Modern Hotel Design

[Art VanDelay]

Okay, so here's my rant for today - I'm in the Downtown Denver Sheraton Hotel right now and last night with an OAT of 38F - I'm having to run my air conditioning just to make the room seem livable !!! And no - as per usual the windows do NOT open.

Last March in the Munich Hilton - same story 45F outside but got run the AC in the room because the window won't open.

Now I ask you how does that make any financial sense ? How is that even remotely environmentally responsible/friendly ? Like we give a crap about that but it does seem to be the latest corporate mantra.

 

[bnt83]

Okay, so here's my rant for today - I'm in the Downtown Denver Sheraton Hotel right now and last night with an OAT of 38F - I'm having to run my air conditioning just to make the room seem livable !!! And no - as per usual the windows do NOT open.

Last March in the Munich Hilton - same story 45F outside but got run the AC in the room because the window won't open.

Now I ask you how does that make any financial sense ? How is that even remotely environmentally responsible/friendly ? Like we give a crap about that but it does seem to be the latest corporate mantra.

Big refrigerator in the room?


I can't imagine very many commercial properties are well insulated and built with efficiency in mind. Instead build it as cheap as possible and make the tenant pay the utilities. poorly insulated building doesn't explain the need to run the a/c in the winter tho.

 

[schmookeeg]

I think OP is complaining that the rooms are kept stupid hot in winter. I notice this all the time too, and find the temperature transition shocking and wasteful.

I think a sensible hotel would keep the rooms at 68 or 70, and offer a sauna for the impatient.

 

[DJTorrente]

How do I put this delicately... think about what a great number of people use a hotel room for.

In other words, I don't think that the default temperature of the hotel room is unrelated to the circumstances by GM's Hughes Electronics division (DirecTV), came to be the brightest spot on the GM balance sheet, mostly on the back of pay-per-view movie sales to hotel chains from no-star to five-star.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Okay, so here's my rant for today - I'm in the Downtown Denver Sheraton Hotel right now and last night with an OAT of 38F - I'm having to run my air conditioning just to make the room seem livable !!! And no - as per usual the windows do NOT open.

Last March in the Munich Hilton - same story 45F outside but got run the AC in the room because the window won't open.

Now I ask you how does that make any financial sense ? How is that even remotely environmentally responsible/friendly ? Like we give a crap about that but it does seem to be the latest corporate mantra.

I like it that way. Let me run the AC all the time, and I sleep much better. Doesn't matter how cold it is outside, if I'm a hotel, AC is going on.

 

[murphey]

So, you're in Denver and didn't let any of us know? We could have arranged dinner, lunch, some mountain flying, anything!

bah humbug.

 

[denverpilot]

So, you're in Denver and didn't let any of us know? We could have arranged dinner, lunch, some mountain flying, anything!

bah humbug.

Good point. I would like to meet our resident sarcastic airline guy (oh wait, we have a few of those) and buy him a beer.

 

[N801BH]

]How do I put this delicately... think about what a great number of people use a hotel room for.[/B]

In other words, I don't think that the default temperature of the hotel room is unrelated to the circumstances by GM's Hughes Electronics division (DirecTV), came to be the brightest spot on the GM balance sheet, mostly on the back of pay-per-view movie sales to hotel chains from no-star to five-star.

Personally I prefer a cool room for those "activities".........

 

[Anthony]

Most commcercial, and corporate buildings require cooling all year round due to the number of people, and equipment. Sometimes it is just a matter of bringing in more outside air, so depending on the ambient temp, it may be free cooling. Many commercial buildings today are LEED certified, especially the newer ones. In an effort to save money, many are being retrofitted as well. It is in everyone's best interest to reduce energy consumption as a percentange of operating, and occupancy expenses, as it is always passed through even if it is a landlord owned building as tenants compare operating expenses as well as lease rates in the marketplace.


http://www.usgbc.org/LEED/

 

[Shepherd]

Consider this:
Heat and air conditioning are very cheap compared to what it costs if someone decides to do a Greg Louganis out an open window on the 10th floor.

 

[N801BH]

Consider this:
Heat and air conditioning are very cheap compared to what it costs if someone decides to do a Greg Louganis out an open window on the 10th floor.

( Clean up on the pool patio deck / aisle 7 ).....

A high powered hose, a gallon or two of clorox and a scrub brush will fix the stain.......

 

[geneseib]

Okay, so here's my rant for today - I'm in the Downtown Denver Sheraton Hotel right now and last night with an OAT of 38F - I'm having to run my air conditioning just to make the room seem livable !!! And no - as per usual the windows do NOT open.

Was in a Home Depot the other day. Maybe 40 degrees outside, but it must have been 80 degrees inside. It was especially HOT up front where massive amounts of heat blew down directly on the checkout stands. We asked an employee about it and they said thermostats are controlled in Atlanta and there is nothing they can do. Amazing that there is not even a local manager with authority to correct something so stupid.

 

[Everskyward]

I think OP is complaining that the rooms are kept stupid hot in winter. I notice this all the time too, and find the temperature transition shocking and wasteful.

I think a sensible hotel would keep the rooms at 68 or 70, and offer a sauna for the impatient.

Interesting. I stay in many hotels too and I find the opposite. But in the summer I think buildings are air conditioned way too cool. I think some people's comfort range is different than others.

 

[poadeleted21]

Interesting. I stay in many hotels too and I find the opposite. But in the summer I think buildings are air conditioned way too cool. I think some people's comfort range is different than others.

Yeah, but you're female.

I joke with my wife that she would bring a sweater if we were vacationing on the sun.

For sitting still. I like it about 60F. If I'm physically active, doesn't matter how cold it is. I've gone backcountry skiing in -27F and been in a short sleeve to try to keep from sweating (-27F and sweating don't go well together)

 

[Jeff Oslick]

Was in a Home Depot the other day. Maybe 40 degrees outside, but it must have been 80 degrees inside. It was especially HOT up front where massive amounts of heat blew down directly on the checkout stands. We asked an employee about it and they said thermostats are controlled in Atlanta and there is nothing they can do. Amazing that there is not even a local manager with authority to correct something so stupid.

Did it occur to you that the employee was pulling your leg?

Pretty sure someone in the building knows how to trip a circuit breaker. It is freakin' HD, after all.

 

[wsuffa]

Most commcercial, and corporate buildings require cooling all year round due to the number of people, and equipment. Sometimes it is just a matter of bringing in more outside air, so depending on the ambient temp, it may be free cooling. Many commercial buildings today are LEED certified, especially the newer ones. In an effort to save money, many are being retrofitted as well. It is in everyone's best interest to reduce energy consumption as a percentange of operating, and occupancy expenses, as it is always passed through even if it is a landlord owned building as tenants compare operating expenses as well as lease rates in the marketplace.


http://www.usgbc.org/LEED/

Yes, that.

 

[dmspilot]

It's just the way tall buildings are. I live on the 6th floor of an apartment building and rarely need to put the heat on...and we have totally isolated independent HVACs. The heat from other apartments keeps it warm.

That said, I hate buildings with windows that don't open. Sick building syndrome.

 

[Jay Honeck]

As you might imagine, Mary and I tour a lot of hotels, looking for ideas. Some we steal, but most modern ideas are laughably, stupidly bad.

BTW: Hotel rooms should always be cool and dark when you check-in. Hot is verboten.

Funny story: We recently toured one "modern, new" hotel. It's a relative "high-rise" (12 stories), and they were incredibly proud of the "light, airy feel" of their rooms, and their polished concrete (I kid you not) floors.

The rooms didn't have drapes or shades, and the windows were floor to ceiling! Sure, you're on the 12th floor, so no one is looking -- but what happens if you want to sleep past sunrise? D'oh!

I swear, designers of these places have never actually spent a night in a hotel.

Another example: How many times have you stayed in a hotel, and had to dislocate your wrist in order to reach the toilet roll? It's pretty obvious when no one cares enough about the room design to ever actually TEST anything.

 

[paflyer]

Was in a Home Depot the other day. Maybe 40 degrees outside, but it must have been 80 degrees inside. It was especially HOT up front where massive amounts of heat blew down directly on the checkout stands. We asked an employee about it and they said thermostats are controlled in Atlanta and there is nothing they can do. Amazing that there is not even a local manager with authority to correct something so stupid.

Just wait until YOUR thermostat is controlled in Washington, DC.

 

[timwinters]

Did it occur to you that the employee was pulling your leg?

Pretty sure someone in the building knows how to trip a circuit breaker. It is freakin' HD, after all.

Many big corporations control all their stores' lighting and HVAC from the main office and local employees found tampering with the system will be reprimanded. Saves them lots of money...but yes, as in the case of the home depot mentioned, sometimes setting can be off or bogus (were the local employees smart enough to check the t-stat to make sure it wasn't blocked/covered up?)

O'Reilly controls all their stores from the "mother ship" as I used to call it. This remote monitoring system is also great for diagnostics and repair. If a compressor goes down, the mother ship is immediately notified and a local technician dispatched before the local employees probably even notice. All currents are measured, loads can be shed during peak periods, etc.

Stores were set on 72 degrees in the summer. Have you seen the size of the average guy behind the counter at an auto parts store? They make pilots look slim. They can't handle 72 degrees.

I can't tell you how many stores I'd walk into and see a candle burning on a shelf immediately below the t-stat that controlled the AC serving the front counter area.

 

[timwinters]

Okay, so here's my rant for today - I'm in the Downtown Denver Sheraton Hotel right now and last night with an OAT of 38F - I'm having to run my air conditioning just to make the room seem livable !!! And no - as per usual the windows do NOT open.

Last March in the Munich Hilton - same story 45F outside but got run the AC in the room because the window won't open.

Now I ask you how does that make any financial sense ? How is that even remotely environmentally responsible/friendly ? Like we give a crap about that but it does seem to be the latest corporate mantra.

As someone else mentioned, the liability of opening windows in high-rise buildings is an issue. But, more importantly, and as was also mentioned, it is more energy efficient for the windows not to open. There would be more issues with open window and heaters running than vice versa. Also, many HVAC units have economizers for winter operation. They don't run the AC unit...they simply pump cold outside air into the room needing cooling.

Lastly there are strict fresh air requirements in commercial buildings so even if the windows don't open, the building has fresh air pumped into it constantly. I used to cuss these when I built O'Reilly stores. The doors open dozens of times an hour and yet we had to design 10% fresh air introduction through the HVAC systems. This requirement makes sense in an office or hotel but definitely not in a small retail operation or restaurant.

The last thing I'd do before leaving the job, after my final inspection, was disconnect the motorized fresh air dampers in the HVAC systems.

 

[Slipkid65]

This is one of my major pet peeves, although, even though it's a waste, I don't care if the AC is capable of actually making the room cooler in the winter.

The biggest issue is that with many of the hotels with the "2 pipe" system installed, once you hit a random day, you have 2 choices of temperature, hot or hotter, and the windows sealed shut.

I carry a digital thermometer on the road to record this for the hotel committee reports. I absolutely can't sleep if it's above 75 or so.

Typical overnight in many places:

You walk in the room and instantly start sweating, gangbar the "AC" to full cold, and it's blowing 110 degree air. Windows don't open, and when you call the front desk, you get the "it's wintertime, sir!" response. Spend a quality 8 hours of "sleep opportunity", sweating and cursing Mr. Marriott, Hilton, Doubletree, Red Lion etc. Makes one bright eyed and bushy tailed for the next day of work.

Another favorite are the rooms with the motion detector AC systems, that turn the AC off when it doesn't detect motion for a preset time. I don't move much in my sleep, so in these places, I'll get the room comfortable, fall asleep, and then wake up in a pool of sweat a few hours later. As soon as I get up, the AC kicks on and starts cooling off the room.

Fortunately, there are ways to defeat a lot of the idiotic restrictions placed on the AC systems. I've become a defacto HVAC programmer in order to get a decent night's sleep.

If FAR 117 was actually about getting adequate rest, this would've been addressed.

 

[Art VanDelay]

Good point. I would like to meet our resident sarcastic airline guy (oh wait, we have a few of those) and buy him a beer.

Ok then, I'll be sure to let you know in advance next time and meet you in The Yard House in the lobby of the hotel.

 

[Art VanDelay]

As someone else mentioned, the liability of opening windows in high-rise buildings is an issue. But, more importantly, and as was also mentioned, it is more energy efficient for the windows not to open. There would be more issues with open window and heaters running than vice versa. Also, many HVAC units have economizers for winter operation. They don't run the AC unit...they simply pump cold outside air into the room needing cooling.

Lastly there are strict fresh air requirements in commercial buildings so even if the windows don't open, the building has fresh air pumped into it constantly. I used to cuss these when I built O'Reilly stores. The doors open dozens of times an hour and yet we had to design 10% fresh air introduction through the HVAC systems. This requirement makes sense in an office or hotel but definitely not in a small retail operation or restaurant.

The last thing I'd do before leaving the job, after my final inspection, was disconnect the motorized fresh air dampers in the HVAC systems.

One of the smarter Hilton's we used to stay at in Mainz Germany would automatically shut off the room heating/cooling whenever the windows were opened. I liked that place a lot.

My issue is not so much about temperature but more about stuffy-ness. I just would like some moving FRESH air without running a stupid air conditioner. I sit inside a pressurized tube moving thru the air at over 600 MPH for many hours at a time. It would be nice not to have some artificial thing heaving air on me and just enjoy a little peace and quiet. Even if I could just open the window 4 inches it would be better than having to run the system. Cheaper for the hotel too.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Our hotel in Iowa had the uber-efficent (but guest unfriendly) 2 pipe system. It was either heat, or cooling, and it took about 12 hours to switch.

On those days in spring where the buildings would heat soak all day, and cool down at night, I was like the Wizard, turning valves, throwing levers, and trying to stay ahead of demand. People would want cooling in the afternoon, and heat by midnight.

It was a nightmare.

Our island hotel has the uber-inefficient individual room units. I hate them with a passion (we are getting about 33 months out of them, in the salt air, and they cost a fortune to operate) but guests love the ability to switch from heating to cooling on a dime.

Thanks to windstorm regulations, our hurricane-approved windows don't open. Some of the small bathroom windows can be opened, which gives you a nice cross-breeze with the door open.

 

[Ghery]

As you might imagine, Mary and I tour a lot of hotels, looking for ideas. Some we steal, but most modern ideas are laughably, stupidly bad.

BTW: Hotel rooms should always be cool and dark when you check-in. Hot is verboten.

Funny story: We recently toured one "modern, new" hotel. It's a relative "high-rise" (12 stories), and they were incredibly proud of the "light, airy feel" of their rooms, and their polished concrete (I kid you not) floors.

The rooms didn't have drapes or shades, and the windows were floor to ceiling! Sure, you're on the 12th floor, so no one is looking -- but what happens if you want to sleep past sunrise? D'oh!

I swear, designers of these places have never actually spent a night in a hotel.

Another example: How many times have you stayed in a hotel, and had to dislocate your wrist in order to reach the toilet roll? It's pretty obvious when no one cares enough about the room design to ever actually TEST anything.

And then there are the rooms (typically not in the US) were you have to put your room key in a slot to enable power and HVAC. Needless to say, the room gets uncomfortable when you aren't there. And, don't get me started on the stupid places I've seen the toilet paper roll placed. More than once I've used the spare that was more obviously placed on a shelf than the one on the holder that you were supposed to use because I didn't see it until I had been there a day or two.

 

[DJTorrente]

And, don't get me started on the stupid places I've seen the toilet paper roll placed.

If you'll permit a little thread-drift this phenomenon is also found in rental housing. Renos (bathrooms in particular) are lowest-cost possible, and done by a contractor who hasn't given the slightest thought that they or any other human might have to use the space for its intended purpose; who is working for a landlord who likewise hasn't given the foggiest thought to the possibility that they might ever be sitting on that throne. Home stores sell floor-stand models for when they REALLY drop the ball on where to put the TP roll holder.

 

[LoneAspen]

These stories remind me of a business trip I took in the late 90's to Aguadilla, Puerto Rico in the summertime.

We all stayed in separate little villa style buildings made out of cinderblocks. It got HOT during the Puerto Rico summer, and the little A/C units in there could barely keep up.

We'd keep the A/C cranked all the way down, but after our first day there, we noticed the maids would turn off the A/C when they made up the rooms, meaning it was like a furnace when we got back in the evening. We asked the hotel if they'd please keep the A/C on, but they basically refused saying it was for power saving reasons. Screw that!

On the second day, we headed back to the hotel before taking lunch and noticed the rooms had been cleaned and the A/C was off, so we turned it back on, cranked it all the way down, and shut the drapes. We did that every day we were there for two weeks.

Screw the power savings - Coming back to what seemed like a 100 degree room in the evening was unbearable. I'd pay more if needed, just keep the damn A/C on.

 

[wsuffa]

And then there are the rooms (typically not in the US) were you have to put your room key in a slot to enable power and HVAC. Needless to say, the room gets uncomfortable when you aren't there.

Not a problem... I figure that's a very good reason to carry a hotel loyalty card....

And, don't get me started on the stupid places I've seen the toilet paper roll placed. More than once I've used the spare that was more obviously placed on a shelf than the one on the holder that you were supposed to use because I didn't see it until I had been there a day or two.

I've been in a couple of places where there was no roll, just a little dispenser of half-sized Kleenex (tm) type sheets....

 

[LoneAspen]

And, don't get me started on the stupid places I've seen the toilet paper roll placed. More than once I've used the spare that was more obviously placed on a shelf than the one on the holder that you were supposed to use because I didn't see it until I had been there a day or two.

I've been in a couple of places where there was no roll, just a little dispenser of half-sized Kleenex (tm) type sheets....

I stayed in one hotel that just had three seashells in the bathroom...

 

[Ghery]

Not a problem... I figure that's a very good reason to carry a hotel loyalty card....

Or get a second key card for the room.