Mooney Formation flight from Catalina

StinkBug

StinkBug

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
1,440
Location
San Diego
Display Name
Display name:
Dallas
Yesterday after our fly in get together at KAVX a couple of us decided to depart together and fly formation back to San Diego. Had a bunch of fun and managed to get a bit of video too. Unfortunately one of the cameras fogged up to the point of being useless, but I managed to get the right side pretty well.

Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O59W8qvcE5Y&feature=youtu.be
 
Nice, thanks for sharing.

I always use, unless I expect to encounter rain enroute, the open back to eliminate any issues with fogging.
 
I was planning to try that, but lately I have been doing a fair amount of flying through clouds, which of course would soak the camera. On clear days I'm gonna start putting the open back on though.
 
steingar said:
It does in the short bodies, or at least is supposed to.
Click to expand...

May have at one time, but is fixed on the 201. Some people wanting those last few extra knots of speed remove the step.
 
Formation flying is a lot of fun. Learning to fly in formation will also make you a better pilot.

steingar said:
Isn't that step supposed to retract?
Click to expand...
It depends on the year. Mine is a 68 and doesn't but I believe the years previously did.
 
Bill Jennings said:
May have at one time, but is fixed on the 201. Some people wanting those last few extra knots of speed remove the step.
Click to expand...
I have a 1982 M20J and definitely did not retract, although it was never replaced after the previous owner landed gear up and broke it off. I believe all J models have a fixed step, the C through F models through 1968 had retractable steps (vacuum activated after 1965). All steps became fixed in or after 1968, not sure why -- probably cost-cutting.
 
Last edited:
I bet making it retractable probably didn't add enough speed to be worth the expense. Still amazing that a certificated airplane could go 200 mph on an IO360.
 
frcabot said:
I have a 1982 M20J and definitely did not retract, although it was never replaced after the previous owner landed gear up and broke it off.
Click to expand...
The "Lean Machine" M20Js did not come with a step.

Flying-1990s-01006.jpg
 
Last edited:
Nice video, but man! my pulse rate went up just watching you close in on the lead. I guess i'm not ready to try formation yet! (And I wouldn't without training, of course!)

John
 
The first Mooney I looked at had the hand crank. I liked it. Much more simple and robust than the vacuum system. The fixed step is pretty darn reliable though :p
 
Thanks for sharing that - a real kick in the butt! :yes:
 
The Mooney step-

The original Mooney M20 and all Mooneys from 1955 to 1964 had manual retractable landing gear (except the M20D with fixed gear) and a manually retractable boarding step that retracted by means of a crank located by the pilot's left leg and a cable and pulley system. In 1965 Moooney offered electric gear as an option on all new Mooneys and the emergency gear extension system went to the location of the manual step crank. For this reason they made the retractable step automatic and vacuum operated. It was made by Brittain, the same people that made the "PC" wing leveler system that also debuted in 1965 and all Mooneys from 1965 to 1968 had the vacuum retractable step regardless of electric gear, or manual Johnson Bar gear.

Mid way through the 1968 model year, the decision was made (under new Mitsubishi ownership) that the manual Johnson Bar retractable gear system be eliminated and the vacuum retractable step replaced with a fixed step. All Mooneys produced after this time either had the fixed step, or no step at all. It is relatively simple and easy to to remove the vacuum retractable step, or the fixed step and many owners have opted to do this over the years. So Mooneys may, or may not have a step and may, or may not have a retractable step.

If Mooneys could be operated as experiementals, I have always wanted to develop an electrically operated retractable step to replace the vacuum system. It would be pretty easy to do, but the whole STC process makes it not worth it. I also don't want to put the time and effort into it on hopes of a field approval.

I personally love my retractable step.
 
What if the step doesnt come down on landing? :eek:

What will the retractable step do to insurance costs? :D;)
 
StinkBug said:
Depends on when it was made. Mine doesn't retract and never did.
Click to expand...

if you do a gear up landing, you may get it to retract. :lol: my C model is pulled up with a vacuum. btw, cool video. it's interesting to see how little aileron input is required to steer the plane.
 
Dav8or said:
The Mooney step-

The original Mooney M20 and all Mooneys from 1955 to 1964 had manual retractable landing gear (except the M20D with fixed gear) and a manually retractable boarding step that retracted by means of a crank located by the pilot's left leg and a cable and pulley system. In 1965 Moooney offered electric gear as an option on all new Mooneys and the emergency gear extension system went to the location of the manual step crank. For this reason they made the retractable step automatic and vacuum operated. It was made by Brittain, the same people that made the "PC" wing leveler system that also debuted in 1965 and all Mooneys from 1965 to 1968 had the vacuum retractable step regardless of electric gear, or manual Johnson Bar gear.

Mid way through the 1968 model year, the decision was made (under new Mitsubishi ownership) that the manual Johnson Bar retractable gear system be eliminated and the vacuum retractable step replaced with a fixed step. All Mooneys produced after this time either had the fixed step, or no step at all. It is relatively simple and easy to to remove the vacuum retractable step, or the fixed step and many owners have opted to do this over the years. So Mooneys may, or may not have a step and may, or may not have a retractable step.

If Mooneys could be operated as experiementals, I have always wanted to develop an electrically operated retractable step to replace the vacuum system. It would be pretty easy to do, but the whole STC process makes it not worth it. I also don't want to put the time and effort into it on hopes of a field approval.

I personally love my retractable step.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea how much weight the vacuum step adds? anyway, I'd like an electric step, too.
 
rbridges said:
if you do a gear up landing, you may get it to retract. :lol: my C model is pulled up with a vacuum.
Click to expand...

Think of it as an airplane version of "curb feelers" or a backup gear warning horn. :)
 
Dav8or said:
......all Mooneys from 1965 to 1968 had the vacuum retractable step regardless of electric gear, or manual Johnson Bar gear.

Mid way through the 1968 model year, the decision was made (under new Mitsubishi ownership) that the manual Johnson Bar retractable gear system be eliminated and the vacuum retractable step replaced with a fixed step. All Mooneys produced after this time either had the fixed step, or no step at all. It is relatively simple and easy to to remove the vacuum retractable step, or the fixed step and many owners have opted to do this over the years. So Mooneys may, or may not have a step and may, or may not have a retractable step.
Click to expand...


That timeline seems a little off, or possibly simplified. My plane has manual gear and a fixed step. It's a 68
 
StinkBug said:
That timeline seems a little off, or possibly simplified. My plane has manual gear and a fixed step. It's a 68
Click to expand...
Same here. I've never thought about removing it as I'm not sure the speed gain would be noticeable.
 
StinkBug said:
That timeline seems a little off, or possibly simplified. My plane has manual gear and a fixed step. It's a 68
Click to expand...

The 1968 model year is a little mixed up. It was one of the bankrupt times for Mooney and they got new ownership that year, so changes were made during that time, but exactly when and where is blurry. Then as now, our planes were pretty much hand made and I suspect decisions during the change over were made on the floor and on the fly.

It's also very possible that your plane used to have a retracting step and a previous owner elected to convert to fixed. Should be in the logs I'm guessing, but there is no STC required and no 337 either IIRC. The fixed step is included in the amended type certificate, or something like that.
 
rbridges said:
Do you have any idea how much weight the vacuum step adds? anyway, I'd like an electric step, too.
Click to expand...

Not much. I'm guessing here, but the difference between fixed step and the vacuum step is likely no more than 2-3 pounds.
 
LevelWing said:
Same here. I've never thought about removing it as I'm not sure the speed gain would be noticeable.
Click to expand...

It is said that removing the step gains you 1-2 kts. The fixed step isn't that draggy, unlike the retractable step. If the retractable step comes down in flight, you'll notice it. I'm told it will cause the plane to slightly yaw. There are also short and long versions of the fixed step with the short being a little less drag.
 
Dav8or said:
It is said that removing the step gains you 1-2 kts. The fixed step isn't that draggy, unlike the retractable step. If the retractable step comes down in flight, you'll notice it. I'm told it will cause the plane to slightly yaw. There are also short and long versions of the fixed step with the short being a little less drag.
Click to expand...
For 1-2kts I'm not sure it's worth it to take off the step. It's helpful for passengers to get onto the plane without stepping on the flap as well. Some may want that extra 1-2kts, however.
 
LevelWing said:
For 1-2kts I'm not sure it's worth it to take off the step. It's helpful for passengers to get onto the plane without stepping on the flap as well. Some may want that extra 1-2kts, however.
Click to expand...

You can just keep a small step ladder with the aircraft and use it to plane and deplane pax. Mrs. Steingar mentioned that when I nearly ruled out a Mooney that had a step-ectomy.
 
LevelWing said:
For 1-2kts I'm not sure it's worth it to take off the step. It's helpful for passengers to get onto the plane without stepping on the flap as well. Some may want that extra 1-2kts, however.
Click to expand...

Depends on the person. Some people spend thousands on flap gap seals and other speed mode that are only worth a knot at best b
 
rbridges said:
Depends on the person. Some people spend thousands on flap gap seals and other speed mode that are only worth a knot at best b
Click to expand...

Very true. The Mooney speed addiction is a disease. I almost bought a '69 M20E before my present plane and it had a fixed step on it. I remembering contemplating removing it and being torn between desires and practicality. I remember wishing it were retractable. In the end I did not buy that plane because it failed the pre buy inspection, but I suspect that had I bought it, I would have left the step on. I think they are pretty useful. The retractable steps are pretty cool. :yes:
 
Dav8or said:
Very true. The Mooney speed addiction is a disease. I almost bought a '69 M20E before my present plane and it had a fixed step on it. I remembering contemplating removing it and being torn between desires and practicality. I remember wishing it were retractable. In the end I did not buy that plane because it failed the pre buy inspection, but I suspect that had I bought it, I would have left the step on. I think they are pretty useful. The retractable steps are pretty cool. :yes:
Click to expand...
I think if I were to have the plane painted it would probably give me a bigger increase in speed than removing the step. I definitely enjoy the speed of the Mooney. The problem is now I want a faster one. :yes::D
 
LevelWing said:
I think if I were to have the plane painted it would probably give me a bigger increase in speed than removing the step. I definitely enjoy the speed of the Mooney. The problem is now I want a faster one. :yes::D
Click to expand...

I could have a new Acclaim and still want faster. :lol:
 
frcabot said:
If you get an M20TN and decide you don't want your new Acclaim, I'll gladly take it off your hands. :)
Click to expand...

Ummm... the M20TN and the Acclaim are the same plane. M20TN is the official model designation and Acclaim is the marketing/sales name.
 
Dav8or said:
Ummm... the M20TN and the Acclaim are the same plane. M20TN is the official model designation and Acclaim is the marketing/sales name.
Click to expand...
I know. I'm saying if you get one and it's too slow, give it to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top