Multi Engine Time Building

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Arrow Flyer, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. Arrow Flyer

    Arrow Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi,

    I'm trying to find a multi engine piston airplane for 30 hours time building.

    I'm a UK pilot (Commercial, Multi, Instrument) flying the 737-800 for a day job. Total time around 2800 hours. The plan (after COVID) is to fly in the US on a 61.75 validation and take the Instrument Foreign Pilot written so I can use my IR.

    The best deal I've found so far is with Plus One Flyers in San Diego, $260/hour for a Beech Duchess with built in insurance. California to Florida and back via Texas looks like a good trip.

    I don't want to miss any other opportunities, and this forum is the best place to ask! I'll go anywhere within ~1 hour of an international airport accessible from London. I've flown Seneca/DA42/Twin Comanche in the past. An autopilot and GTN650 would be nice to have.

    Thanks for your advice..
     
  2. Initial Fix

    Initial Fix Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Is that $260 an hour wet?

    there is a group in Saint Louis www.flytwins.com that is using a 310 at $250 an hour dry. Their site used to more openly promote a time building option. It might be worth giving them a ring.
     
  3. RussR

    RussR Pattern Altitude

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    Plus One Flyers is a club, though, isn't it? Like with initiation fees and monthly dues and such.

    That said, $260/hr is pretty much around the lowest you'll find, assuming it's a wet rate.

    But I really want to know more - why does a 737 pilot need to build 30 hours in a light twin?
     
  4. Arrow Flyer

    Arrow Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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    Yes, that's wet.

    You're right but even with the initiation fee and a month's dues, it's a good deal.

    Away from the 737 I'm a Flight Instructor/Flight Examiner wanting to progress into multi engine instruction. To do that, I need 30 hours PIC on an MEL. I didn't build any multi engine time because in Europe there's no requirement to do that before getting a multi pilot type rating.
     
  5. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  6. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I was confused why you needed 30 hours in a light twin when you were already flying 737s. But it is the PIC thing that is the issue. Seems like they would make an exception in this case but I guess “rules is rules”.
     
  7. Arrow Flyer

    Arrow Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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    Sorry, should have made that clearer. "The rules" say the same class or type so none of the turbine multi engine time counts.
     
  8. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Rules are had to understand. Allow me a very odd question. Do you need to get a MEL rating as well? Or just time building?

    Do you have what you need go get a CFI in the US, or are you working on that as well?

    "I didn't build any multi engine time because in Europe there's no requirement to do that before getting a multi pilot type rating."

    You got a multi pilot rating without any multi engine time?
     
  9. Arrow Flyer

    Arrow Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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    I've got an MEL and multi engine instrument, so only need the time building.

    I could convert my FI to a CFI, but have no need for that right now.

    We get a multi engine piston rating then a multi engine instrument, but it's all done "under tuition". So none of that time is countable towards the 30 hours either.
     
  10. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Cleared for Takeoff

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    http://angelaviation.com/aircraft/time-building/

    Piper Seneca II or III (they have both) for $285/hour wet incl. instructor.
     
  11. Arrow Flyer

    Arrow Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks all for the suggestions so far :)
     
  12. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Are you looking for a crash course to get all the hours done in one or two weeks? I’m assuming you don’t need a CFI to be with you as you already have the multi rating.

    If you’re getting it done in one shot you might pick a place and a time of year for consistent good weather. Avoid Wisconsin in the winter LOL

    When talking to a rental place you could probably negotiate a discount as you’re buying a packet of 30 hours.
     
  13. Arrow Flyer

    Arrow Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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    Definitely a crash course, planning to fly it all in a week with a few days buffer. I don't need a CFI with me, but that seems like a requirement in some places.

    Thanks for the weather advice. I've been drenched by more than one thunderstorm in Florida!
     
  14. kkoran

    kkoran Cleared for Takeoff

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    What is the 30-hour requirement for?
     
  15. Arrow Flyer

    Arrow Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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    In Europe, in order to be a multi engine instructor, you need to have 30 hours PIC on the applicable class or type. I've got multi time on piston (but not PIC), and turbine (not "class or type"), but neither is allowable for this purpose.

    Why's there's a difference between piston and turbine multi engine I don't know, nor why 30 is the magic number, but the rules are the rules. The more I read about the FAA system the more I like it..
     
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  16. WillFly4Food

    WillFly4Food Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sshh- don’t let the FAA hear that!
     
  17. TrueCourse

    TrueCourse Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You could always dump a bunch of cash into buying a cheap twin, fly it to build time, then sell it. But that’s risky from a financial standpoint (not being able to resell easy or unplanned maintenance) and safety standpoint (if it’s that cheap, why?). Can work with more in-demand planes (like a C172) but probably not as easy with a twin. However, if successfully done it might be way cheaper per hour when your all done. You’d have to crunch the numbers. Maybe lease one for a month. I understand insurance and liability concerns abound, but just offering something to think about.
     
  18. Marshall Alexander

    Marshall Alexander Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yeah....my daughter currently flies a Phenom 300 and 100. But, she doesn't have the "high performance" endorsement for SEL or MEL.
     
  19. RussR

    RussR Pattern Altitude

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    That seems like a whole lot of effort and risk to just fly the 30 hours he or she needs. Renting, that can be done for less than $10k, which is essentially the maximum downside risk. Even buying the cheapest twin you can find you are going to have unrecoverable costs of prebuy and insurance, possibly sales tax, etc., let alone maintenance and the risk of major damage or repairs necessary. Maximum downside risk is the value of the airplane.

    Need to build a couple of hundred hours? Then sure, buying might make sense. But for 30 hours which is going to get done in a week? I just can't see that making sense.
     
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  20. Wheels

    Wheels Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Billy is a great guy, retired Navy P3 pilot. Now he is the chief pilot for the 141 associated with the local community college. He does tail wheel training and time building in his travel air on the side.
     
  21. TrueCourse

    TrueCourse Pre-takeoff checklist

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    good points and true. Wasn’t focused much on the ‘only 30 hours’ part. Go rent anything then for the $8K-$10K adventure. Don’t prepay or the plane will break down. Fly a little each day. Make it a 10-day journey/vacation.
     
  22. Arrow Flyer

    Arrow Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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    I've sent some emails out, thanks again for the advice. It's thrown up more options.

    I'm sure I'll be back asking for route advice soon. AirNav + Foreflight is working so far!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  23. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    one downside is that he is only available on weekends. doesn't afford a whole lot of flexibility, especially if the OP is trying to jam it in in a week or so.
     
  24. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

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    Could probably do 30 hours in two weekends on a couple of sightseeing cross-country round trips maybe?
     
  25. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Might be able to get a block rate if you tell them you intend on knocking out 30hours. I wouldn't be prepaying it necessarily, but you could probably get a slightly lower rate if you tell them you're wanting to log a bunch of hours in short succession.
     
  26. charheep

    charheep Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Just another option. Just outside Chicago.
    Multi-Engine Rating | Illinois Aviation Academy

    MULTI-ENGINE COURSE RATES

    Pricing

    10 hours flight instruction in Multi-engine aircraft @ $375

    $3,750

    10 hours of ground instruction @ $85

    $850

    Final Exam fees

    $1,000

    Related books and materials

    $330

    Estimated Total

    $5,930
     
  27. Matt Goodrich

    Matt Goodrich Filing Flight Plan

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    Vector Air at Erie Municipal (KEIK) (30 minutes from Denver International) has a BE-76 for $225/hr wet.
     
  28. Fracpilot

    Fracpilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    @ Arrow Flyer,

    PM sent
     
  29. Arrow Flyer

    Arrow Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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  30. 6t6

    6t6 Pre-Flight

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    That's probably the best deal you'll find. How much time in a twin Comanche?

    What is your time frame for this?
     
  31. Arrow Flyer

    Arrow Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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    Yeah $225 is good and the airplane has good equipment. Waiting to hear what they say.

    About 3 hours on a Twin Com, I do my MEL and Instrument revalidations on one.

    By the time these COVID restrictions are lifted it will probably be August/September/October. Right now we're still barred from entering the US.
     
  32. 6t6

    6t6 Pre-Flight

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    Message sent