Maximum weights

D

dp342b

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Derek
Scenario...

You take off at maximum gross weight. 30 minutes into your flight, you make a steep turn. Will the airplane break?
 
dp342b said:
Scenario...

You take off at maximum gross weight. 30 minutes into your flight, you make a steep turn. Will the airplane break?
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No. That is what it is designed to do.

You could get more information in your initial post. What is the airspeed, maneuvering speed, angle of bank, and are you level, climbing or descending? So long as you are below maneuvering speed and below the stall AOA of your airplane, it will not break by simply making a steep turn.

The answer is still no.
 
I pull out of the driveway with all seats in my car occupied. 30 minutes later I encounter a sharp bend in the road. Will my car crash?

EDIT: upon reflection, I realize this came across as sarcastic. Probably too late to apologize, but it was not my intent to insult. I was trying to illustrate that the question could not be answered as asked.
 
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dp342b said:
In other words... you don't know.
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No. Your instructor would probably have a thorough discussion about maneuvering speed and how that changes with the gross weight. A conversation you should have with the person teaching you so you fully understand rather than sgoti.

But since you want to be spoon fed.

www.boldmethod.com

Why Does Maneuvering Speed Change With Weight?

Contrary to popular belief, you can't just throw your stick and rudders back and forth below Va and expect to not bend metal.
www.boldmethod.com www.boldmethod.com
 
Dana said:
No, it means that he doesn't think you would learn much from simply being told the answer.

However, I will say that the answer depends on the aircraft's speed, the bank angle, and the design load factor or the aircraft.
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Well, he said “you” do this, so obviously we’re talking about your airplane and your steep turns.
 
dp342b said:
Scenario...

You take off at maximum gross weight. 30 minutes into your flight, you make a steep turn. Will the airplane break?
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With some of the training aircraft I witnessed over the years it seems like a valid question.
 
dp342b said:
Scenario...

You take off at maximum gross weight. 30 minutes into your flight, you make a steep turn. Will the airplane break?
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Dp342b

1. Why did you ask this question?
2. Why were you rude to the first person who answered it?
3. Why do you call yourself dp342b? Don't you have a name?
4. Are you a reporter?
This sounds like something a reporter would do.
 
Standard category - shouldn't break at maximum gross weight and (from memory) 3.4 G. You are likely to start greying out at that load.
 
William Pete Hodges said:
Dp342b

1. Why did you ask this question?
2. Why were you rude to the first person who answered it?
3. Why do you call yourself dp342b? Don't you have a name?
4. Are you a reporter?
This sounds like something a reporter would do.
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I think if you review his posts since joining (there aren’t many), you come to the conclusion that he is (or is pretending to be) a young teen (middle school age) who is a fledgling student pilot.
 
William Pete Hodges said:
This sounds like something a reporter would do.
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Nah, a reporter would just type: "Witnesses say that the Diamond PA-32 Skylark was loaded to maximum gross weight. But, 30 minutes into its flight, it made a steep turn, causing the tie-rod end to separate from the steering box." (From from his apartment in Brooklyn or office at the NYT.)
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Standard category - shouldn't break at maximum gross weight and (from memory) 3.4 G. You are likely to start greying out at that load.
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Besides, it's most likely to permanently deform before it breaks. :)
 
dp342b said:
Scenario...

You take off at maximum gross weight. 30 minutes into your flight, you make a steep turn. Will the airplane break?
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How steep? Define "break".
 
a lot of crummy answers to original question, and a good question at that. I hope PoA doesn't become a safe place to ask a fair question. here's the deal, as capt thrope stated above, aircraft certified under a particular category have to withstand different min loading , such as standard cat +3.8 G's, under the category it's certified for. example being a c172 is certified in both standard and utility (4.4g) categories for loading ...utility categories allow greater than standard loads but may have some conditions such as max weight or cg limits, or other poh limitations,,, as example the c172 has a restriction that no weight be in aft baggage for utility ops such as for intentional spins even though c172 is not approved for aerobatics (6 g) required for exceeding maneuvering like beyond 60 degree banks.

to add more confusion, over stressing airframe is divided into categories other than wings following off. such as deformity but still being structally sound.

so OP answer is more complicated than it seems. but basic answer is if you maintain manueving within its design, such as GW, banking, airspeed , ect., limits , you won't break the airframe.
 
Lindberg said:
You should ask your CFI.
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Seriously, what's even the point of this type of response??? Can't you just not respond??? Dude is asking for an answer. If you don't know it, then don't respond.
I don't understand the need for people to give these types of responses. It doesn't help anything. What if his CFI said to him, 'Why don't you go find an answer?" And so he came here to a place, FULL of pilots who might know the answer, where he asked a question. Quit beating up on somebody who is seeking knowledge. Share what you know, and if you don't, then be quiet.

My answer to the original question: If the plane is being flown within it structural limitations (typically a load factor), then it should be fine. If the turn was so aggressive that is greater than its load factors allow, then you will most likely bend or break something regardless of the weight. The weight is a mitigating factor which reduces your room. That's how i understand it to work. I think AlphaPilotFlyer's deeper answer is most accurate.
 
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BigghHauss78 said:
Seriously, what's even the point of this type of response???
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Back at ya.
BigghHauss78 said:
Can't you just not respond???
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Ditto.
BigghHauss78 said:
Dude is asking for an answer.
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And likely demonstrating some fundamental gaps in his student pilot knowledge.
BigghHauss78 said:
If you don't know it, then don't respond.
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What makes you think I don't know?
BigghHauss78 said:
I don't understand the need for people to give these types of responses.
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It's what I'd hope one of my students would do if they had such a question.
BigghHauss78 said:
It doesn't help anything.
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I'm sorry it didn't help you. If you don't know the answer, maybe you could ask your CFI.
BigghHauss78 said:
What if his CFI said to him, 'Why don't you go find an answer?" And so he came here to a place, FULL of pilots who might know the answer, where he asked a question.
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If his CFI told him to go ask SGOTI, then either his CFI is lazy, or his CFI is fed up with him for some reason. Either way, I'd suggest a new CFI.
BigghHauss78 said:
Quit beating up on somebody who is seeking knowledge.
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Only a precious snowflake would feel "beat up" by my answer.
BigghHauss78 said:
Share what you know, and if you don't, then be quiet.
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Likewise.
BigghHauss78 said:
My answer to the original question: If the plane is being flown within it structural limitations (typically a load factor), then it should be fine.
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So yes? Or no? And what is "a load factor"?
BigghHauss78 said:
If the turn was so aggressive that is greater than its load factors allow, then you will most likely bend or break something regardless of the weight.
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What do its load factors allow?
BigghHauss78 said:
The weight is a mitigating factor which reduces your room.
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What does this mean?
 
Lindbergh, So if you know all the answers to these questions as you apparently claim in your response above, then why don't you give them and help this guy out?? There can be more than one source for answers and that source does not have to be this persons lone CFI. There simply is no harm in somebody asking a question.

I'm sure flying with you is the same miserable experience you give on POA.
 
This is a really terrible thread. Even if you're going to give a "go find it yourself" kind of answer, at least point towards some useful resources, and recognize the fact that some of the official FAA resources on certain subjects are ****ing terrible. @Racerx gave the best "answer it yourself" resource in post 12.

To answer the question: Maybe. You get 3.8G on a normal category aircraft. After that, things *might* break. In a level turn, you need a 75º bank to exceed 3.8g.

To get to 3.8G you need to pull HARD or trim a lot, hard enough that your face is being pulled down and you might be starting to get tunnel vision, greyouts, and other "fun" effects.

I think @Racerx got why your CFI might have asked. Maneuvering speed is the speed at which the aircraft will stall before it hits the load limit (3.8G). Stall speed increases with the square root of load factor, so your stall speed will be 1.94x normal. Remember that stall speed decreases with decreasing weight, which was probably the point of the "30 minutes after takeoff" part of the question - You will have burned some fuel, so stall speed (and thus 1.94x stall speed) will be lower.

Hope this helps...
 
BigghHauss78 said:
Lindbergh (sic), So if you know all the answers to these questions as you apparently claim in your response above, then why don't you give them and help this guy out??
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If you think there's a simple answer, you might not understand the question. And I responded the way I did because I think the OP might not understand the question....
BigghHauss78 said:
There can be more than one source for answers and that source does not have to be this persons lone CFI. There simply is no harm in somebody asking a question.
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I don't think anyone got offended by his asking a question.
BigghHauss78 said:
I'm sure flying with you is the same miserable experience you give on POA.
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Thank heavens you'll never find out.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
This is a really terrible thread. Even if you're going to give a "go find it yourself" kind of answer, at least point towards some useful resources, and recognize the fact that some of the official FAA resources on certain subjects are ****ing terrible.
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I'm inclined to agree with you. It's discouraging to read threads in which a question--and especially one from a new member--is met with dismissiveness and/or ridicule. It happens too often, driving potential contributors away and baring an ugly side of this select demographic.

Barring evidence to the contrary, inquiries made in good faith are deserving of a courteous and respectful reply. Dp342b's response to Lindberg in post #3 squandered that goodwill, but it left me thinking that the OP would fit right in with a certain clique on this forum.

All of that aside, the actual question that was asked by the OP did elicit some good faith replies, so it must have inspired some readers to think a bit about the matter. And reading through those replies, it certainly seems like the topic could use some thought.

So instead of just another tiresome flame war, we actually gain insight into the behaviours of SOGTI in his natural habitat, and airplanes.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Ah yes, PoA. Where we can simultaneously complain about all of the inexperienced CFIs who don't know enough and can't teach it if they did, while still pointing posters back to said CFIs for the answer to all their questions. :rolleyes:
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Key word “we.” It’s not one poster doing both simultaneously.
 
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