Medical Deferred Due To Abortion

K

Kimpilot177

Guest
Approximately 6 months ago I had to have an abortion; long story short the AME inquired as to “why” I was have an abortion (I.e., was it medical related). I explained the situation which was I had a one night stand, wasn’t sure exactly who the father was. The AME asked if alcohol was involved and I mistakenly said yes. The AME said he has to defer my medical application for an FAA decision, and they may require a psychologist evaluation. I was dumbfounded at this, especially because I’ve never had any arrests or medical problems before. What are options? Hire a lawyer or wait for an FAA response?

I’m a CFI and depend on having a valid medical in order to work.
 
You need to consult with a better AME, someone like Dr. Chien (who posts on here) or a similar AME well-versed in dealing with "difficult case" medicals (not that yours should be a difficult case, but it's now in that pipeline).
 
I don't see abortion on here.. or is this one of those things that get pulled into the blanket 'admission to a hospital' question
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we want safe pilots in the skies, people who won't croak when they're flying or hear voices telling them to do something crazy, and generally be 'healthy' - but the current FAA med process is a joke

If it is 18.u. that jammed you up then that's one of those generic catch all's that should go, also the 'ever in your life' portion. If you cut yourself in the kitchen and need stitches does that count as 'admission to a hospital' ?? and if so, why should that be a med issue..? let's say it happened when you were 20 and today you are 49 and applying for your med. Seems ridiculous

Do other professions have such absurd medical requirements, such as police, fire, train conductors, bus drivers?

But hey we got BasicMed (thanks AOPA!!), just need another set of ridiculous questions, a rectal exam (not a joke), and find a doctor willing to fill the form out, and you're good to go! Progress!

/s
 
If this is a true story, the AME needs to be reported to the FAA and be stripped of his designation. It seems to me even by delving into your right to choose that he far exceeded his authority. Of course, you should never have even given him any explanation as to why you had an abortion beyond it being a personal choice. That is still your right.
 
There ought to be a "sticky" thread on this board instructing to STOP providing TOO much info. As a CFI, you know this example:

DPE: Do you have a Pencil
Student: Yes (correct answer)
Student: Yes, a number 2 pencil that I bought last year with no bite marks and a perfect eraser as I never make mistakes, occasionally if I
have an itch in a "sensitive area" it makes a good scratcher, and if thrown just right, I can stick it in the ceiling (wrong answer)
 
This is very unfortunate. You certainly can be a CFI using BasicMed while your medical is in review pipeline unless your employer will not allow it.
 
Salty said:
The point is, that's irrelevant. The forms do not say "describe every time you've ever been involved with alcohol".
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She didn’t say this was the only time she’d ever been involved with alcohol, just that she’d never been arrested before.
 
MauleSkinner said:
She didn’t say this was the only time she’d ever been involved with alcohol, just that she’d never been arrested before.
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Again, that's irrelevant. She had no responsibility to disclose that information, and the doctor had no business asking anything more than "were there medical reasons or complications?".
 
Salty said:
Again, that's irrelevant. She had no responsibility to disclose that information, and the doctor had no business asking anything more than "were there medical reasons or complications?".
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As has been noted, she apparently tends to give a little too much information.
 
Salty said:
It should not have been asked for, nor written down as it was not relevant.
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I suspect that AME’s are “encouraged” to look for signs of alcohol abuse, and this situation could easily be one. Yeah, the OP said too much, but if it gets to the point where it raises questions of alcohol abuse, the AME is obligated to continue the discussion.

whether the FAA’s definition of alcohol abuse is accurate or not is another topic, IMO. But the AME rightfully deferred the decision to someone more qualified to make that determination.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I suspect that AME’s are “encouraged” to look for signs of alcohol abuse, and this situation could easily be one. Yeah, the OP said too much, but if it gets to the point where it raises questions of alcohol abuse, the AME is obligated to continue the discussion.

whether the FAA’s definition of alcohol abuse is accurate or not is another topic, IMO. But the AME rightfully deferred the decision to someone more qualified to make that determination.
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Abortions are not on the list of Faa alcohol dangers. So no, this does not even fit the "FAA definition of alcohol abuse". Even as bad as the FAA's definition is, this is far worse than that.
 
Salty said:
Abortions are not on the list of Faa alcohol dangers. So no, this does not even fit the "FAA definition of alcohol abuse". This is far worse than that.
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Contrary to the thread title, the alcohol/deferral part doesn’t appear to be to be about the abortion, but rather whether or not alcohol impaired the OP’s judgement such that a pregnancy occurred when it otherwise wouldn’t have.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The alcohol part doesn’t appear to be to be about the abortion, but rather whether or not alcohol impaired the OP’s judgement such that a pregnancy occurred when it otherwise wouldn’t have.
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That is also not on the form.

Did your AME ask you if alcohol was involved in the conception of any of your children? (assuming you have one)

If this question is appropriate, then so would mine be.
 
Salty said:
That is also not on the form.

Did your AME ask you if alcohol was involved in the conception of any of your children? (assuming you have one)

If this question is appropriate, then so would mine be.
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Lol, uh oh
 
Perhaps alcohol was involved in you NOT conceiving. Those of us without kids should be grilled on this also.
 
Salty said:
That is also not on the form.

Did your AME ask you if alcohol was involved in the conception of any of your children? (assuming you have one)

If this question is appropriate, then so would mine be.
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I didn’t tell the AME that I mistakenly parented children, so no.
 
I suspect that this will become a big story if the faa pursues this rather than just issue.
 
To the OP - was this an official Class N or just a consult? Was the magic number at the bottom of the form provided to the AME?
 
This is uniquely crazy. Let's see:
1) Ms. A gets tipsy once in her life at a birthday party when she is not flying, and an unfortunate chain of events starts, ending up in an unwanted pregnancy and a termination that, because of the presence of alcohol, is deemed cause for deferral
2) Mr. B gets tipsy regularly at every party, when he is not flying, and in many cases his occasional partners end up having pregnancy terminations. Mr. B has nothing to report, because he didn't undergo any medical procedure. His behavior is considered fine and he can keep flying and having sex as usual.
3) Ms. C goes through the same situation as Ms. A, but she is on contraceptives. There is no abortion but when she declares the contraceptives on her medical the AME asks her if she ever had random sex at parties. She says yes, once, and because at parties she may drink alcohol, the contraceptives become reason for deferral (she obviously takes them to avoid getting pregnant when she drinks).
I could go on, but basically if the point of view of this particular AME is considered valid then the Talibans may as well write the next medical regulations. Assuming the original account is a true, complete and faithful representation of the facts, of course.
 
Sifossifoco said:
This is uniquely crazy. Let's see:
1) Ms. A gets tipsy once in her life at a birthday party when she is not flying, and an unfortunate chain of events starts, ending up in an unwanted pregnancy and a termination that, because of the presence of alcohol, is deemed cause for deferral
2) Mr. B gets tipsy regularly at every party, when he is not flying, and in many cases his occasional partners end up having pregnancy terminations. Mr. B has nothing to report, because he didn't undergo any medical procedure. His behavior is considered fine and he can keep flying and having sex as usual.
3) Ms. C goes through the same situation as Ms. A, but she is on contraceptives. There is no abortion but when she declares the contraceptives on her medical the AME asks her if she ever had random sex at parties. She says yes, once, and because at parties she may drink alcohol, the contraceptives become reason for deferral (she obviously takes them to avoid getting pregnant when she drinks).
I could go on, but basically if the point of view of this particular AME is considered valid then the Talibans may as well write the next medical regulations. Assuming the original account is a true, complete and faithful representation of the facts, of course.
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Anything I would add or comment on, goes into too much politics and will get this thread closed.
 
Sifossifoco said:
This is uniquely crazy. Let's see:
1) Ms. A gets tipsy once in her life at a birthday party when she is not flying, and an unfortunate chain of events starts, ending up in an unwanted pregnancy and a termination that, because she talks too much about the above, is deemed cause for deferral.
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I suspect that if the other pilots at my previous job, both male and female, mentioned that they weren’t welcome in Canada, the same result would be likely to occur.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I suspect that if the other pilots at my previous job, both male and female, mentioned that they weren’t welcome in Canada, the same result would be likely to occur.
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Your former colleagues will get caught up with sooner or later.
 
danhagan said:
There ought to be a "sticky" thread on this board instructing to STOP providing TOO much info. As a CFI, you know this example:

DPE: Do you have a Pencil
Student: Yes (correct answer)
Student: Yes, a number 2 pencil that I bought last year with no bite marks and a perfect eraser as I never make mistakes, occasionally if I
have an itch in a "sensitive area" it makes a good scratcher, and if thrown just right, I can stick it in the ceiling (wrong answer)
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(go to 1:04....)
 
RussellJ said:
Being a private pilot since 1990 and an A&P since 1998 I have learned that fewer words are better when dealing with MEs and FSDOs. Both will bite you if you say too much.
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That is the case in a lot of situations. Law enforcement, lawyers, prospective employers, you name it. Way too easy to sink your own ship.
 
SkyDog58 said:
If this is a true story, the AME needs to be reported to the FAA and be stripped of his designation. It seems to me even by delving into your right to choose that he far exceeded his authority. Of course, you should never have even given him any explanation as to why you had an abortion beyond it being a personal choice. That is still your right.
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Or ... he was delving into the lack of good judgement caused by alcohol use. Because that's what he was doing, I'd bet a White Castle lunch on it.
 
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