McCauley prop corrosion

Jaminky

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Jaminky
Hey y’all,I’ve got a 71-52 prop that needs a overhaul and 2 of the bolt holes have corrosion in them.I’ll attach some pics and see what y’all think.Can they bore the holes out and use a stepped bolt or something?This is 2 holes from 2 different angles,the bolts where absolutely fine,no corrosion and came out fine

IMG_3213.jpegIMG_3212.jpegIMG_3211.jpegIMG_3210.jpeg
 
Drilling out the holes weakens the prop tremendously. There is as much as 40 tons pulling outward on each blade, plus eight other forces. The prop is the most highly stressed component on the whole airplane.

Corrosion pits are often responsible for starting cracks. The prop manufacturers take corrosion very seriously.
 
Possibly a metal defect in the original forged blank - that may be common in McCauley props. From a hub fatigue standpoint the numbers stamped seem a more critical source. Maybe look at some other McCauley props? Never heard of hub failures in fixed pitch props, only blade failures from defects in the leading and trailing edges.

That prop is about 1/8 inch larger in diameter at cruise vs when it is standing still. Not trivial.
 
Can they bore the holes out and use a stepped bolt or something?
Depends on the shop and specific prop whether any repair is possible or available. However, usually when the corrosion has left pitting then your options become very limited or nil. Best option is to call a shop and get their input.
Never heard of hub failures in fixed pitch props,
There has been various fixed pitch hub cracking over the years with associated ADs, but don't recall any in-flight hub failures off-hand.
 
Thanks for the replies!I had no idea on the amount of stress,I guess I just kinda took it for granted lol.A inflight prop breaking would majorly lack,probably considerably shortening your lifespan
 
Thanks for the replies!I had no idea on the amount of stress,I guess I just kinda took it for granted lol.A inflight prop breaking would majorly lack,probably considerably shortening your lifespan

Now anyone know where I can find a used or overhauled one?New ones are 6 months out I’m told and quite pricey
 
Thanks for the replies!I had no idea on the amount of stress,I guess I just kinda took it for granted lol.A inflight prop breaking would majorly lack,probably considerably shortening your lifespan

Now anyone know where I can find a used or overhauled one?New ones are 6 months out I’m told and quite pricey

Before looking for a replacement I would get it to a prop shop and have them give you an official response, the photos might be enough for them to say don't bother bringing it to them. . Or they might says 1. That's normal, not an issue, 2. Easily fixed 3. Needs further inspection to know for sure.

Brian
 
From my untrained eye....that does not look like corrosion. It appears to be a manufacturing defect....called occlusions or porosity formed when pouring the billet.

I've not looked at enough of these to know if this is normal or allowable. It could very well be common and not an issue. A prop shop would know.
 
Does appear to be corrosion. Only a prop shop can tell you what can be done or not.
 
From my untrained eye....that does not look like corrosion. It appears to be a manufacturing defect....called occlusions or porosity formed when pouring the billet.

I've not looked at enough of these to know if this is normal or allowable. It could very well be common and not an issue. A prop shop would know.
It would never have left the factory like that.
 
In Canadian law we have this:

(b) At intervals of not more than 5 years, the propeller shall be removed from the aircraft and inspected for corrosion or other defects over its entire surface, including the hub faces and the mounting hole bores. While the propeller is removed, it shall also be checked for correct dimensions. However, if defects which require repairs beyond those recommended as field repairs by the propeller manufacturer are found, the propeller shall be repaired by an organization approved for the overhaul of propellers.

The McCauley propeller overhaul and repair manual isn't on the web for free, but it would surely mention this. Transport Canada is not in the habit of making stuff up. I used to use a paper copy of the manual to do the dimensional checks.
 
In Canadian law we have this:

(b) At intervals of not more than 5 years, the propeller shall be removed from the aircraft and inspected for corrosion or other defects over its entire surface, including the hub faces and the mounting hole bores. While the propeller is removed, it shall also be checked for correct dimensions. However, if defects which require repairs beyond those recommended as field repairs by the propeller manufacturer are found, the propeller shall be repaired by an organization approved for the overhaul of propellers.

The McCauley propeller overhaul and repair manual isn't on the web for free, but it would surely mention this. Transport Canada is not in the habit of making stuff up. I used to use a paper copy of the manual to do the dimensional checks.
Yes, as noted, this prop needs to go to a prop shop that has the manuals, knows the limits, and has access to the manufacturer if there are any questions or grey zones. Very little can be done to a propellor in the field by an A&P ± IA.
 
Well gents,you were correct.Its corrosion and the prop is red tagged:ihih:.

Any leads on a 7152 or 54 would be appreciated,im not quite ready to shuck out over 5k for a new one
 
That’s a new to me technical term. Please explain.
Loosely it's a form of electrochemical crevice corrosion that sets in when fluid is trapped in a feature (think groove or thread) and never or rarely exchanged. Usually it's worse with large scaling factors, which is a scalar that relates to the depth vs. width of the feature trapping the fluid. Here the bolt would have been "smooth" and the bore was likely fairly smooth, thus in principle leading to a low scaling factor and higher (less acidic) pH in the fluid. That said, the pics do show a "grooved" pattern even on the non-corroded portions. Regardless, the manifestation of the corrosion it the OP's pics does look like it at least partly due to this phenomenon.

Fixed pitch props do occasionally let loose, so getting a brand new one might be a good tradeoff for peace of mind and a solved problem.
 
Fixed pitch props do occasionally let loose, so getting a brand new one might be a good tradeoff for peace of mind and a solved problem.

Periodic prop removal and inspection would catch this stuff before it trashed the prop. I don't think our Canadian five-year corrosion inspection requirement ever adds up to the cost of a new prop, even after 30 or more years.
 
Periodic prop removal and inspection would catch this stuff before it trashed the prop. I don't think our Canadian five-year corrosion inspection requirement ever adds up to the cost of a new prop, even after 30 or more years.
Agree. Not enough suspect get removed regularly is the issue. Canada seems to have nipped the issue in the bud by making sure it comes off at least every five years. The cost of overhauling a fixed pitch in the US is about 1/5 the cost of a new prop!
 
Loosely it's a form of electrochemical crevice corrosion that sets in when fluid is trapped in a feature (think groove or thread) and never or rarely exchanged. Usually it's worse with large scaling factors, which is a scalar that relates to the depth vs. width of the feature trapping the fluid. Here the bolt would have been "smooth" and the bore was likely fairly smooth, thus in principle leading to a low scaling factor and higher (less acidic) pH in the fluid. That said, the pics do show a "grooved" pattern even on the non-corroded portions. Regardless, the manifestation of the corrosion it the OP's pics does look like it at least partly due to this phenomenon.

Fixed pitch props do occasionally let loose, so getting a brand new one might be a good tradeoff for peace of mind and a solved problem.
Sounds like a made up term....well done. It's not found in AC 43.13....nor was it taught at my prestigious university....and giggle was no help

;)
 
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Many US folks add the cost of driving to Missasagua to the work.

ALL were happy.
 
Sounds like a made up term....well done. It's not found in AC 43.13....nor was it taught at my prestigious university....and giggle was no help

;)
The mechanism and scaling factors are known and discussed in the literature. The "stagnant pool" is something that a few academics I know used, but as you note, it's a not a term of art. Does describe the situation well.

So from an aircraft perspective its electrochemical corrosion.
 
The mechanism and scaling factors are known and discussed in the literature. The "stagnant pool" is something that a few academics I know used, but as you note, it's a not a term of art. Does describe the situation well.

So from an aircraft perspective its electrochemical corrosion.
I guess you're background is in aquatics....swimming pool corrosion is very common. ;)
 
Agree. Not enough suspect get removed regularly is the issue. Canada seems to have nipped the issue in the bud by making sure it comes off at least every five years. The cost of overhauling a fixed pitch in the US is about 1/5 the cost of a new prop!
The prop shop doesn't have to do it. A mechanic with a decent pair of eyeballs and the dimensions for that prop can do it. Some prop shops will give you the dimension chart from the manual, too.
 
The prop shop doesn't have to do it. A mechanic with a decent pair of eyeballs and the dimensions for that prop can do it. Some prop shops will give you the dimension chart from the manual, too.
Going back to OP, a decent set of eyes could see that it was corrosion. Based on the amount seen in the pics, the dimensional analysis could still of been perfect - i.e. a pin gage in the mount hole(s) would still be good. However, since there is corrosion, it would take IMHO the repair station to either know that degree of corrosion is acceptable, know that it is not, or have access to the manufacturer if it's a grey zone. Apparently it was not and the prop was condemned since the corrosion caused a defect from which a crack could potentially start.

A mechanic can dress a prop and not a whole lot else. The limits for what can be dressed and what cannot are in AC43 or manufacturer's instructions. Not much nick on an edge and even less depth on a face is allowed. Then there are minimum blend radii and distances to consider.
 
Periodic prop removal and inspection would catch this stuff before it trashed the prop. I don't think our Canadian five-year corrosion inspection requirement ever adds up to the cost of a new prop, even after 30 or more years.
I definitely agree!I just bought this plane a few months ago and had a pre-buy/annual done to it.Prop may or may not have come off during annual
 
It would be interesting to know how deep those corrosion patterns go. IOW how much oversize would the holes have to be reamed or drilled to clean up? Strictly airboat stuff now.
 
I definitely agree!I just bought this plane a few months ago and had a pre-buy/annual done to it.Prop may or may not have come off during annual
It would "not" be common to remove a prop....just because....even for an annual.
 
From Appendix D Part 43 for a 100 hour inspection (or annual). Propellor or aircraft manufacturer may have additional IFCA. Or an AD might require additional steps as well.

(h) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) the following components of the propeller group:

(1) Propeller assembly—for cracks, nicks, binds, and oil leakage.

(2) Bolts—for improper torquing and lack of safetying.

(3) Anti-icing devices—for improper operations and obvious defects.

(4) Control mechanisms—for improper operation, insecure mounting, and restricted travel.
 
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