Military Options

david0tey

david0tey

Line Up and Wait
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I know that I have personally beaten this topic to death on POA and for that, I apologize. I am a junior in college right now and am still trying to decide what to do after college. In the event that I decide to try for the military route, how should I go about it? I talked to a Navy pilot recently who told me about the BDCP program in the Navy where they will pay for your last year of college if you commit early. My other options as I see them would be Navy OCS after college or Air Force OTS after college. I want to be a pilot more than anything in the world so motivation will not be an issue. What route gives me the best chance of getting a pilot slot? I would love to fly fighters but I realize beggars can't be choosers, and even getting a slot as a pilot is in no way guaranteed. What do ya think?
 
Have you talked to the USCG yet? They need both fixed wing and fling wing pilots. The training is the same as the Navy's. You even attend P-cola with the squids. The really nice part is that you get to fly real world missions, once you graduate, all the time and people rarely shoot at you.
 
ScottM said:
Have you talked to the USCG yet?
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My vote is for USCG. If I went military full time I'd try for their C130's.

My personal plan is around junior year in college (Senior in HS now) join the Air national guard but not for aviation and just do a more part-time military experience and have a regular job on top of that.

Goodluck!
 
The USCG is a good choice, in my opinion. The training's the same, you fly real missions, and the food's not bad.

Another thing about the military in general is that there's something that military people universally refer to as "chicken****," which roughly translates to "petty annoyances," which can include things like gigging you on an inspection because the end of one of your shoelaces is frayed or one of your nose hairs is too long... that kind of nonsense.

It's axiomatic, however, that chicken**** is inversely proportional to the importance of the current mission. The more important the mission, the less chicken**** there is to contend with. In the USCG, you're almost always involved in very important, real-word missions, which results in a much lower chicken**** factor than you're likely to encounter in the other branches (unless, of course, you're in active combat, which is the most effective chicken**** suppressant of all).

So I join the rest who suggested that you pay a visit to your friendly USCG recruiter.

-Rich
 
I'm retired Air Force. I actually worked with the Coast Guard Electronic Warfare Branch (who knew they had such a thing) a couple of times when I was on active duty.

It didn't occur to me at the time to look at the CG, but if I could wind the clock I certainly would, knowing what I know now.
 
HerrGruyere said:
I heard the AF Reserves are looking for pilots, but that's not a full-time gig.
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Not entirely true. If you are hired by guard/reserve you would be full time for the two years or so for pipeline then at least another year or two of full time work for "seasoning".

Reserves and Guard are always hiring. CG is a good route, never met any of those dudes who didn't like what they were doing. On the other hand, they don't have fighters so I didn't consider them. I'd recommend getting your degree then applying for OTS - apply for both Navy and AF. The only guarantee that you can get is a pilot slot (not what you are going to fly - unless you go guard/reserve), but you can get through the physicals, etc before signing anything by going the OTS route.

FWIW, I did AFROTC in college so I'd already signed my life away before I found out I was going to UPT.
 
The reserve components have very few slots for pilot training, and generally save them for folks they already know, such as someone who joined the unit out of high school to pay for college, and are now graduating. You'll need a lot of luck and persistence (and probably recommendations from folks the unit knows/respects) to get such a slot.

Even the regular components have a lot fewer pilot slots to fill today, and again, give first priority to those they know, which essentially means Academy graduates and then ROTC graduates. Off-the-street OCS/OTS flight slots are the rarest and hardest to get these days, but any program that includes early commitment while still in college will put you ahead of those other off-the-street folks. If you graduate without a deal in your pocket, you have a lot of competition for the very few slots remaining.

Finally, the USCG is the smallest of those aviation services, and thus has the fewest slots to hand out. Also, they are heavily helo, with few fixed wing slots, especially for initial entrants. If you don't want to fly helos, you might not want that route. Factor that into your considerations.
 
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First, you want to be sure you don't have any disqualifying medical conditions that would keep you from entering pilot training.
 
I too would urge you to consider the USCG. ( A disclaimer here.... I am a retired USCG aviator) But that notwithstanding, the variety and reward you get from flying USCG missions is hard to beat. I was lucky enough to work both sides of the street, both rotor and fixed wing. I started out in rotors and as I began to get more command type slots I moved into fixed wing as it offered career options that being solely rotor qualified could not. I got some great experiences, met and made life long friends and got to operate in some of the most challenging, (Antarctica and Alaska), environments and some of the most beautiful, (two tours in Hawaii and three in Florida). One word of caution, it is the most difficult gig in the military to get, and I was one lucky duck to have the opportunity to serve my country doing something I loved every, (well nearly), minute of.
 
I feel like getting coast guard aviation is a little less straight forward than the rest of the services. I apologize in advance if this is outdated info, but I seem to remember (from when I was in flight school, with various USCG students) that they 1) have to fulfill a tour on a surface ship prior to attending flight school, and 2) the vast majority of CG officers are either from their service academy or were prior enlisted. I could be wrong on all counts, but I seem to remember those things from talking to some of them.

If you want to fly fighters, join the USAF, USN or USMC. Nobody else in our armed forces has them (as I'm sure you know). I know it is a long way off, and many many many hurdles from where you are right now, but if you really want them, it would make sense to join a service where that would be an option.
 
RJM62 said:
The USCG is a good choice, in my opinion. The training's the same, you fly real missions, and the food's not bad.

Another thing about the military in general is that there's something that military people universally refer to as "chicken****," which roughly translates to "petty annoyances," which can include things like gigging you on an inspection because the end of one of your shoelaces is frayed or one of your nose hairs is too long... that kind of nonsense.

It's axiomatic, however, that chicken**** is inversely proportional to the importance of the current mission. The more important the mission, the less chicken**** there is to contend with. In the USCG, you're almost always involved in very important, real-word missions, which results in a much lower chicken**** factor than you're likely to encounter in the other branches (unless, of course, you're in active combat, which is the most effective chicken**** suppressant of all).

So I join the rest who suggested that you pay a visit to your friendly USCG recruiter.

-Rich
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This. Be a PuddlePirate and experience minimal BS.

Disclaimer... I'm a former Coastie.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 
You don't really know what you can get until you talk to the recruiters of the various services. AF, Navy, and Coast Guard.

I know a lot of AF pilots that are now flying Predators and Reapers.

I'm retired AF, flew on active duty for 15 of my 20+ yrs. I've been retired 10 yrs so programs to get in have changed.
 
35 AoA said:
I feel like getting coast guard aviation is a little less straight forward than the rest of the services. I apologize in advance if this is outdated info, but I seem to remember (from when I was in flight school, with various USCG students) that they 1) have to fulfill a tour on a surface ship prior to attending flight school, and 2) the vast majority of CG officers are either from their service academy or were prior enlisted. I could be wrong on all counts, but I seem to remember those things from talking to some of them.

If you want to fly fighters, join the USAF, USN or USMC. Nobody else in our armed forces has them (as I'm sure you know). I know it is a long way off, and many many many hurdles from where you are right now, but if you really want them, it would make sense to join a service where that would be an option.
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99% correct. The afloat or ashore tour is a requirement if there are no open slots in aviation at the time a graduating academy cadet or OCS graduate matriculates. As the number of open slots at any one time is low the chances of going direct are slim, but it does happen. It is not unheard of to wait TWO tours for a slot to open up.
 
EvilEagle said:
Not entirely true. If you are hired by guard/reserve you would be full time for the two years or so for pipeline then at least another year or two of full time work for "seasoning".

Reserves and Guard are always hiring. CG is a good route, never met any of those dudes who didn't like what they were doing. On the other hand, they don't have fighters so I didn't consider them. I'd recommend getting your degree then applying for OTS - apply for both Navy and AF. The only guarantee that you can get is a pilot slot (not what you are going to fly - unless you go guard/reserve), but you can get through the physicals, etc before signing anything by going the OTS route.

FWIW, I did AFROTC in college so I'd already signed my life away before I found out I was going to UPT.
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Please tell this to the guys in Fort Worth. I have left probably 15 messages with 8 different people and have yet to get one returned. I'm not even asking about pilot slots, just joining.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
It is not unheard of to wait TWO tours for a slot to open up.
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Sounds about right. I remember most of the coasties being LT's/O-3's when the rest of us were all ENS's and 2lt's. That would explain it, as I believe SWO JO tours are back to back and take about 3 years and some change combined, at least on the Navy side. That sounds like a long time, but I guess they are still significantly junior to guys who go back through as retreads from like NFO/WSO-dom who already did all of flight school, the FRS, a 3 year fleet tour and are back starting at the beginning again (minus API that is).
 
bigred177 said:
Please tell this to the guys in Fort Worth. I have left probably 15 messages with 8 different people and have yet to get one returned. I'm not even asking about pilot slots, just joining.
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You can't have a squadron without new blood. Even if you are full today, what will the situation be in 2 years? That's what it takes (at a minimum) to get a guy off the street back to the squadron. If they aren't returning calls maybe they are gone, just hired a crop or are just screwing the pooch - they all happen.

At least in my unit, the pilot screening/hiring process is way different than the non-flyers. Took my wife 9 months to get hired and we already lived here with me working in the unit. YMMV.
 
EvilEagle said:
You can't have a squadron without new blood. Even if you are full today, what will the situation be in 2 years? That's what it takes (at a minimum) to get a guy off the street back to the squadron. If they aren't returning calls maybe they are gone, just hired a crop or are just screwing the pooch - they all happen.

At least in my unit, the pilot screening/hiring process is way different than the non-flyers. Took my wife 9 months to get hired and we already lived here with me working in the unit. YMMV.
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These guys even have current pilot positions advertised as open to the public. I don't know what the deal is. They need to hurry though, I only have 2 more years until I'm too old to learn to fly according to them :).
 
bigred177 said:
These guys even have current pilot positions advertised as open to the public. I don't know what the deal is. They need to hurry though, I only have 2 more years until I'm too old to learn to fly according to them :).
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I don't know anyone in that unit, so I can't speak to them specifically. Have you gone by there? Guys don't get hired with us without at least two in-person visits.
 
When I was in school I had a number of friends that wanted to br military pilots. At the time the competition for the slots was fierce and only one got a flying spot, as a navigator in the USAF. When I was in the Air Force, I knew a large number of pilots and it had seemed in the 10+ years between graduating from college and joining up the competition only was fiercer, and it was said that unless you were an Academy grad with good grades, or something was truly special about you it was difficult to get a pilot spot. At the time I was told that the AF was the easiest branch to get a pilot spot as well, though this was relative as it was still quite difficult. Has anything changed?
 
bigred177 said:
These guys even have current pilot positions advertised as open to the public. I don't know what the deal is. They need to hurry though, I only have 2 more years until I'm too old to learn to fly according to them :).
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I'll bet those advertised positions are either for rated pilots coming off active duty, or are a paper exercise for slots they are already planning to give someone they know. And at least when I was in the Guard, "new blood" meant someone with less than 1000 hours of fighter time and 300 hours in type. One or maybe two pilot training slots a year was typical, and there was a long list of applicants for each one.
 
EvilEagle said:
I don't know anyone in that unit, so I can't speak to them specifically. Have you gone by there? Guys don't get hired with us without at least two in-person visits.
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How do you even arrange a visit to a guard wing? You can't get on to most bases (around here) without proper credentials or a good reason. Do you just call them up and say, "Hey, I'd like to come visit and see what's up?"
 
david0tey said:
I know that I have personally beaten this topic to death on POA and for that, I apologize. I am a junior in college right now and am still trying to decide what to do after college. In the event that I decide to try for the military route, how should I go about it? I talked to a Navy pilot recently who told me about the BDCP program in the Navy where they will pay for your last year of college if you commit early. My other options as I see them would be Navy OCS after college or Air Force OTS after college. I want to be a pilot more than anything in the world so motivation will not be an issue. What route gives me the best chance of getting a pilot slot? I would love to fly fighters but I realize beggars can't be choosers, and even getting a slot as a pilot is in no way guaranteed. What do ya think?
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I think you should be proud of your decision. :yes:

IMHO, set your site to the highest level. What ever that is.

Thank you for your service to our country.

:cheers:
 
Geico266 said:
I think you should be proud of your decision. :yes:

IMHO, set your site to the highest level. What ever that is.

Thank you for your service to our country.

:cheers:
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Now the only moral dilemma is that I don't want to serve under this president.
 
douglas393 said:
When I was in school I had a number of friends that wanted to br military pilots. At the time the competition for the slots was fierce and only one got a flying spot, as a navigator in the USAF. When I was in the Air Force, I knew a large number of pilots and it had seemed in the 10+ years between graduating from college and joining up the competition only was fiercer, and it was said that unless you were an Academy grad with good grades, or something was truly special about you it was difficult to get a pilot spot. At the time I was told that the AF was the easiest branch to get a pilot spot as well, though this was relative as it was still quite difficult. Has anything changed?
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Not really. On average the Air Force has around (normally under) 800 flight slots to give a year. Over half go to the academy every year. So roughly half of graduating class at the AFA gets a slot. The other half get spread between ROTCs and a few go to OTS. Each ROTC is lucky to get one slot per year. Ive heard of instances where among 2 or 3 ROTCs they get one slot. So the best cadet from each ROTC has to compete with the others and pray they are selected. Oh btw... I believe that if you were to get a pilot slot right now you would be signing a contract to serve for 10 years after flight school. Flight school last nearly a year. So 4 years of college + 1 year of flight school + 10 years of service = You are in your mid 30s before you can even consider getting out. Which I dont find anything wrong with that but some dont want to commit 15 years of their lives to something.
 
EvilEagle said:
I don't know anyone in that unit, so I can't speak to them specifically. Have you gone by there? Guys don't get hired with us without at least two in-person visits.
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I would go see them but I don't know where they are or how to go about visiting them. They are located in Fort Worth and I am currently in either OKC or Austin so I'd like to have something set in stone before I make the drive.

Ron Levy said:
I'll bet those advertised positions are either for rated pilots coming off active duty, or are a paper exercise for slots they are already planning to give someone they know. And at least when I was in the Guard, "new blood" meant someone with less than 1000 hours of fighter time and 300 hours in type. One or maybe two pilot training slots a year was typical, and there was a long list of applicants for each one.
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This is what I figured too but a few things made me thing maybe not. It looks like it was originally an internal call for either prior military or someone already in the guard but then they amended the document to open it up to every one. It is also for a job flying C-130s so it makes me wonder if maybe there aren't as many applicants as for the fighters.

This is all speculation though as I don't have any idea on how any of this works.

If I can just drop in and talk to those guys I'll be glad to do it; I just don't want to drive down there and have them tell me to FO without an appointment.
 
David, you really don't have a military option, as I alluded to in post 16. The academy grads (USN) get half the slots also.
davod0tey said:
Now the only moral dilemma is that I don't want to serve under this president
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And you just have to eat that. Even the command grade guys just stuff it. It's how the system is.
 
HerrGruyere said:
How do you even arrange a visit to a guard wing? You can't get on to most bases (around here) without proper credentials or a good reason. Do you just call them up and say, "Hey, I'd like to come visit and see what's up?"
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Yep, pretty much. Guys call our unit all the time, we point them to one of the boss-types. They usually end up submitting a résumé and coming for a visit. We always send our youngest LT to go pick people who are rushing the unit up from the gate.
 
david0tey said:
Now the only moral dilemma is that I don't want to serve under this president.
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Please don't join the military! You don't understand what you are getting into.

As an Officer, your oath will be similar to this "I (insert name), having been appointed a (insert rank) in the U.S. Army under the conditions indicated in this document, do accept such appointment and do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter, so help me God"

Please note that it does not say you will listen blindly to politicians.... or to the republican / democrati party.

However, your Commander in Chief is the President, voted for by the people.
 
I read all this and kinda wish I was even half qualified to fly for the military. Oh well someone has to swing wrenches at home!
 
I was going to offer a solution that everyone else has overlooked but upon reading your opinion of the current President I don't think you worthy of a military position. So I will not offer the solution to you.
 
If you don't respect the man, respect the position. He IS commander in chief of the armed forces.
 
I have served under President Bush as well as President Obama, and life has been the same with each. Of course there are some big picture budgetary issues that have arisen, but I have yet to be affected (on a professional level) by any of them.....to include what we are going through right now. I'm not saying that he/she doesn't make a difference, but you are so very far below the POTUS on the food chain as a JO that it really honestly makes no difference IMHO. You still have to be a citizen under [insert president], so I'm not sure how it is that much worse as someone serving in the armed forces, assuming you disagree with them. Maybe I'm just naive, but at the O-3 level (in more ways than one), I still do the same thing every day.....which is doing my job(s), be it on the ground or in the air. I am too busy with 1000 other things to really worry about politics. I think you will find that your CO and/or Wing Commander/CAG/etc will have a much more perceptible effect on your life, expectations and everything else. As in they control 99.9999999% and politicians might affect .000000001% of that.
 
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EvilEagle said:
Yep, pretty much. Guys call our unit all the time, we point them to one of the boss-types. They usually end up submitting a résumé and coming for a visit. We always send our youngest LT to go pick people who are rushing the unit up from the gate.
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Easy enough!

I've already been talking to a recruiter at the wing, but, maybe I can call them up and schedule a visit before June!
 
david0tey said:
Now the only moral dilemma is that I don't want to serve under this president.
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I thought you take an oath to defend the constitution, not allegiance to a king.

If you sign up for a flying gig, most of your service will be under the next president, and the one after that, and the one after that. Who knows who those people will be. It's a long term deal.
 
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