Mooney Company sold

Mooney SOLD to Soaring America Corporation,
A California-based concern!r
 
Chinese steel is notoriously weak, avoided by homebuilders.

Will a Mooney fuselage cage made with Chinese steel have the same renowned strength as the Texas airframes?
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Chinese steel is notoriously weak, avoided by homebuilders.

Will a Mooney fuselage cage made with Chinese steel have the same renowned strength as the Texas airframes?
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In order to maintain their PC (production certificate) for China production by the FAA, the sources of all of the metals will need to be validated, and the metal itself will also need to have a quality process to ensure that the steel will be of the appropriate spec and properties. So in theory, regardless of whether the steel is made in China or the US, that still will need to meet specs. A China-built aircraft for Chinese consumption will need to meet the requirements of the Chinese equivalent of the FAA, which may not care so much.

Obviously a company determined to build junk could figure out a way to cheat, but the first time a wing falls off in the US and it is discovered that the metal was sub-par as root cause would result in the grounding of the entire China-produced fleet. It just doesn't seem like a particularly intelligent risk to take.

Now that said, put me in the camp of people who would rather have a 50-year old US-built plane vs. a brand new China-built plane, even if the two were physically identical and cost the same price.
 
I cannot wait to see activity on the ramp at Mooney's KERV facility!
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
Way to go Mooney! Way to go U.S.A. Aviation.
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Umm... a quick Google search of Soaring America Corporation from California, tells you it is a Chinese front company. They just don't want you to think that Mega Golden Aviation, LTD of Shanghai (or whoever they are) is buying the place.
 
Dav8or said:
Umm... a quick Google search of Soaring America Corporation from California, tells you it is a Chinese front company. They just don't want you to think that Mega Golden Aviation, LTD of Shanghai (or whoever they are) is buying the place.
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Yeap, it's Chinese. It will take some time and more details to figure out what this actually means for Mooney. A lot of speculation right now but not much more. As a Mooney owner I am cautiously optimistic. Mooney was still operational and making spare parts (surviving) for nearly 9000 Mooney's still flying, but surviving is different than thriving and not a workable long-term plan. If my understanding of the current plan is correct, Mooney will restart the production line in Texas in January 2014, with additional lines opening up in China and Spain. I would think that means planes built for the North American market will still be built in Texas, but the devil is in the details and I would not be surprised if lots of parts/assemblies are built in China to reduce cost. Still, that is not necessarily a bad thing and we'll just have to wait and see. At a minimum, this gives Mooney and influx of cash and an opportunity to get back into the GA market and I think that is better than being just a spare parts manufacturer for an aging fleet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I hope the Chinese realize that $700,000 - $800,000 Acclaims aren't going to cut it regardless of who owns Mooney.
 
teejayevans said:
Cool, I'll buy one there and fly it back.:D
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That won't likely be possible unless you operate with a Chinese pilot's license and medical and handle maintenance through a Chinese licensed mechanic. Since they will maintain production in TX and Spain (which makes almost no sense:dunno:) there will be no need for them to seek FAA/JAA certification for the Chinese production line.
 
Buy it in China, pull the wings off, crate it and ship it by sea?
 
hindsight2020 said:
Buy it in China, pull the wings off, crate it and ship it by sea?
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Doesn't matter, see above, in order to operate it here, you would have to operate it with a Chinese tail number under Chinese authority same as you operate an N tail plane in Europe under US authority. If you won't to import the plane, you have to go through a complete compliance/conformance inspection.
 
Henning said:
Doesn't matter, see above, in order to operate it here, you would have to operate it with a Chinese tail number under Chinese authority same as you operate an N tail plane in Europe under US authority. If you won't to import the plane, you have to go through a complete compliance/conformance inspection.
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I'm admittedly uninformed about the specifics of importing aircraft for the purposes of operating domestically (i.e. getting normal AW certs and assigning N numbers) but what exactly is involved in getting these imported aircraft "US legal"?

Furthermore, what would prevent a foreign built aircraft from getting an American AW certificate specifically?
 
hindsight2020 said:
I'm admittedly uninformed about the specifics of importing aircraft for the purposes of operating domestically (i.e. getting normal AW certs and assigning N numbers) but what exactly is involved in getting these imported aircraft "US legal"?

Furthermore, what would prevent a foreign built aircraft from getting an American AW certificate specifically?
Click to expand...

Failing to meet an FAA approved Type Certificate. To import a foreign registered plane and put an N- number on it authorizing its use in the US by a US airman and being maintained by US airmen it has to pass a conformance inspection by a DAR (Designated Airworthiness Representative) to a US Type Certificate. If it cannot meet such requirements, then it must be operated under the auspices of where it is registered or go into an Experimental R&D or Exhibition category where it will have operational restrictions imposed on it.
 
The path for this should be clear since the process has been repeated 100's of times recently:

Buy U.S. company that produces aircraft
Keep production in the U.S. while analyzing the process', materials, plans, etc.
Work through political/licensing issues quietly, greasing a lot of palms
Lower prices well below cost to build up huge deposits and demand
Announce that in order to sell a new acclaim at $299K they must move the factory to China
Count on cheap American pilots to keep their order, because they're cheap
Deliver Chinese Mooney to cheap and smug American pilot
Five years later when the landing gear fails...same pilots threaten to sue.
Chinese company laughs.
Pilots wish they had bought American, too bad there are no more airplane factories left to buy from.
American pilots ***** on Internet boards
Chinese count money and look for other business' to buy
 
Just go to wall mart ,everything else they sell comes from China, maybe you can put a mooney on lay away.
 
Alexb2000 said:
The path for this should be clear since the process has been repeated 100's of times recently:

Buy U.S. company that produces aircraft
Keep production in the U.S. while analyzing the process', materials, plans, etc.
Work through political/licensing issues quietly, greasing a lot of palms
Lower prices well below cost to build up huge deposits and demand
Announce that in order to sell a new acclaim at $299K they must move the factory to China
Count on cheap American pilots to keep their order, because they're cheap
Deliver Chinese Mooney to cheap and smug American pilot
Five years later when the landing gear fails...same pilots threaten to sue.
Chinese company laughs.
Pilots wish they had bought American, too bad there are no more airplane factories left to buy from.
American pilots ***** on Internet boards
Chinese count money and look for other business' to buy
Click to expand...

Someone who understands Chinese business practices.........:wink2:
 
hindsight2020 said:
Buy it in China, pull the wings off, crate it and ship it by sea?
Click to expand...
Since Mooney's have a one-piece spar from wingtip to wingtip, could be difficult to "pull the wings off". More like de-mate the fuselage from the one-piece wing. Major surgery.

Or maybe the Chinese company will re-engineer the Mooney wing with quick disconnects.....
 
I just read the part 23 re-write thread. Never mind. This should bring old birds a new breath of fresh air. Once I can turn the Arrow into Primary Non-commercial it's game over, I'm keeping it 4 life. It's experimental at that point.

Good luck with the Chinese!
 
hindsight2020 said:
I just read the part 23 re-write thread. Never mind. This should bring old birds a new breath of fresh air. Once I can turn the Arrow into Primary Non-commercial it's game over, I'm keeping it 4 life. It's experimental at that point.

Good luck with the Chinese!
Click to expand...

It's not 'Experimental' it's Primary Non Commercial, from the read it's even better as you can bring it back in conformity with an IA signature.
 
DavidWhite said:
Never mind I found it. I'm very excite!
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Yeah, you'll be able to stick an IO-470 in your Mooney which is the engine it should have come with, or even better stick the 230hp Diesel in it. You'll be able to make it to Europe with a stop in Reykjavik, you'll love Reykjavik.;)
 
In his aviation humor session today at AOPA Summit 2013, Rod Machado said that at the rate things are going, we won't rent airplanes anymore, they'll just be offered as takeout.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, you'll be able to stick an IO-470 in your Mooney which is the engine it should have come with, or even better stick the 230hp Diesel in it. You'll be able to make it to Europe with a stop in Reykjavik, you'll love Reykjavik.;)
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Mooney is going bye bye - parents are sick of it and we have a buyer. Next stop will probably be a Cessna 170 or similar. Considering an RV though - might make sense to wait since the experimental prices are gonna come down soon.
 
I think the Chinese Airbui made in Europe are legally interchangeable with those made in Alabama which are interchangeable with those made in China.

I'm pretty sure the Chinese are going to start building Caravans under license in China, I'm 100% sure that these Caravans will be FAA certified, but few if any will find their way to North America. Cessna will still make Caravans for North America and Europe here.

Is there a real example of a U.S. based airframe having American production moved to China and then trying to sell those airplanes here?
 
JimNtexas said:
Is there a real example of a U.S. based airframe having American production moved to China and then trying to sell those airplanes here?
Click to expand...

Well not quite "moved" but Skycatcher is being produced in both Mexico and China isn't it?
 
JimNtexas said:
I think the Chinese Airbui made in Europe are legally interchangeable with those made in Alabama which are interchangeable with those made in China.

I'm pretty sure the Chinese are going to start building Caravans under license in China, I'm 100% sure that these Caravans will be FAA certified, but few if any will find their way to North America. Cessna will still make Caravans for North America and Europe here.

Is there a real example of a U.S. based airframe having American production moved to China and then trying to sell those airplanes here?
Click to expand...

You can read in various TCDS that there is sometimes mentioned various serial numbers which can't be issued US airworthiness certificates because these models were either manufactured for military use or export.

PA28 TCDS

NOTE 20 The following model and serial number aircraft ar
e not eligible for import certification to the U.S.:
PA-28-140:
28-24660, 28-24701, 28-7225490, 28-7225491, 28-7225492, 28-7225493, 28-7225494, 28-7225495,
28-7225496, 28-7225497, 28-7225498, 28-7225499, 28-7325238, 28-7325371, 28-7325372, 28-7325373,
28-7325374, 28-7325375, 28-7325376, 28-7325377, 28-7325378, 28-7325379, 28-7325508, 28-7325516,
28-7325525, 28-7325526, 28-7325555, 28-7325556, 28-7325557, 28-7325558, 28-7325580, 28-7325581,
28-7325599, 28-7325600, 28-7425217, 28-7425222, 28-7425224, 28-7425271, 28-7425272, 28-7425273,
28-7425274, 28-7425275, 28-7425276, 28-7425277, 28-7425278, 28-7425279, 28-7425304, 28-7425305,
28-7425306, 28-7425307, 28-7425344, 28-7425383, 28-7425384, 28-7525142, 28-7525144, 28-7525177,
28-7525180, 28-7525181, 28-7525182, 28-7525197, 28-7525201, 28-7525215, 28-7525216, 28-7525217,
28-7525218, 28-7525230, 28-7525238, 28-7525243, 28-7525244, 28-7525246, 28-7525247, 28-7625060,
28-7625061, 28-7625130, 28-7625144, 28-7625272, 28-7625273, 28-7625274, 28-7625275, 28-7725053,
and
28-7725188.
PA-28-161:
28-7816330, 28-7916235, 28-8016266, 28-8116157, 28-8116158, 28-8316031, 28-8316032, 28-8616006,
28-8616007, 2816006, 2816020, 2816021, and 2816022.
PA-28-180:
28-5047, 28-5178, 28-5262, 28-5397, 28-5435, 28-7305315, 28-7305316, 28-7305499, 28-7405136,
28-7405137, 28-7405138, 28-7405139, 28-7405158, 28-7405160, 28-7405161, 28-7405167, 28-7405184,
28-7405185, 28-7405186, 28-7405187, 28-7405223, 28-7505138, 28-7505148, 28-7505159, 28-7505168,
Click to expand...
 
RotorAndWing said:
You can read in various TCDS that there is sometimes mentioned various serial numbers which can't be issued US airworthiness certificates because these models were either manufactured for military use or export.
Click to expand...

Wow. One more thing to check before buying a used plane! Well, at least an overseas one.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Wow. One more thing to check before buying a used plane! Well, at least an overseas one.
Click to expand...

Or a domestic one as well. There have been cases where someone slipped a foreign one back in the country and altered the serial number to get an airworthiness certificate, or downright swapped data plates.

Do your homework.
 
denverpilot said:
Well not quite "moved" but Skycatcher is being produced in both Mexico and China isn't it?
Click to expand...

China, yes. Never heard about Mexican production. And perhaps you mean "was". I don't know what the current Skycatcher delivery rate is, but as of 2012 it had slowed to a trickle.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Or a domestic one as well. There have been cases where someone slipped a foreign one back in the country and altered the serial number to get an airworthiness certificate, or downright swapped data plates.

Do your homework.
Click to expand...

If someone swapped data tags, how would you know?
 
RotorAndWing said:
Oh, there are ways. :wink2:

There's a few folks spending some quality time as guest of the federal government that were caught swapping data plates. They didn't think they would get caught either. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase that, how does the average airplane buyer 'do his homework' in order to identify a swapped data tag?
 
Henning said:
Let me rephrase that, how does the average airplane buyer 'do his homework' in order to identify a swapped data tag?
Click to expand...

History research, looking through logbooks for clues, looking at the aircraft and seeing if the logs match the airframe (repairs, STC's, etc).

Most folks that try the data plate swap game usually don't cover all their tracks.
 
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