Most retarded DP/SID I've seen.

It takes care of both the altitude and frequency parts of the clearance. That's 40%! CRAFT
 
Lance F said:
It takes care of both the altitude and frequency parts of the clearance. That's 40%! CRAFT
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Yup, and CHATTANOOGA FIVE here is nearly as retarted, but I get it all the time.
 
I've seen several like this. What has been accomplished with these SIDs?

The iSID:

"Here's what's gonna happen. You take off, we give you a heading and an altitude. You do what we tell you."

I don't get it either Ed.
 
The Logan4 departure out of KBOS is the same... "Fly runway heading or tower assigned heading to 3000 or assigned altitude."


That's the entire thing.

And then there's the North Town 1 out of VGT or the La Guardia 1 with a Whitestone Climb that actually make you think.
 
Here's ours:

"All aircraft cleared as filed. Fly runway heading; expect radar vectors to filed/assigned route. Climb and maintain 3000 feet. Expect clearance to filed altitude/flight level ten minutes after departure."

My departure clearance is always: "Cleared to XXX via the Benton Two departure. Climb and maintain 3000 feet. Expect clearance to xxxx ten minutes after departure."

What, exactly, does this published departure procedure do for me?
 
Turning "Cleared to Destination as filed. After departure, fly runway heading, expect vectors to FIXNAME. Maintain 4000, expect X000 ten minutes after departure. Departure control frequency xxx.xxx. Squawk xxxx" into "Cleared to destination via QUAD CITY ONE to FIXNAME, flight plan route. Squawk xxxx" saves a lot of talking, listening, writing, and fouled up readbacks. So I'll take it every time.
 
Ron Levy said:
Turning "Cleared to Destination as filed. After departure, fly runway heading, expect vectors to FIXNAME. Maintain 4000, expect X000 ten minutes after departure. Departure control frequency xxx.xxx. Squawk xxxx" into "Cleared to destination via QUAD CITY ONE to FIXNAME, flight plan route. Squawk xxxx" saves a lot of talking, listening, writing, and fouled up readbacks. So I'll take it every time.
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Yup. You don't really see the value of that until you fly out of a place like O'Hare where everybody and their brother are trying to get a clearance at the same time.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if every Class B has at least one of these - a pure radar vector departure with no definite routing. In Denver, it's the DENVER FIVE. It is a little more detailed than the Moline one since it also includes lost comm instructions.

The only real difference from the others is that apparently you can't file one of these in DUAT (at least I can't with the Denver version).
 
tonycondon said:
des moines 5 is the same way.
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And the Teterboro 5 as well. When it's really dense, you're just going to get radar vactors anyway. The Palwaukee 2 as well.

When you do utility flying into the big terminals, the plate might was well reflect reality. And what it does, is it puts the freqs and alphanumerics of all the likely places they're gonna tell you to fly to in front of -ya-face.

Not retarded. Practical.
 
Ron Levy said:
Turning "Cleared to Destination as filed. After departure, fly runway heading, expect vectors to FIXNAME. Maintain 4000, expect X000 ten minutes after departure. Departure control frequency xxx.xxx. Squawk xxxx" into "Cleared to destination via QUAD CITY ONE to FIXNAME, flight plan route. Squawk xxxx" saves a lot of talking, listening, writing, and fouled up readbacks. So I'll take it every time.
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Exactly Ron!! The O'hare one (and others) also has climb restrictions based on assigned heading that would be impossible to brief to everybody calling for a clearance.

Mitch
 
The Capitol 5 departure here even includes a "fly runway heading" at the beginning.
 
It's the Quad Cities, how busy is it going to get?
 
Everskyward said:
The Teterboro 5 may be a vector DP but the instructions for the procedure off the various runways are very important. Actually you (the collective "you") need to make sure you look at the instructions for various runways on all vector DPs. If you are expecting simple vectors you may be unhappily surprised.

http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0712/00890TETERBORO_C.PDF
http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0712/00890TETERBORO.PDF
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I suppose that did need to be said.....the FASTEST way to make a New Yawk Controller NOT your friend is to NOT comply with altitude restrictions......
 
EdFred said:
It's the Quad Cities, how busy is it going to get?
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I spent my first two years of my flying 'career' at MLI - did my PPL training and early post-PPL flying out of MLI. I have never heard the Quad City departure used there. Maybe they have a DP on file so they can use it if they have a trainee in the tower/app so they get used to using it. MLI is a big training area for soon-to-be Chicago controllers.

So basically, yes, it is useless.
 
Ron Levy said:
Turning "Cleared to Destination as filed. After departure, fly runway heading, expect vectors to FIXNAME. Maintain 4000, expect X000 ten minutes after departure. Departure control frequency xxx.xxx. Squawk xxxx" into "Cleared to destination via QUAD CITY ONE to FIXNAME, flight plan route. Squawk xxxx" saves a lot of talking, listening, writing, and fouled up readbacks. So I'll take it every time.
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I know it's supposed to truncate things, but it doesn't always. In BOS we still get the same thing every day: "Cleared to the Augusta airport via the Logan Four departure, direct Pease, direct Kenebunk, direct. Climb and maintain 3k, expect 9k ten minutes after departure, squawk XXXX."

The only truncation you get is that they don't give you the departure freq (it's always 18.0 as published on the airport diagram) and you only have to read back your callsign, gate, squawk, and that you'll "call him for the push." Almost everyone still gets at least their first fix or three and the initial/expected altitudes, even with the Logan Four in the clearance.
 
I see lots of DPs like this. I think it is a results of someone saying that they developed a DP for the airport and listing it as an accomplishment on their yearly review.
 
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