Malaysian Airliner missing?

Matthew said:
Hmmm, if it really did fly for 5 more hours...
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That's already been debunked.

But...considering how this has been unfolding...it wouldn't be surprising if that debunking is debunked before day's end.
 
Not 5 more hours. That's not what the story said. The WSJ said "about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location" based on what their unnamed sources said.

Malaysia is now saying that they checked with Rolls Royce, and Malaysia denies the WSJ story. Rolls Royce says pretty much nothing to the press.

Malaysia now also says that China released those satellite photos by accident and that they do not show parts of the airliner. How they know that is, of course, unexplained.

I think some of what is going on is people seeking to gain attention or just make themselves heard by the world, and fulfilling that personal desire by talking to a press that's really hungry to hear anything. It's hard to know whom to believe.
 
NoHeat said:
I think some of what is going on is people seeking to gain attention or just make themselves heard by the world, and fulfilling that personal desire by talking to a press that's really hungry to hear anything. It's hard to know whom to believe.
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I think you are 100% correct.

Just like all of us in this thread latching on to any possible info in the absence of nothing. Sad thing (particularly for the families), is that the Malaysians are doing a horrible job of information control.
 
Well, my WAG is the airplane is on one of many Iranian air bases in a hangar. No one claiming responsibility leads me to think the plane may later be used in a terror operation against ??? :dunno:

A quick paint job, loaded up with a dirty bomb (Iran has that capability I believe), and it's off to do it's dirty work.

Admittedly pure speculation on my part. :yes:
 
Between Malaysia and China - it looks like there are two places that are trying to do all they can to pretend they understand what's happening, when the reality is that nobody knows. How much time has been lost in the search because of that? Some of it seems like Malaysian authorities are thinking out loud, instead of just saying, "We don't know, we are reviewing all the data we have. What we do know is it left our territorial waters at xxxxAM, and was last positively identified on radar at xxxAM."

I don't know what the Chinese are doing, and haven't payed too much attention at those sat photos they were said to have released. I thought most of the pax were Chinese, so I would expect China to get involved somehow.

I'm not too convinced of any coverup, so far it just looks like the plane went into the water for unknown reasons, and multiple countries and agencies are bumbling around in a situation where they are not used to all the international attention.
 
Geico266 said:
They would have claimed responsibility by now...... unless they intend to use the jet as a weapon in an attack.

Just plain weird.
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I think the latter. No need to draw attention to the run-up when the big show is yet to come.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Here is the interesting thing...

After the first day or so of searching the area where it originally went missing, the Chinese started getting antsy with everybody showing up to search that body of water. Then on Monday, the Malaysian military releases info (very detailed info BTW) that they tracked the aircraft turning around and heading west into the Strait of Malacca and a new search area is established.

Then a day or two later, the Malaysians reverse course and claim they never made such a statement and now the Chinese suddenly release imagery of possible wreckage spotted as a former NTSB Director said 'right where it should be' in the same body of water that they were originally searching.

The cynic in me wonders what the Chinese had to hide in that body of water.

I predict that regardless of what the investigation determines for the cause, based on the poor information flow alone, the conspiracy theories will dog this accident far worse than TWA 800.
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Tom Clancy would be eating this up...
 
CJones said:
Tom Clancy would be eating this up...
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Tom Clancy May have already written about it. ;)

Debt of Honor was written in 1994, and ended with a Japanese pilot flying an empty 747 into the Capitol during a joint session of Congress. 7 years before 9/11.

I have not yet read Threat Vector, but it involves an expansionist China declaring the South China Sea as a protectorate, and plan to invade Taiwan.
 
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Latest...

US Gvt and Rolls Royce say it flew 4 hours after it lost contact. Malaysia comes back and says this is not true.

Malaysia is acting like they really screwed the pooch on this one. They are getting defensive... Fantasy and Denial of Reality...

Can't say our Government wouldn't do the same in a similar situation, the US State Department fed us a bunch of garbage after the Benghazi attack and expected people to believe it.

Citing U.S. national security sources, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday that government personnel were pursuing the possibility that the plane was commandeered “with the intention of using it later for another purpose.’’ The newspaper also said that data transmitted by an onboard monitoring system to Rolls-Royce Plc., the engine manufacturer, suggested that the plane flew for up to five hours in total after its takeoff from Kuala Lumpur at 12:21 a.m. Saturday morning.
Malaysian officials at a press conference Thursday denied the story and said the last engine data were transmitted at 1:07 a.m., about 20 minutes before the aircraft disappeared from civilian radar screens.


http://www.latimes.com/world/worldn...ia-jet-20140313,0,6713372.story#ixzz2vr0nqF32
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Henning said:
I'm sure boats with towed array sonar are on their way.
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I'm sure recon planes with the ability to see subsurface objects have been deployed.

Geico266 said:
Just ask the guys flying our satellites. Pretty sure they are made in China also. ;)
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If they told you they'd have to kill you....

Fearless Tower said:
Here is the interesting thing...

After the first day or so of searching the area where it originally went missing, the Chinese started getting antsy with everybody showing up to search that body of water. Then on Monday, the Malaysian military releases info (very detailed info BTW) that they tracked the aircraft turning around and heading west into the Strait of Malacca and a new search area is established.

Then a day or two later, the Malaysians reverse course and claim they never made such a statement and now the Chinese suddenly release imagery of possible wreckage spotted as a former NTSB Director said 'right where it should be' in the same body of water that they were originally searching.

The cynic in me wonders what the Chinese had to hide in that body of water.

I predict that regardless of what the investigation determines for the cause, based on the poor information flow alone, the conspiracy theories will dog this accident far worse than TWA 800.
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Concur with that. It sure feels like the ministry of disinformation is involved. Who has something to hide?

Geico266 said:
They would have claimed responsibility by now...... unless they intend to use the jet as a weapon in an attack.

Just plain weird.
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In any number of previous incidents the evil doers didn't release a claim of responsibility (or if they did, it was much later). It strikes more fear into people when they're left guessing. Especially if they're left guessing about when a stolen asset will be used as a weapon.

ScottM said:
And today alien abduction moves up the list to become the 3rd likeliest explanation for the disappearance.
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Perhaps Gru has had Dr. Nefario create a new weapon.... :dunno:
 
asgcpa said:
Accidentally?
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It happens from time to time. One recent case was in 2001, when Ukrainian air defence shot down a Russian Tu-154 with a S-200 SAM off the coast of Crimea. Fortunately the jet was half empty and only 78 people perished. In contrast with TWA-800 where conspiracy theorists have to grapple onto straws, the cause was fairly obvious: the airplane was peppered by the warhead rods like a cheese grate. Not that this gives an excuse to occupy Crimea. :-)
 
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timwinters said:
That's already been debunked.

But...considering how this has been unfolding...it wouldn't be surprising if that debunking is debunked before day's end.
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Well, Malaysia has denied it... But does that mean it's been debunked? Or just that they're confused/incompetent/in denial/covering their own asses?
 
nddons said:
Well done, Redtail! I forgot how great the Twilight Zone was, and how eerily relevant to this situation. Thanks for posting.
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so wait......did Flight 33 ever make it back?!?!? I can't find the NTSB report.



:goofy:
 
So, if this airliner is to be used as a weapon later, would not Rolls Royce be able identify engine start and cruise flight giving time to put people on alert, or is the telemetry feature easy to defeat? I imagine there is some sort of antenna and they just have to knock it off. If the terrorists didn't know about the engine telemetry before, they do now.:(
 
10,000 foot long submersible stealth aircraft carrier. Several more will be lost from other countries until Spectre finally attempts to create a new world war. Fear not, Bond will take care of this. :D

This is obviously in Jest. It is not in any way to diminish the loss from these families.
 
Thinking about that engine telemetry... I can see why RR is keeping their mouth shut on the deal. That data must show whether the engines were shut down after a normal landing, or suddenly terminated at altitude by say a missile, or terminated by a rapid descent into the ocean.

If the plane landed, then the world goes on alert, talk of terrorist bomb attacks goes viral, people run scared and avoid big cities, stock market no doubt is affected and depending on where the airplane landed, war with that country might be close at hand.

If the data is not complete due to termination, it crushes people's hopes without real evidence that the airplane came to grief. In addition, if the data suggests termination at altitude in cruise, there could be political sensitivity surrounding this tragedy.

Either way, I trust Rolls Royce and the WSJ more than the Malaysian government at this point.
 
Dav8or said:
Thinking about that engine telemetry... I can see why RR is keeping their mouth shut on the deal. That data must show whether the engines were shut down after a normal landing, or suddenly terminated at altitude by say a missile, or terminated by a rapid descent into the ocean.
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Don't know for sure, but I would guess its not a constant stream of information (maybe an update once a minute?)

I do think it would at least provide good information about altitude. Not sure about airspeed/location. If not direct barometric altitude, the engine operating stats could be analyzed (temps, throttle position, fuel burn etc..) to give an idea of the altitude profile...
 
dell30rb said:
Don't know for sure, but I would guess its not a constant stream of information (maybe an update once a minute?)
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One of the above articles said it broadcast packets of info every 30 minutes. I imagine that at normal engine shut down it broadcasts the final transmission. If they never received the normal shut down, then a lot can happen to a plane in 30 minutes. None of it good.
 
Assuming passengers turned off their cell phones in flight for safety reasons, no one attempting to call them should get through regardless of alleged "ringing".

But if any of those cell phones is on and within range of a cell tower - well, it should be possible to locate the area the cell phone is in.
 
nddons said:
Well done, Redtail! I forgot how great the Twilight Zone was, and how eerily relevant to this situation. Thanks for posting.
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One of my favorite episodes. In fact, prior to seeing it (years ago), I had no idea that JFK used to be Idlewild Airport.

I just drove past Idlewild a few hours ago, on my way to work. I was scanning the sky for Global 33:rofl:
 
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Jim Logajan said:
Assuming passengers turned off their cell phones in flight for safety reasons, no one attempting to call them should get through regardless of alleged "ringing".

But if any of those cell phones is on and within range of a cell tower - well, it should be possible to locate the area the cell phone is in.
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One of the China telecom carriers specifically checked and says that none of their phones are registered on any network.
 
Remember that small portable cellphone jamming devices have been on the market for years. If I was going to try a steal a plane full of passengers with cellphones, that is one of the first switches I would flip. It's a whole lot easier than trying to collect the phones from the passengers and making sure you don't miss one.

My $.02 - this was done by professionals with an agenda and forward planning. That airplane is sitting in a hangar somewhere in a non-friendly country.
 
airguy said:
Remember that small portable cellphone jamming devices have been on the market for years. If I was going to try a steal a plane full of passengers with cellphones, that is one of the first switches I would flip. It's a whole lot easier than trying to collect the phones from the passengers and making sure you don't miss one.

My $.02 - this was done by professionals with an agenda and forward planning. That airplane is sitting in a hangar somewhere in a non-friendly country.
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Except.... that you would have to get that piece of electronic kit onboard with you. I'm sure with planning that it could be disguised as a laptop or whatever... but it would probably take a good bit of power... especially to run over time.
 
WBI Flyer said:
Except.... that you would have to get that piece of electronic kit onboard with you. I'm sure with planning that it could be disguised as a laptop or whatever... but it would probably take a good bit of power... especially to run over time.
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You'd be surprised - inside the Faraday cage of an airliner you could get away with about 5 watts radiated power and it would completely blank out everything inside. 5 watts isn't much, not difficult to keep that powered up long enough to do a proper search and dispose of all electronic devices.

And as for getting the equipment on board - this is Malaysia we're talking about after all.

Assuming this airplane landed somewhere and is being hidden rather than crashed into the ocean somewhere (apologies to the families, but...) then the passengers are done for - there can't be any witnesses. I just don't see any possible positive outcome here.
 
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I'm pretty sure that eventually one of the passengers is going to climb to the top of that nearby mountain and get some bars on his cellphone and then we'll have some answers. :goofy:
 
redtail said:
One of my favorite episodes. In fact, prior to seeing it (years ago), I had no idea that JFK used to be Idlewild Airport.

I just drove past Idlewild a few hours ago, on my way to work. I was scaning the sky for Global 33:rofl:
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Great work Redtail ... we need more people like you with a "Can Do" attitude!;)
 
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