nothing personal but your accounting is pretty biased if your intent is to justify cost of flying over driving to OSH. And I don’t know where to begin to explain. To others reading this I am pretty sure you think this goes without saying. So instead think how much more fun it was to come in on a runway than from a parking lot to a entry gate maybe.
 
Jayboard said:
Van, nothing personal but your accounting is pretty biased if your intent is to justify cost of flying over driving to OSH. And I don’t know where to begin to explain. To others reading this I am pretty sure you think this goes without saying. So instead think how much more fun it was to come in on a runway than from a parking lot to a entry gate maybe.
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Where did I say was trying to justify the cost of flying over driving? I was always going to fly in, for all the intangible reasons mentioned. I never did a cost comparison ahead of time. That's why I subtitled the thread "a little surprising;" the actual numbers did not back up my assumption. I was surprised it was even close.

As far as the accounting being biased, what is your evidence for that? The numbers are what the numbers are. If your point is I did not assign a dollar value to the intangibles, then that is true, but that is not a bias as I understand the term. If your point is I didn't account for every nickel and dime, that is true too (ex: did not account for the 36 mi roundtrip to/from hangar).
 
A commercial flight and a rental would have been far cheaper. Same is true for me, but I don't fly my own plane for the economics.
 
Salty said:
A commercial flight and a rental would have been far cheaper. Same is true for me, but I don't fly my own plane for the economics.
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No doubt. I did this same math one year heading to Sun N Fun. The airplane costs were something like $1400. Or I could get a round-trip airline ticket for $200. Plus a rental car for another few hundred. It wasn't hard math, but then I was staying at a friend's house near the airport, not camping, so it made an easy decision to fly commercial. I felt the "experience" of flying in wasn't worth almost $1000, since I had done it multiple times already.

Now, we don't fly these planes we do because it's cheaper, but man, $1000 is $1000.
 
RussR said:
No doubt. I did this same math one year heading to Sun N Fun. The airplane costs were something like $1400. Or I could get a round-trip airline ticket for $200. Plus a rental car for another few hundred. It wasn't hard math, but then I was staying at a friend's house near the airport, not camping, so it made an easy decision to fly commercial. I felt the "experience" of flying in wasn't worth almost $1000, since I had done it multiple times already.

Now, we don't fly these planes we do because it's cheaper, but man, $1000 is $1000.
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I do it mostly for the freedom. It’s worth $1000 for me to leave when I want, not have to get a body cavity search, and have fun getting there. Flying our plane is an adventure, flying commercial is torture.
 
Has anyone ever calculated the cost per pound of fish they’ve caught in their boat?

Some things are about the enjoyment - not the economics. Personally, I’m just thankful to be blessed with the means to indulge in this enjoyable pastime.

Not intended to be judgmental or critical….
 
On the way back at 11,500 and LOP, with the slight tailwind, we were getting 17.5 SM/gal - almost better than my truck (and slightly better speed at 201mph).

The 'unexpected' expense for us this year was food - buying two extra meals each time for my boys got 'spensive! For four of us it was roughly $60/meal. We did do instant oatmeal and grits for breakfast and rarely bought drinks with the meals, but it still stung a bit each time.
 
I just did this analysis, although it was airlines versus self flying to OSH. Based on the equivalent govt rate airfare, I was only able to reimburse 360 of the total 1,590 statute miles my flight from the Washington DC area to Green Bay (where my rental car was). I did it because 1) I enjoy flying my airplane 2) I hate flying on airlines, and 3) my employer doesn't discourage GA flying.

A better comparison is the $1.81 per statute mile aircraft POV reimbursement rate versus $0.625 per statute mile automobile POV reimbursement rate.
 
CJones said:
On the way back at 11,500 and LOP, with the slight tailwind, we were getting 17.5 SM/gal - almost better than my truck (and slightly better speed at 201mph).

The 'unexpected' expense for us this year was food - buying two extra meals each time for my boys got 'spensive! For four of us it was roughly $60/meal. We did do instant oatmeal and grits for breakfast and rarely bought drinks with the meals, but it still stung a bit each time.
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Instant grits?
 
CJones said:
On the way back at 11,500 and LOP, with the slight tailwind, we were getting 17.5 SM/gal - almost better than my truck (and slightly better speed at 201mph).

The 'unexpected' expense for us this year was food - buying two extra meals each time for my boys got 'spensive! For four of us it was roughly $60/meal. We did do instant oatmeal and grits for breakfast and rarely bought drinks with the meals, but it still stung a bit each time.
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Food prices inside the show were a bit of a shocker for us last year as well, so we brought a bunch of food and water with us and went back to camp for sandwiches. We also carried a cooler with water & snacks into the show. We tried the church tent at the bus park this year; that was a good option. We still haven't made it up to friar tucks.... next year.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Has anyone ever calculated the cost per pound of fish they’ve caught in their boat?

Some things are about the enjoyment - not the economics. Personally, I’m just thankful to be blessed with the means to indulge in this enjoyable pastime.

Not intended to be judgmental or critical….
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I made this mistake shrimping one season.
Gas, food, beer, bait, permits, etc averaged out to ~$100/lb for shrimp :D
Not doing that math again.

For comparison though I just flew commercial out to El Paso to pickup my Debonair, 900 for 2 tickets.
Cost to get back was less in the Deb, so it depends on how far you're going and how close to a major hub on whether it's cheaper to fly commercial or not.
 
Justin Brady said:
Cost to get back was less in the Deb, so it depends on how far you're going and how close to a major hub on whether it's cheaper to fly commercial or not.
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Did you just use the direct cost or did you include the pro-rated cost of Annual, maintenance, hangar lease, etc,?

We pilots are good at rationalizing our pastime…:)
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Did you just use the direct cost or did you include the pro-rated cost of Annual, maintenance, hangar lease, etc,?

We pilots are good at rationalizing our pastime…:)
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I never used sunk costs when determining cost of *a* trip. I've already paid for that stuff anyway. It's direct costs only. Whether it's car/bike/plane/whatever.

Now costs for the year, yeah, everything gets added up.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Did you just use the direct cost or did you include the pro-rated cost of Annual, maintenance, hangar lease, etc,?

We pilots are good at rationalizing our pastime…:)
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Fuel cost plus the dry rate I charge myself for eventual overhaul and basic maint.

The way I see it I already have the airplane so factoring in the normal cost of ownership doesn't really matter because whether I fly it or not I still own it.
If I fly commercial I'm still paying for my annual, my hangar, my insurance etc.

But yes it's all about rationalizing :D
Very few people own a plane to save money.
 
Van Johnston said:
Where did I say was trying to justify the cost of flying over driving? I was always going to fly in, for all the intangible reasons mentioned. I never did a cost comparison ahead of time. That's why I subtitled the thread "a little surprising;" the actual numbers did not back up my assumption. I was surprised it was even close.
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I think I agree with @Jayboard. It is interesting that your actual OSH expenses came out very close to expenses as if you were running your own business and claiming them. But this trip was not in any way business and using the gov't base depreciation might work for one person but totally not for another. The tesla case (above) was interesting :) Here is a example workup if the my daughter, wife and myself flew the 182 vs driving the 4runner to OSH and stayed on then field:

Example Trip: 900sm each way, 3 people and 3 days at destination.
- Both options are camping
- Flyer gets free on-field camping, vehicle needs to pay camping fee
- Both options using same same food at destination
- No rental car needed during stay since destination is the airfield
- Vehicle people use two more vacation days!!!

Airplane:
- 900sm x 0.84cents/sm ==> $756
- 1 food stop for 3 people ==> $50
- Total One Way ==> $806 each way
- Total Round Trip ==> ($806 x 2) ==> $1612

Vehicle:
- 900sm x 0.37cents/sm => $330
- 3 food stops => $150 (for 3 people)
- 1 Hotel with breakfast => $175
- Total One Way ==> $655
- Vehicle Campsite ==> $40/day
- Total Round Trip ==> ($655 x 2) + (3 X $40) + (2 x Extra Vacation Days per person) ==> $1430 + ?????

I am sure I probably missed something along the way (see basis below). I used a vehicle type that is very dependable with rather low depreciation and enough room for all camping stuff. It is lower MPG so if you drive something that gets better mileage the gap will widen a bit. The most obvious difference is the extra day required each way going by vehicle and therefore a hotel room, more meals and the need for two extra vacation days. What isn't included is if the flyers suffer a wx delay they also incur vacation loss, possible rental car and hotel as well. Or they cut their stay short due to wx and have less of vacation.

Basis For Each:

Airplane (1972 182P Owned):
- We fly ~100hrs/year
- Average 13gal/hr (includes climb out), 3hr leg x 150mph ==> 450miles. Fuel = $5.50/gal.
- Fuel = $72/hr
- TBO = 1,500hrs, rebuild = 50,000 ==> $34/hr
- Insurance = $1100/yr ==> $11/hr
- Hangar = $1200/yr ==> $12/hr
- Annuals = $2400yr (avg over 5 years) ==> $24/hr
- Non Annual Repairs 1000yr (avg over 5 years) ==> $10/hr
- Hull appreciation (182's increased nicely!) $30,000 over 5yrs ==> -$60hr will use -$40/hr
- Hourly cost: 72 + 34 + 11 + 12 + 24 + 10 - 40 ==> $125/hr
- Price Per Mile: 84 cents

Vehicle (2018 4Runner Owned)
- About 18,000 miles per year
- 18mpg highway for long trips.
- Fuel = $4.00/gal
- Oil Changes, Tire Rotation, Preventative Mx per year $600/yr
- Insurance $800/yr (part of a multi-car and home policy)
- Depreciation ($28K ==> $36K in 2 years!!!) but lets use $28K to $17K over 10 years or $1100/yr
- Total Yearly Cost: $4000 fuel + 600 mx + 800 ins + 1100 dep ==> $6500
- Per Mile Price: 37 cents (rounded up)
 
For me it was $300 filling up the aircraft and about that for camping for the week (and my EAA membership). I spent about $200 during the week. An $800 week and a half long vacation is nothing to complain about, especially one as joyful this year.
 
Here we go.
 
aggie06 said:
No self respecting southerner…
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42e72496-7413-45d1-a2d6-9504637201c1_text.gif
 
In post #8 of Mr. Taco's Introduction thread, he says:

"My patience level for personal attacks, religion, politics, and just general “being a jerk” is quite low."

Yet, first day in, he's asking, in post 28 on this thread: "Are political “jokes” ok here?"

Off to get a cold, refreshing beverage.
 
The cat gets a lot of folks riled up.....seen it on the Beechtalk board. ;)
Rgbeard said:
In post #8 of Mr. Taco's Introduction thread, he says:

"My patience level for personal attacks, religion, politics, and just general “being a jerk” is quite low."

Yet, first day in, he's asking, in post 28 on this thread: "Are political “jokes” ok here?"

Off to get a cold, refreshing beverage.
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TonyWilliams said:
My statement was rhetorical… and a bit of a test. I’m confident that such statements are not permitted, nor should they be. On another forum that I was recently on, they just aren’t that particular about political jokes, provided they are maligning the correct “bad” group. Everybody on that group knows who the “bad groups” are.

Anyhoo, I’m glad that we cleared up the political joke issue, and hopefully everybody else is also aware of it.

Thanks again.
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Wow. You've got me puzzled.

You tried to deliberately violate a code of conduct just to see if it was tolerated?

I guess that's how it's done in your part of Sabre Springs?
 
Did I miss something?

I saw an intro post from a "Mr Taco" or something like that. Seemed typical. Then a post from him about whether electric airplanes will happen.

Then I noticed those two posts are gone.

And it looks like he posted here and those are gone.

What'd I miss?
 
donjohnston said:
Did I miss something?

I saw an intro post from a "Mr Taco" or something like that. Seemed typical. Then a post from him about whether electric airplanes will happen.

Then I noticed those two posts are gone.

And it looks like he posted here and those are gone.

What'd I miss?
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Tony Williams got booted from beechtalk and joined here. I actually thought he would last longer, but thankfully I was wrong. He was the only person I had on an ignore list on any forum ever. On beechtalk he would post in every thread, stick his foot in his mouth, and then argue for pages about it. An expert in every field.
 
donjohnston said:
What'd he do here to get booted so quick?
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That I don't know. Id guess he was being an ass in his electric airplane thread as that is his sacred cow.
 
even the thread is gone...

that is some serious consequences
 
I suppose I need to tone down my snarkiness, lest I get booted.

That being said, I did in fact have some expenses as a result of OSH, even though I was unable to make it. I had to divert to MSN due to weather around Chicago. I got a reroute over BANKY intersection near Green Bay. I'd say it added about 30 minutes to the flight, so about $80.
9EBE97EC-39A1-4E71-8A17-C35CEB36E4FA.jpeg
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Has anyone ever calculated the cost per pound of fish they’ve caught in their boat?

Some things are about the enjoyment - not the economics. Personally, I’m just thankful to be blessed with the means to indulge in this enjoyable pastime.
Click to expand...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, aviation has to be one of the few hobbies that people try to justify the cost of. I've never heard of boat owners trying to justify the expense of owning their boat.
 
CJones said:
On the way back at 11,500 and LOP, with the slight tailwind, we were getting 17.5 SM/gal - almost better than my truck (and slightly better speed at 201mph).
Click to expand...

And most certainly better than your truck if you were driving it at 201 mph. :D

The 'unexpected' expense for us this year was food - buying two extra meals each time for my boys got 'spensive! For four of us it was roughly $60/meal. We did do instant oatmeal and grits for breakfast and rarely bought drinks with the meals, but it still stung a bit each time.
Click to expand...

Jim K said:
Food prices inside the show were a bit of a shocker for us last year as well, so we brought a bunch of food and water with us and went back to camp for sandwiches. We also carried a cooler with water & snacks into the show. We tried the church tent at the bus park this year; that was a good option. We still haven't made it up to friar tucks.... next year.
Click to expand...

I figured out this year how to make the food cheaper! No, it doesn't involve discounts... It involves flying your plane to Orlando for recurrent training at Simcom a month before Oshkosh and taking your wife along so she can go to Disney and Universal to do all the things you couldn't do with your five-year-old on the last trip. When she sees the food prices at Oshkosh after just having been at Disney, she'll remark on how surprisingly low they are! :D :D :D
 
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