Military Options

ScottM said:
Have you talked to the USCG yet? They need both fixed wing and fling wing pilots. The training is the same as the Navy's. You even attend P-cola with the squids. The really nice part is that you get to fly real world missions, once you graduate, all the time and people rarely shoot at you.
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And did you know the CG has its own academy? In fact it's one of the 4 US service academies. Take a look might be interesting for you.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
I was going to offer a solution that everyone else has overlooked but upon reading your opinion of the current President I don't think you worthy of a military position. So I will not offer the solution to you.
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I tend to agree. The military is not a democracy. You don't get a vote on whether or not to obey a lawful order. As a civilian, if you don't like your boss, you can vote with your feet and quit. Not so easy to do in the military.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
If you don't respect the man, respect the position. He IS commander in chief of the armed forces.
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I was active duty before, during, and after President Clinton. While he was in office, I bit my tongue and kept my opinions to myself. He was my commander in chief regardless of what I thought about him personally.
 
This thread has put the cart so far ahead of the horse it's not even funny. I'm sure Evileagle and 35AoA know exactly what I'm talking about.

..Between the idyosyncracies of rushing a fighter unit, or any Guard unit for that matter, and the realities and attitude adjustment required to successfully complete (and not merely crawl by the skin o your teeth to the finish line) UPT/IFF/RTU/MQT, I'd say our esteemed aspirants have the red 'LO SA' light pegged ON and STEADY.

Stand by for remediation. Hint: This isn't Burger King kiddos. The competition is fierce for these positions. Being SNAPs ain't gonna help you get there. We haven't even established a basic aptitude for tactical flying for Christ sake. And we're talking about preference of POTUS in the conduct of one's service?!?! LOL Like I said, "SNAP flight K-I-O, 4's tumbleweed, 3s chase RTB" :D
 
35 AOA hit it on the head. The last thing on your mind as a military pilot is who's in office. They have very little to do with your day to day activities. You serve the people, not POTUS. If you have strong political beliefs I'd suggest not joining the military. I did 20 yrs under Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama and could care less who was President at any given time. They didn't affect my life, Congress and my senior leadership made all the real decisions. You could say Bush sent me to war, oh well that's what I got paid for. When I got back from war then I got paid to train for the next war. Two important things about being a military pilot. First, you get paid and have plenty of benefits. Second, all your training and flight time is free. Everything else is just extraneous BS that I had to do in order to fly. Trust me, there are far bigger dilemmas to worry about as a pilot than who's in office.
 
What about the Army's rotary wing program? Apaches and Blackhawks I'll bet are just as much fun to fly as any fighter.
 
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Back in the 70s I started in AFROTC, finished in Army ROTC and then worked for the Navy as acivilian. While working for the Navy I did jobs for the Coast Guard and the Marines. The happiest folks I saw where the Coasties on Kodiak. Anybody E-5 or above was ex-Navy. Same job without the BS. They thought the Coast Gguard was fantastic. Now, this information is over 30 years old, but it's a thought.
 
bigred177 said:
This is what I figured too but a few things made me thing maybe not. It looks like it was originally an internal call for either prior military or someone already in the guard but then they amended the document to open it up to every one. It is also for a job flying C-130s so it makes me wonder if maybe there aren't as many applicants as for the fighters.
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That would be most extraordinary. Odds are they already know who's getting the slot, but just have to go through the motions. But, there's always a chance, and if you want it, apply for it. Just realize that your odds improve by getting into a colleg-based commissioning program now before you graduate rather than waiting.

Also, since you're still a junior in college, you may not qualify for an Air Force Reserve commission yet, and they can't hold the slot until you do. ANG used to commission people after only two years of college, but I don't know whether that's still possible. You might even consider trying to get into the 2-year ROTC program (if those still exist), doing a 6-week summer camp this summer (substitutes for the first two years of ROTC), and doing a year in grad school after your senior year while you get the last year of ROTC. Your odds of bagging a pilot slot are a lot better out of ROTC than off the street.

If I can just drop in and talk to those guys I'll be glad to do it; I just don't want to drive down there and have them tell me to FO without an appointment.
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They won't say that to you, but you may find the folks with whom you need to speak are either not there that day (reserve units don't work normal M-F 8-5 hours) or out flying. Do keep trying to call before showing up.
 
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I think flying a helo would be fun. I've always wanted to ride in one. Plus, it seems there's some possible civilian career opportunities that come after flying helos.
 
And then there's the retired Marine major tank driver with whom I worked for about 10 years whose three helo rides all ended either crashing or being shot down. You will not ever get him in a helo again as long as he's conscious.
 
david0tey said:
Now the only moral dilemma is that I don't want to serve under this president.
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David, I'm going to talk you like I was still in a fighter squadron.

[channeling my ancient past]
WTF!!!!!! Look you clueless FNG, if you could count on your figures you might be able to figure out that by the time your are mission ready Obama won't be President!!!!

The fracking country elects the President. We work for him! Period!

If you want to be able to pick and choose your bosses, why don't you get your rear end out the main gate and find a fast food assistant manager that you like and make fries for him!!

Look, I promise you there will be times when you feel like you are working for an idiot. You duty when that happens is work twice as hard to accomplish the mission. You're supposed to be a leader. Leaders don't demotivate everyone around them bitching about the boss.

Save your political opinions for the bar!
[/channeling]

Back to my normal nerdy computer programmer self. I'm as right wing wacko as they come. But the fact is that if you join the military you must be willing to subordinate yourself to the chain of command.

I promise you there will be times when you hate individuals in the chain of command. They may in reality be idiots.

It doesn't matter. You have to be able to subordinate your own opinions for the greater good of your unit, the service and the country.

If you can't do that then you should seriously reconsider joining the military.
 
I began my flying career via the Corps. My junior year I enrolled in the Marine Platoon Leaders Class with an Aviation Guarantee. Spent two summers in Marine OCS in quantico VA and graduated with a commission. You need to immediately contact your local Marine Corps Officer Selection Office LINK and talk to an OSO about a flying career in the Corps. The three flying pipelines are Fixed Wing, Helos, or Jets. It all depends on your grades in flight school, your desire, and the needs of the Marine Corps (not necessarily in that order) as to which pipeline you fit. In the PLC, the Marine Corps paid for 25 hours of GA flight school while I was in college. I finished up on my nickel at the flying club during the Basic School in Quantico Va after I was commissioned. Once I started military flight school, I didn't think twice about GA (I was lucky enough to fly T-28s.) My hands were full, so to say. I would do it all again. The best years of my life. I highly recommend it to those who want to fly and who want to be a Leader of Marines!
 
Ron Levy said:
You will not ever get him in a helo again as long as he's conscious.
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I don't know him and still I will recommend not getting in a helo with him...the guy has very bad luck in them!
 
hindsight2020 said:
This thread has put the cart so far ahead of the horse it's not even funny. I'm sure Evileagle and 35AoA know exactly what I'm talking about.

..Between the idyosyncracies of rushing a fighter unit, or any Guard unit for that matter, and the realities and attitude adjustment required to successfully complete (and not merely crawl by the skin o your teeth to the finish line) UPT/IFF/RTU/MQT, I'd say our esteemed aspirants have the red 'LO SA' light pegged ON and STEADY.

Stand by for remediation. Hint: This isn't Burger King kiddos. The competition is fierce for these positions. Being SNAPs ain't gonna help you get there. We haven't even established a basic aptitude for tactical flying for Christ sake. And we're talking about preference of POTUS in the conduct of one's service?!?! LOL Like I said, "SNAP flight K-I-O, 4's tumbleweed, 3s chase RTB" :D
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Agreed. Your performance in flight school will determine where you go. If you work your butt off and get a commission and a flight slot, then I guarantee you will be too busy just trying to do well on every flight that you won't have much time to worry about getting fighters or anything else. And if you do have that kind of time, you are either exceptionally gifted, or you are going to have a bad time. Of the couple dozen guys and girls I started primary flight training with back when, I'd say a good 95% raised their hands when the instructor running our in-brief asked who wanted jets. 8 months later, I don't think half those people would have raised their hand. A good percentage of them just realized they didn't want to put in the work required, or that they just weren't doing very well. Another good portion of them realized that other platforms appealed to them more once they had spent some time talking to instructors from various other backgrounds. A few had airsickness issues. When it came time for pipeline selection (similar to an AF drop night or whatever), there were only about 3 of us that ended up getting orders to jets. Such is the breaks of military aviation. Some were happy with the results, some not as much. But conversely, I have yet to hear any of them not enjoy what they are doing now.......be it SH-60's, E-2's, P-3's, KC-130's, etc etc. No matter what, you still get paid to fly awesome airplanes and do cool stuff. Regardless of who the President is :)
 
JimNtexas said:
David, I'm going to talk you like I was still in a fighter squadron.

[channeling my ancient past]
WTF!!!!!! Look you clueless FNG, if you could count on your figures you might be able to figure out that by the time your are mission ready Obama won't be President!!!!

The fracking country elects the President. We work for him! Period!

If you want to be able to pick and choose your bosses, why don't you get your rear end out the main gate and find a fast food assistant manager that you like and make fries for him!!

Look, I promise you there will be times when you feel like you are working for an idiot. You duty when that happens is work twice as hard to accomplish the mission. You're supposed to be a leader. Leaders don't demotivate everyone around them bitching about the boss.

Save your political opinions for the bar!
[/channeling]

Back to my normal nerdy computer programmer self. I'm as right wing wacko as they come. But the fact is that if you join the military you must be willing to subordinate yourself to the chain of command.

I promise you there will be times when you hate individuals in the chain of command. They may in reality be idiots.

It doesn't matter. You have to be able to subordinate your own opinions for the greater good of your unit, the service and the country.

If you can't do that then you should seriously reconsider joining the military.
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It would be different if I was in the military and someone that I didn't like was elected and/or ahead of me in the chain of command. But I am not in the military, so I have every right to not join based on this president; who, by the way, in my opinion is the most unfit to lead of any president this country has ever seen.
 
david0tey said:
It would be different if I was in the military and someone that I didn't like was elected and/or ahead of me in the chain of command. But I am not in the military, so I have every right to not join based on this president; who, by the way, in my opinion is the most unfit to lead of any president this country has ever seen.
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Of course you do.

You also have the right to stand on your roof at night and shout into the sky, hoping that aliens will descend to earth and offer you a place in their flight training school. If what you are seeking is a perfect solution -- a tendency that seems rather epidemic among people of your generation -- then my suggestion is as likely to succeed as is your quest for the perfect.

In the gentlest and most supportive language I can muster given the context, I think you need to reflect on your reasons for wanting to serve. I am not confident that you have an adequate understanding of what it means to serve in the U.S. Armed Forces. Without that understanding, you cannot make an informed decision; and until you can make an informed decision, it would neither be fair to you, nor in the best interests of this nation, for you to pursue that route.

I served under Carter and Reagan, by the way.

-Rich
 
If you're upset that you would have to serve under the current president in the military if you joined, you will likely find yourself thinking the same thing in the civilian world (I have no idea if you work or not). You still have to work under people you see unfit for that position. It's super frustrating, but you have to bite your tongue and do it.

Edit: On the flip side, if you find them unfit, work harder so you can take their spot! You can't be the President without having served!
 
RJM62 said:
Of course you do.

You also have the right to stand on your roof at night and shout into the sky, hoping that aliens will descend to earth and offer you a place in their flight training school. If what you are seeking is a perfect solution -- a tendency that seems rather epidemic among people of your generation -- then my suggestion is as likely to succeed as is your quest for the perfect.

In the gentlest and most supportive language I can muster given the context, I think you need to reflect on your reasons for wanting to serve. I am not confident that you have an adequate understanding of what it means to serve in the U.S. Armed Forces. Without that understanding, you cannot make an informed decision; and until you can make an informed decision, it would neither be fair to you, nor in the best interests of this nation, for you to pursue that route.

I served under Carter and Reagan, by the way.

-Rich
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I would give up my life for my country. If I was in the military, and Obama was elected, I would carry out my orders without hesitation so long as they upheld my oath. But like I said, I am not in the military. I am deciding on whether or not I want to be. As long as I am a civilian, I can make the choice to join or the choice to stay away. If I signed up, I would be committed and carry out the orders of those appointed over me; but until then, I have a choice to make and I can look at it from whatever perspective I damn well please.
 
HerrGruyere said:
If you're upset that you would have to serve under the current president in the military if you joined, you will likely find yourself thinking the same thing in the civilian world (I have no idea if you work or not). You still have to work under people you see unfit for that position. It's super frustrating, but you have to bite your tongue and do it.

Edit: On the flip side, if you find them unfit, work harder so you can take their spot! You can't be the President without having served!
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Our current president hasn't served. In fact, our current president pronounces corpsman as "corpse man". If that doesn't scare you, nothing will.
 
RJM62 said:
In the gentlest and most supportive language I can muster given the context, I think you need to reflect on your reasons for wanting to serve. I am not confident that you have an adequate understanding of what it means to serve in the U.S. Armed Forces. Without that understanding, you cannot make an informed decision; and until you can make an informed decision, it would neither be fair to you, nor in the best interests of this nation, for you to pursue that route.
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You said that in such a nice and and inclusive way :yesnod: .
 
weilke said:
You said that in such a nice and and inclusive way :yesnod: .
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Rich has a way with words, a gift.

---

As a general comment, I would ask... no, BEG... that the commentary in this thread (and every thread which is outside the Spin Zone) remain free of political references. Them's the rules as per the Rules of Conduct.

Thanks!
 
david0tey said:
I would give up my life for my country. If I was in the military, and Obama was elected, I would carry out my orders without hesitation so long as they upheld my oath. But like I said, I am not in the military. I am deciding on whether or not I want to be. As long as I am a civilian, I can make the choice to join or the choice to stay away. If I signed up, I would be committed and carry out the orders of those appointed over me; but until then, I have a choice to make and I can look at it from whatever perspective I damn well please.
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Whoa brother.....nobody is telling you to join the military here, nor are they saying you don't have a choice. What you are getting is advice from a lot of people who have served. You asked the questions, and experienced folks are giving you honest feedback. No need to take offense. Take it or leave it......that's obviously your choice, as is making the decision about whether you want to join or not. What you need to decide is whether you interest in military aviation is worth potentially serving under a civilian leadership that you don't personally agree with. I think the vast majority of us would say that in our personal experience, flying in the military is/was absolutely worth it. Since you asked.

As an aside, and it was said previously but bears repeating.....as a junior in college right now, there is little chance that you will be flying in an operational unit prior to the next presidency. You certainly would be in flight school, but depending on the route you take, that will probably take the vast majority of the first few years after you graduate from college. It took me just a hair under 4 years to go from college graduation, to my first day as the FNG in a Hornet squadron. That doesn't include OCS time, since I did NROTC, so you would also have to factor that into your timing. Just something to think about, if this issue matters that much to you.
 
Haha yeah it's like someone is making him join the armed forces via the internet.

Just relax and think it through.
 
david0tey said:
I would give up my life for my country. If I was in the military, and Obama was elected, I would carry out my orders without hesitation so long as they upheld my oath. But like I said, I am not in the military. I am deciding on whether or not I want to be. As long as I am a civilian, I can make the choice to join or the choice to stay away. If I signed up, I would be committed and carry out the orders of those appointed over me; but until then, I have a choice to make and I can look at it from whatever perspective I damn well please.
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Firstly, no one wants you to give up your life for your country. You are useless to your country once you're dead. As George Patton is rumored to have said, "You don't win a war by dying for your country. You win a war by making the other son-of-a-***** die for his."

Secondly, no one, least of all me, is questioning your right to make whatever decision you like, based on whatever factors you like. I am merely advising you to reflect on your reasons. Specifically:

You don't want to serve under a particular president -- and you feel that way strongly enough that it affects your very willingness to serve while he is in office. Okay, fine. That is your right. But look beneath that for a moment and try to clarify the underlying reasons for your feeling so strongly.

If it's just because you dislike the man and his politics, that's problematic. This nation transcends its leadership. A military commitment ultimately is to the nation and its Constitution, not to whomever happens to be in office at any given moment. If your sheer dislike of a man is stronger than your desire to serve your country... well, it's something to think about.

On the other hand, if (for example) you are genuinely concerned that a particular President is likely to use the military in ways that are contrary to the Constitution, then your decision to delay would make more sense to me. Perhaps that is the concern that underlies your unwillingness to serve under a particular president, or perhaps not. I really don't know, obviously.

Just as obviously, it really doesn't make a bit of difference whether I understand your reasons. But it matters a great deal that you understand your reasons. Military service, especially as an officer, is a huge commitment that should not be undertaken without some soul-searching.

So again, young man, my advice is to reflect -- and it's worth every penny you paid for it.

-Rich
 
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David, don't take offense, what I tried to do was give you a little mental preparation for being in the military. Even in today's military I'm pretty sure you need have a pretty thick skin at times. In fact, that's also true in professional aviation.

Right or wrong, military life is centered on living in a chain of command, and supporting the people above you as well as those below. No matter what you think of them personally.

I didn't understand this when I first went on active duty, but after a few years I finally figured it out and become a better officer and a better person thereafter.

The Romans came up with this idea, it worked pretty well for them. So well we still use it 2500 years latter.

I strongly suggest that read Nouveau's very eloquent post and reflect on on what he says.

Nobody here is mocking you or telling you that you must or must not join the military.

I know I just want to you understand that there is a lot more to being in the military, especially as an officer, than walking out to that shiny F-22 and slipping the surly bonds of earth.

Please reflect on this. Nobody will think less of you if after reflection you choose to take another route through life.
 
The beauty of the Marine Corp Platoon Leader's Class (PLC) is you get to spend one or two summers in beautiful Quantico VA playing Marine, without having to commit. You will know whether you are a fit, and you will have had a chance to qualify for flight school (medically and mentally) before you sign on the dotted line.

I remember sitting in the Wing Commander's board room around a huge wooden table, with about 30 other flight students at NAS Whiting. He said to look to your left, then look to your right . . . those were the folks who would not make it through flight school, for one reason or another. Of course I said to myself . . . those poor bastards!:wink2:

Then there was the Marine flight student who checked into VT-6 with 2500 hours of twin engine Barron time and wanted to fly C-130s so he could do the minimum time then fly for the airlines. Well, he finished #1 in his class in an accelerated program and ended up in jets. He was pizzed, but . . . needs of the Marine Corps. He later did an interservice transfer to the coast guard and ended up flying multi-engine jets and eventually got a seat in a big airline.

Other friends of mine became frustrated jet jocks when they were selected to fly AH1-Cobras. One friend in particular was so eat up with missing out on being the next Maverick he ended up on the bottom of the Med as crab bait, because he was a risk taker . . . was a better stick than everyone else (in his own mind of course.)

There are very few people I know who go into the military because it is a life long ambition. There are a few who are keeping up the generational family tradition, but the vast majority of guys I met were in it for the adventure.

It was one of the best decisions I ever made. BTW, it took me about three FAM flights in the T-28 before I could consistently remember to raise the landing gear!:D Flying is not rocket science on the whole. Just be passionate about it and it will work out for you in the end.
 
Back when I was an E-4 in the Marine Corps I was looking at commisioning programs, ROTC, MECEP, etc. I was told at the time they were offering guaranteed flight contracts (pre 9/11 even). Wasn't sure if it was true, but my eyes wouldn't have passed the flight physical anyway. A friend from high school went into the Corps a little behind me, got selected to MECEP, and got a pilot slot. So I guess this was one of the times the military was telling the truth. We just had an intern in my office who just got his bachelors and was looking into a commission and pilot slots. Both the Navy and Air Force all told him none were available. But things can change in a few years.
 
david0tey said:
It would be different if I was in the military and someone that I didn't like was elected and/or ahead of me in the chain of command. But I am not in the military, so I have every right to not join based on this president; who, by the way, in my opinion is the most unfit to lead of any president this country has ever seen.
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You are made from better stuff, huh? Why don't you tell us about yourself so we can decide for ourselves? What are your accomplishments?

The only thing you have shown us so far is that you are too ignorant and lazy to look up for yourself what your military options are? I'm betting you are a bit of a raciest too.
 
david0tey said:
I would give up my life for my country.
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You have shown no character at all so I find this unbelievable.

david0tey said:
If I was in the military, and Obama was elected....
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He has already been elected twice. In our country the President cannot be elected to a third term. Did you finish high school government?

david0tey said:
I can look at it from whatever perspective I damn well please.
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Maybe a code red is in your future.
 
RJM62 said:
.................I am not confident that you have an adequate understanding of what it means to serve in the U.S. Armed Forces. Without that understanding, you cannot make an informed decision; and until you can make an informed decision, it would neither be fair to you, nor in the best interests of this nation, for you to pursue that route.

-Rich
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:yeahthat:
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
You have shown no character at all so I find this unbelievable.



He has already been elected twice. In our country the President cannot be elected to a third term. Did you finish high school government?



Maybe a code red is in your future.
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You don't know me. Stop acting like a big shot. When I said "if Obama was elected...", I was speaking hypothetically. My point is that I realize once I join the military, the president is my boss and I have to obey his orders and the orders of those appointed above me. According to you, this means I have no character.
 
On a lighter note, and before I lose my cool big time, thanks for all the advice. I am determined to do this not just because I want to be a pilot, but because I want to serve. I probably should get used to not bad mouthing the prez, but i'm not in the service yet;)
 
A number of thoughts. First off I joined the Air Force under Reagan, and served active reserve, active duty, and inactive reserve(not in that order) under Reagan, Both Bushes, and Clinton. No one asked me my opinion of the president, nor did anyone truly care. I joined for various reasons, some for me, some for my country. However, once I joined I was committed to the mission whether I agreed with it or not. Again no one aked my opinion nor did anyone care. I am not going to say the military is all great, but I did not realize how good I truly had it until I left the military and had to work in the real world. If I had to do it again, there is no doubt I would have done things a lot differently, but even so I got more out of the military than I could have ever hoped for. For what it's worth I was not a pilot, nor did my job involve aviation.
 
douglas393 said:
A number of thoughts. First off I joined the Air Force under Reagan, and served active reserve, active duty, and inactive reserve(not in that order) under Reagan, Both Bushes, and Clinton. No one asked me my opinion of the president, nor did anyone truly care. I joined for various reasons, some for me, some for my country. However, once I joined I was committed to the mission whether I agreed with it or not. Again no one aked my opinion nor did anyone care. I am not going to say the military is all great, but I did not realize how good I truly had it until I left the military and had to work in the real world. If I had to do it again, there is no doubt I would have done things a lot differently, but even so I got more out of the military than I could have ever hoped for. For what it's worth I was not a pilot, nor did my job involve aviation.
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Understand this 100%. Thanks for the input.
 
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