Multiengine rating in a Cessna 340A

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by RussR, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. RussR

    RussR Cleared for Takeoff

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    I have a client who purchased a Cessna 340A and wants to do his multiengine rating in it.

    First, please, no discussion on whether or not this is a good idea, or whether there are better ways to do it, etc. I've been through all that with him, the pros and cons, and this is how he wants to do it.

    I do have experience in 340s. However, I have never taught someone for a checkride in one. So I'm looking for some specific and general advice from those who may have done this before in such an airplane (any of the turbocharged, pressurized 300 or 400-series Cessnas or similar):

    1. Power-on stalls - 65% power or greater is the ACS standard. This seems like it would take the nose to the moon and airspeed would go well below Vmc at normal training weights (light weight). Advice?

    2. Pressurization system - today while flying we started with the pressurization in "Press" (so, normal), but switched it to "depress" when we started doing slow flight and such because at the low power settings it was intermittently unable to maintain cabin altitude so our ears were going crazy (and we were only at 6500 anyway). But on the checkride I am sure he will have to demonstrate operation of the pressurization system. Turn it off (and pop the ears) before maneuvers? Or "simulate" setting it but actually leave it off?

    3. Any general advice on training, maneuvers and checkride prep with such an airplane?
     
  2. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    1. If 65% is the minimum for the ACS, set 65% and head for the moon. I would think at 65%, Vmc wouldn’t be a player.

    2. Maybe set the cabin altitude above the altitude at which you’re doing air work.
     
  3. dtuuri

    dtuuri En-Route

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    I would accompany him to FSI (if you can go at no cost, say due to being under a contract for type training in another aircraft) and do it all in a simulator during transition training. That's what I did with a friend who bought a 421. He already had an AMEL, but it still helped with insurance.
     
  4. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I’m not that good of an instructor. No way I would teach the multi add on in a 340. He would have to hire someone else ...

    good luck. Please keep us updated. I’m curious to hear how this goes.
     
  5. ja_user

    ja_user Pattern Altitude

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    It will have no impact on how VMC is done. Read the VMC manuever requirements, you call it off at the first indication of loss of directional control, OR buffet, OR stall indication (horn). It varies based upon altitude, power set etc.

    Not that you wouldn't want to simulate directional controls issues for training, but for the checkride is it common that the stall horn comes first.
     
  6. bradg33

    bradg33 Pattern Altitude

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    Before you go too far down this road, can you find a DPE authorized (and willing) to conduct an initial multi engine checkride in a 340?

    Also, as it relates to (2) on pressurization, that's probably a conversation to have with the DPE you're going to use in advance. More of a practical question than a technical one.
     
    Doc Holliday likes this.
  7. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    That's exactly what I was going to mention. I don't see any DPEs in your FSDO that are authorized to conduct a practical test in a Cessna 340. You may have to import someone.
     
  8. Jim Carpenter

    Jim Carpenter Pre-Flight

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    Power on stalls, as with any high performance plane, be sure to start out at a slow airspeed, adding power to simulate takeoff and rotation speed, at least it keeps it from getting too vertical.
    Pressurization, I'd set it as MauleSkinner suggests, for some altitude above your maneuvering altitudes.
    Examiners, looks like there are a couple in the North Texas FSDO district.
    You might look at Jerry Temple Aviation website for info on all things twin Cessna.
     
  9. RussR

    RussR Cleared for Takeoff

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    We're planning to travel and already know of an examiner.

    But I think that DPE search tool you used is the "old" one, or at least it's not being updated anymore. The new one is at https://designee.faa.gov/#/designeeLocator, which shows some people I know to be DPEs but aren't shown in the old one. I do not know why there are two search tools with different results.

    Plus, even then, the listing on the old tool of "Aircraft" for each examiner was in accurate, as it was (I believe) from the days when DPEs had to be specifically approved for each multiengine aircraft. As of a few years ago that was changed to where they just have to have 5 hours in make and model and it no longer shows up on that listing. That really helped out availability for these kinds of unusual checkrides.
     
  10. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    I don’t have a 340 POH in front of me, but I definitely wouldn’t assume a stall indication before reaching Vmc in that airplane, and I’d also assume some fairly, shall we say, “sporty” Vmc characteristics from that airplane.
     
  11. ja_user

    ja_user Pattern Altitude

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    It is which ever come first, it doesn't matter which one comes first. Obviously you don't roll it, you "lose directional control" big difference.

    Of course it will depend on altitude as well. more of an issue with N/A engines..

    That being said, beat up a trainer
     
  12. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    But how does the 340 act at Vmc? Does it gradually lose directional control, or does the rudder stall? I’d bet on the latter myself.