MDW ground stop - tower evacuated

CharlieD3 said:
According to info I just heard, many of the ~20 year olds that have contracted COVID 19 that have had follow up cat scans have shown ~20% permanent lung damage.

From my understanding, these were NOT residents of Wuhan, with already toxic air pollution anyway. And are NOT smokers...

I have not fact checked it. Yet.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
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I saw a video, I think was from Hong Kong, where they have been autopsying the dead. The doctors said they have never seen the kind of damage to the lungs this virus causes. It has to be noted, this is NOT a flu virus, but something different altogether.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I saw a video, I think was from Hong Kong, where they have been autopsying the dead. The doctors said they have never seen the kind of damage to the lungs this virus causes. It has to be noted, this is NOT a flu virus, but something different altogether.
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[TINFOILHAT] I believe it is man made and either purposely or accidentally let loose in the wild. Maybe a shot across the bow if you will [/TINFOILHAT]
 
Bill Jennings said:
[TINFOILHAT] I believe it is man made and either purposely or accidentally let loose in the wild. Maybe a shot across the bow if you will [/TINFOILHAT]
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I don't know if I'd go that far, but this is certainly a new mutation of something. I think a lot of the naysayers miss that point, this is a virus that first started just 4 months or so ago, and has spread around the globe to nearly a quarter million people and killed 8,000 in that short time, with no current signs of slowing yet.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Welcome to America. If it doesn't directly hurt me, I don't care. **** on the rest of you.

How we still have airlines transporting people who are asymptomatic, to every point of the country is beyond me. Can't have gatherings of more than 10 people, but lets pack them into a terminal where they all sit right next to each other to board a tube to sit next to each other.
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Not so much. My wife flew to Philadelphia yesterday and her plane had less than 20 people on it. Took 7 minutes from drop off to gate. The plane that boarded before hers had 19...

While that's more than 10, it's not at all like being packed into a plane as normal...
 
midwestpa24 said:
I saw a video, I think was from Hong Kong, where they have been autopsying the dead. The doctors said they have never seen the kind of damage to the lungs this virus causes. It has to be noted, this is NOT a flu virus, but something different altogether.
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If the autopsies are from Wuhan... This is their skyline, typically.
46c56d904cf260d9d7ce24d0ba2737d4.jpg


fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
FastEddieB said:
Not independently verified, but this just crossed my Twitter feed:

49673438057_bd88d499f2.jpg


If true, I doubt "portfolio angst" is foremost among these doctors.
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6-7000 known cases in the US, from asymptomatic to severe (needing ventilator), about 160,000 ventilators nationally (62,000 + 98,000 ‘emergency’)... that info looks a wee suspect.

Fear. Fake facts (lies).


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ro...s-an-announcement-amid-covid-19-outbreak/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po.../health-system-coronavirus-preparation-129066
 
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GrummanBear said:
6-7000 known cases in the US, from asymptomatic to severe (needing ventilator), about 250,000 ventilators nationally.... that info looks a wee suspect.
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The numbers I have seen quoted everywhere is 100,000 ventilators nationwide in the US. But you have to figure that is spaced out over thousands of hospitals, so doubtful any given hospital has more than 100, so if you have an outbreak in one city that sends 1,000 people to the hospital, very easy to get overwhelmed. That is the entire point behind social isolation, our medical facilities are not prepared for an outbreak of this level.
 
Bill Jennings said:
[TINFOILHAT] I believe it is man made and either purposely or accidentally let loose in the wild. Maybe a shot across the bow if you will [/TINFOILHAT]
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There was a great (and way over my head) article in Nature in the last few days that pretty much rules this out based on study of the virus's structure, similarity to existing viruses, and other "stuff" I don't fully comprehend. I can't find the link now, though. Basically it was a natural mutation.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
For pretty much 100% of the people I know, the concern is not of their own death but rather not wanting to become the vector that ends up causing the death of someone less capable of surviving the infection than themselves. And that concern (concern is not the same as fear BTW) is very rational.
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A little off-topic, but it amazes me how much of my social circle is concerned about spreading COVID-19 but is not so concerned about spreading misinformation.

Folks, verify your source before broadcasting "facts".
 
asicer said:
A little off-topic, but it amazes me how much of my social circle is concerned about spreading COVID-19 but is not so concerned about spreading misinformation.

Folks, verify your source before broadcasting "facts".
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My stepmom actually blocked me on Facebook over me pointing out false things she shares a few days ago.
 
NoHeat said:
Midway operating uncontrolled would be a lot of fun. Just imagine the cacophony that would happen, with the usual swarms of identical Southwest 737s coming and going, if one of them asked for any traffic in the area please advise.
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"Midway traffic, Orange Boeing 5 miles from the initial, inbound, full stop, Midway"
 
asicer said:
A little off-topic, but it amazes me how much of my social circle is concerned about spreading COVID-19 but is not so concerned about spreading misinformation.

Folks, verify your source before broadcasting "facts".
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Did I say something that was not factual?
 
MIFlyer said:
"Midway traffic, Orange Boeing 5 miles from the initial, inbound, full stop, Midway"
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Unfortunately far too many IFR pilots forget their roots and make their not-so-informative traffic calls exactly like this. Joe Bleux flying his 152 in the pattern has absolutely no idea where is "the initial" and even if he does, should not be expected to give way to some jet jockey who is too lazy/stupid/arrogant to properly scan for traffic and enter the pattern in turn.
 
timwinters said:
Hmmmm...where does @Radar Contact work?
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Chicago TRACON in Elgin, IL. It is about an hour driving time northwest of Midway.

NoHeat said:
For real fun, I think they should cancel IFR ten miles out, and fend for themselves in the pattern. ;)
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I know that's joke, but for those who don't know; under Part 121, our ability to cancel, or depart VFR, is severely limited for transport jets.
 
smv said:
Unfortunately far too many IFR pilots forget their roots and make their not-so-informative traffic calls exactly like this. Joe Bleux flying his 152 in the pattern has absolutely no idea where is "the initial" and even if he does, should not be expected to give way to some jet jockey who is too lazy/stupid/arrogant to properly scan for traffic and enter the pattern in turn.
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I think jets have to fly a much wider pattern than 152s due to their speed, so asking them to join the pattern with much slower aircraft doesn't seem practical or safe to me.
 
Palmpilot said:
I think jets have to fly a much wider pattern than 152s due to their speed, so asking them to join the pattern with much slower aircraft doesn't seem practical or safe to me.
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Yet somehow having them barrelling straight in without regard to existing traffic and making "position" calls that no Private pilot should be expected to understand is somehow safer?

Yes, jets have a wider (and usually higher) 'pattern', but that does not preclude them from following proper procedures at uncontrolled fields and working with the existing traffic to make an entry safe for everyone involved. I have been passed in the pattern by jet traffic that was flying higher, faster, and further out than I was but it was coordinated through excellent communication and proper position reports.

All that being said, even though I may have mentioned "jet jockeys" in my original comment, the comment was directed more toward those IFR pilots (as indicated by the "too many IFR pilots" part) of all aircraft who seem to forget that most of the pilots they encounter in the pattern at an uncontrolled field have no way of knowing what they mean by "the initial" and being on an instrument approach in VMC at an uncontrolled field does not give them priority for landing. A lot of IFR pilots are cognizant of the issue and make proper calls, but there are enough that do not to make it a flight safety issue.
 
smv said:
Yet somehow having them barrelling straight in without regard to existing traffic and making "position" calls that no Private pilot should be expected to understand is somehow safer?

Yes, jets have a wider (and usually higher) 'pattern', but that does not preclude them from following proper procedures at uncontrolled fields and working with the existing traffic to make an entry safe for everyone involved. I have been passed in the pattern by jet traffic that was flying higher, faster, and further out than I was but it was coordinated through excellent communication and proper position reports.

All that being said, even though I may have mentioned "jet jockeys" in my original comment, the comment was directed more toward those IFR pilots (as indicated by the "too many IFR pilots" part) of all aircraft who seem to forget that most of the pilots they encounter in the pattern at an uncontrolled field have no way of knowing what they mean by "the initial" and being on an instrument approach in VMC at an uncontrolled field does not give them priority for landing. A lot of IFR pilots are cognizant of the issue and make proper calls, but there are enough that do not to make it a flight safety issue.
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I understood what you were driving at there buddy. I’ve flown jets into uncontrolled airports plenty and you are correct. The pattern rules still apply.
 
Sounds like LAS is facing the same virus related issues now.
 
GrummanBear said:
This is getting really dumb. Boeing 737 engineering has killed 340%ish as many people as this has in the US. My wife was exposed to this by some patients in her ER about a month back (taking care of China evacuees)...not even mildly concerned...the biggest fears amongst most of her medical colleagues is portfolio angst. If you aren’t elderly, obese, or a smoker...odds are you won’t even know you “have” it. When did irrational fear of death come to define western society?

“Sometimes I long for the days when men were made of iron and ships were made of wood.”

*ah, but hope arrives! The feds will borrow $1 trillion, largely by selling bonds to...China...and hand out checks to save us! 60 billion to Boeing! We are saved!
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Zero risk.
 
Pilawt said:
LAS tower freq on LiveATC sounds like a bunch of 152s in the pattern at Podunk Municipal.
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At least it doesn't sound like a bunch of RV's...
"Southwest 1568, overhead break."
"United 721, flight of 5, formation takeoff."
 
Pilawt said:
LAS tower freq on LiveATC sounds like a bunch of 152s in the pattern at Podunk Municipal.
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Talked to an airline guy who got there when it went down, he shot a video of listening to the ATIS (but of course doesn’t exist - naughty naughty). Company had them divert a loooooong way away then go back after reopening so they got the full experience.

They of course timed out so stuck in Vegas overnight and flew home on someone else’s equipment. LOL.

He said it was an interesting day. :)
 
smv said:
Yet somehow having them barrelling straight in without regard to existing traffic and making "position" calls that no Private pilot should be expected to understand is somehow safer?
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I agree that position calls should be made that are understandable to everyone, but I disagree that when there is a wide disparity of airspeeds, having a fast mover barrelling around the pattern is safer than having them barrelling down final. Getting the fast mover on the ground as soon as possible removes the speed disparity problem sooner, and if everyone obeys the 91.113(g) requirement to avoid cutting in front of traffic on final, I believe it's safer. Its just not that hard to extend downwind to accommodate a straight-in.

...All that being said, even though I may have mentioned "jet jockeys" in my original comment, the comment was directed more toward those IFR pilots (as indicated by the "too many IFR pilots" part) of all aircraft who seem to forget that most of the pilots they encounter in the pattern at an uncontrolled field have no way of knowing what they mean by "the initial" and being on an instrument approach in VMC at an uncontrolled field does not give them priority for landing. A lot of IFR pilots are cognizant of the issue and make proper calls, but there are enough that do not to make it a flight safety issue.
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I agree that position calls should use terminology that is understandable to everyone. Furthermore, I don't believe that "the initial" is standard terminology even for IFR pilots in civilian operations. My understanding is that it's used in military operations. It's not in the AIM. "Initial approach fix" and "initial approach segment" are, but as far as I know, those terms are not routinely taught to private-pilot trainees.
 
smv said:
Unfortunately far too many IFR pilots forget their roots and make their not-so-informative traffic calls exactly like this. Joe Bleux flying his 152 in the pattern has absolutely no idea where is "the initial" and even if he does, should not be expected to give way to some jet jockey who is too lazy/stupid/arrogant to properly scan for traffic and enter the pattern in turn.
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yes. I also used "Orange Boeing" instead of an actual tail number, since I assume there would be several at a time hitting that airspace, all "orange boeings"
 
Now JFK is using a ramp tower while the actual tower gets disinfected, and Indy Center went ATC Zero this morning. :eek:
 
Rgbeard said:
I'm waiting for PHX to close the tower, so I can go there and do touch & goes!
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They're putting TFR's up now; apparently too many 150's doing TNG's at Midway.

FAA: we're not having fun unless you're not having fun
 
Jim K said:
They're putting TFR's up now; apparently too many 150's doing TNG's at Midway.

FAA: we're not having fun unless you're not having fun
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Indeed... They all seem to follow the same format. This is the one from KLAS:

FDC 0/9161 ZLA NV..AIRSPACE LAS VEGAS, NV..TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 5 NM RADIUS OF 360545N1150915W (LAS VEGAS VORTAC LAS001001.0) SFC-3000FT AGL. TO PROVIDE A SAFE ENVIRONMENT FOR RESTRICTION OF ACFT. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 91.137(A)(2) TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT. FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION TELEPHONE 661-265-8205 IS IN CHARGE OF THE OPERATION. LOS ANGELES /ZLA/ ARTCC TELEPHONE 661-265-8205 IS THE FAA CDN FACILITY. EFFECTIVE 2003191200 UTC UNTIL 2003270700 UTC. EXC THE FLT OPS LISTED BELOW: 1. ACFT ARRIVING OR DEPARTING LAS AP. 2. LAW ENFORCEMENT, FIREFIGHTING, AND MEDEVAC/AIR AMBULANCE FLTS ON ACTIVE MISSIONS. 3. ACFT OPS NECESSITATED FOR SAFETY OR EMERG REASONS. ALL ACFT APPROVED TO OPERATE WI THE TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS MUST BE SQUAWKING AN ATC DISCRETE CODE AT ALL TIMES WHILE IN THE TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS AND MUST REMAIN IN TWO-WAY RADIO COMM WITH ATC. STUDENT PILOT TRAINING AND TOUCH AND GOES ARE PROHIBITED AT LAS AP. FOR ANY MEDIA CONCERNS CALL THE WASHINGTON OPS CENTER 202-267-3333. 2003191200-2003270700

Edit to add: A STOP and go is completely different than a TOUCH and go.
 
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