May 21, PA31 down

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by woodchucker, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Assuming the log was signed by an individual, one could go after that person, and identify anyone else in discovery. Likewise insurance could be based on date of occurrence, not date of claim. Or not.

    A good lawyer knows how to deal with this kind of situation.
     
  2. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Easy to say, but I’d bet most pilots don’t check for proper trim tab orientation during the average preflight, but rather to make sure the cotter pins and necessary hardware is secure. I can admittedly say that it’s not something I routinely check for.
     
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  3. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    If I'm certain the trim and control surfaces haven't been serviced since the last time it's flown, then yes, I just check that the connections are secure. However, if I know that the aircraft has been serviced, you bet I'm checking for correct orientation.
     
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  4. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Well, sure, that’s different. If I know it’s been monkey’d with, I’d absolutely check it for sure, without a doubt. I’m just saying that on any given day, most pilots (I’d assume) don’t verify that the trim tab orientation is correct. They’re just checking that the hardware is installed and secured.
     
  5. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Trim tab? Whazzat?
     
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  6. AKBill

    AKBill En-Route

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    The thingeee in the tail
     
  7. Omalley1537

    Omalley1537 Cleared for Takeoff

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    but my local news said those were flaps...:D
     
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  8. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    In my glider club first flight of the day we always do a positive control check with someone holding each control surface to assure everything is connected properly and securely. We do all the controls, including flaps, spoilers and elevator, rudder. None of the gliders I fly have trim tabs, or I’m sure we’d check them too. I was taught to do it because the wings are easily removable and the controls may have been connected wrong. What I never thought about until now is that wouldn’t require the elevator and rudder checks, but we did them anyway. Good practice.
     
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  9. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Not routinely, but it should definitely be checked after any maintenance. Controlling a big airplane like that without trim is a bear.
     
  10. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Yeah, I do. You don't know me. I check everything I can get my hands and eyes on. I allow my persnickety and obsessive compulsive tendencies rule the day. I have maintenance done at a small strip nestled in hills. I check EVERYTHING.
     
  11. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Alone? Place your phone somewhere to record trim tab movement when you climb into the thing and run it from stop to stop.

    This aint rocket science. Make damn sure you investigate which way it is supposed to go if you don't know.

    If your airplane already functions fine, why not run the tab "full nose trim up" take a picture of the them with your phone and write on the screen "full nose trim up" and do the same with it set in "full nose trim down". Then you have a reference to compare it to later.

    We have a hugely powerful recording device in our phones and it amazes me how many pilots forget that when they are having airplane troubles. Local guy was fighting radios issues in his SR22 and I said, "did you take a video of it?" Blank stare followed with damn that's a great idea.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  12. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    So which is it?

    You don't check everything.
     
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  13. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    How many hours do you have flying Navajos with that multi rating you never got?

    You always check to make sure your gear's down before landing too, right? How'd that work out for you?
     
  14. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    that's going to leave a mark...
     
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  15. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

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    Agree that the amount of fuel taken on means nothing in this case. Have done this drill a few times, picking up an airplane several hours away from home base, after heavy maintenance. When I do the initial preflight, fuel is below tabs and quantity unknown.. i'll go ahead and have it topped off so I have enough for a test flight and the flight home. Then fly 15-20 mins in the local area, land and look over the airplane for any leaks or issues prior to departing on the longer cross country to deliver it back to its home base.
     
  16. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Sorry, my attempt at sublet humor. The Mooney uses an all trimming tail.
     
  17. FancyG

    FancyG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Doubtful. Only 12 nm between MYR and CRE.
     
  18. FancyG

    FancyG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Apparently it went bankrupt the day of the crash but there was a paint shop at MYR.
     
  19. sarangan

    sarangan Cleared for Takeoff

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    A short hop like this between two controlled airports can get very busy, especially in a complex high performance airplane. An autopilot can help relieve the workload. I think it is more likely he engaged the autopilot due to the short distance.
     
  20. FancyG

    FancyG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Once airborne, the controller instructed the pilot to turn left; however, the pilot stated that he needed to return to runway 18.

    Thanks for taking the time out of both of our days to share your wisdom, dude. Spare me next time.
     
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  21. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Some older C182’s do that also.
     
  22. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    In my experience heavier faster aircraft need more trim. If yours differs I’d love to hear about it, though it would violate certain laws of physics. My gear goes down 3 miles from the airport always. I believe that if you wait for the downwind you could be surprised and forget. I suspect I’m right in this, since an airplane gears up every week.
     
  23. sarangan

    sarangan Cleared for Takeoff

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    Sure you have been spared for next time. This is a forum for discussions, not immature insults.
     
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  24. Jeff Szlauko

    Jeff Szlauko Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I don’t get it.
    You start off saying “you can’t see it in the video”,and then go on to say there is some countersteering going on. If you can’t see it, then how do you know it’s going on?
    I ride a motorcycle...a lot...and KNOW that at a real slow speed, if I want to turn to the right, I turn the handlebars to the right...no countersteering going on. Once at a certain speed, I need to push right to go right, so in a sense, I’m applying a pressure to the handlebars in such a way that I’m turning the handlebars to the left to go right. Counter steering means applying OPPOSITE pressure to the handlebars to turn, so in other words, one would turn the handlebars to the left in order to turn right. There is no way that when at a slow speed, one would apply pressure to the handlebars to turn them to the left first in order to go right. Again, I have done this numerous times on my motorcycle, and at slow speeds, I turn the front wheel in the direction I want to turn...no countersteering involved.
     
  25. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Over simplification on my part. So much depends on 'body english' at those slow speeds. Are you leaning with the bike? Or staying upright and keeping the bike underneath you? The gyroscopic precession factor of counter steering at those slow speeds will not have kicked in.
     
  26. Jeff767

    Jeff767 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    He never got high enough to engage a autopilot and the problems began immediately after liftoff. The flight between those airports is a easy flight with one frequency change.
     
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  27. Jeff Szlauko

    Jeff Szlauko Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yeah, no problem. I always found it rather bizarre where at a real slow speed, one just turns the handlebars in the direction you want to turn, so to turn left, you push on the right grip. Then once you hit a certain speed, you need to push on the left grip to turn left. Like you said, certain forces come into play once a certain speed is attained, hence the need to counter-steer.