Maintenance shop wants to add markup on the work of prop / engine shop! Is this normal?

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by German guy, Dec 9, 2017.

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Maintenance shop adds 10% - 20% profit margin on the work of prop and engine repair shops.

  1. This is absolutely reasonable and normal.

    15 vote(s)
    44.1%
  2. This is probably not good style but also not uncommom.

    11 vote(s)
    32.4%
  3. They are ripping you off!

    8 vote(s)
    23.5%
  1. Bell206

    Bell206 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Gg:
    Unfortunately, I think you're a bit late in the whole process to keep the high ground after you verbally OK'd the engine removal based on a verbal estimate. Now there is a complex situation with 3rd parties involved and the shop, for whatever reasons, is covering their financial liabilities as the project gets deeper. Without a written version of the estimate to guide the specifics I'm afraid you're at a disadvantage. Before it bleeds more, I would recommend a work stoppage, regroup, and get things as they stand today in writing from all parties you plan to send a dollar to.
     
  2. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

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    True, but he should be able to get an explanation to the costs.
     
  3. German guy

    German guy Line Up and Wait

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    This is exactly what I am complaining about - costs almost doubled, but no reasonable explanation. AFTER they had ripped the plane and the engine apart.
     
  4. Tom-D

    Tom-D Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You never know what it in any engine until you tear it down.
    I just finished an estimate for a prop strike tear down on a 0-300 If the crank is re-grindable it is a $710,00 charge to re grind and polish.
    If not it's $8763.66 for a new one.
    If the cam is good to regrind it's $190.00
    If not it's 2098.18 for a new one.

    Things change a lot went the micrometer is applied.

    Like I've said many times, every engine is a Pandora's box.
     
  5. Salty

    Salty Cleared for Takeoff

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    Taking my engine hostage and charging me for the privilege is bs I wouldn't stand for.
     
  6. GRG55

    GRG55 En-Route

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    That seems quite a different issue from the problem described by the thread title.
     
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  7. German guy

    German guy Line Up and Wait

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    Sorry for the confusion, I tried to keep the initial post brief and focus on what I thought is the main issue. Thinking about it, the unexplained jump of the repair cost and that they now hold the engine and the aircraft hostage is however the real issue. Only because of the much higher than expected repair costs, we though about going for a full overhaul, as this at least adds some value to the aircraft.
     
  8. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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  9. Omalley1537

    Omalley1537 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The markup on others’s work is standard business practice. The part that concerns me is where they are marking up the work but still (a) making you deal with the outside company and (b) saying that in the event you have an issue you’ll have to deal with the company. The only reason anyone would be willing to pay said markup is for the convenience of having the primary shop deal with it for them.

    The other deal breaker for me would be them insisting on which shops I use. BS. If I’m dropping 30+ on an OH, you better believe I’m going where I want to go. That’s certainly not to say that I wouldn’t listen to the primary shop’s input from experience etc. But I’ll be darned if you’ll tell me “you have to go here...”
     
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  10. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    But you gotta have your A&P's buy off on the engine...
     
  11. Salty

    Salty Cleared for Takeoff

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    No. You have to have AN A&P signoff. That A&P has no right to do work on your plane you don’t approve of.
     
  12. Omalley1537

    Omalley1537 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I see your point if I have “Billy Bob’s Discount Overhauls” do the engine. But he mentioned Zephyr. That’s a recognized shop in the industry based upon what I’ve seen/read. There should be no reason for the A&P to refuse signing that I can see. Personally I’d be finding a new shop if I were the OP. Sounds like they are putting their kids through Harvard...
     
  13. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Well, only he can make that decision.
     
  14. German guy

    German guy Line Up and Wait

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    Thank you very much for all your responses, they were certainly most helpful.
    I sent on Sunday an e-mail, requesting the shop to invoice us for the work they have already done, so that we have a clear cut.

    Monday we had another call, to which they came much better prepared and with a more open attitude. It turned out that the engine overhaul would include a brand new crankcase (Zephyr assumed a used one) and that they had $3,000 for crating, shipping, handling, profit and the handling of future warranty claims baked it. The overhaul itself was almost exactly $30,000. Considering the new crankcase, but otherwise identical contents compared to Zephyr (minus the one way shipping which was included in the Zephyr price), the quote now made much more sense and was pretty much on the same level as Zephyr, who quoted $27,900 with a used crankcase.

    Our maintenance shop was also willing to lower their markup to $2,000, the total now comes to $32,000 plus the costs for the for removal and installation of the engine. The overhaul is done by a pretty reputable engine shop for which I found quite a few recommendations on PoA and in the Mooney forum. It comes with a 2 year warranty.

    Please understand that I don't want to mention any names, as I still find the tone, the poor preparation and in-transparency of our shop's past communication unacceptable. I therefore feel that I neither have to warn other pilots, nor do I at this point want to promote them.

    I am glad, though, that things worked out OK. I received earlier today a formal quote, based on which I already placed an order.

    Oliver
     
  15. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Glad it worked out Oliver. Now I hope they deliver.
     
  16. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route PoA Supporter

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    All in all, a good discussion with some lessons for the plane owner and the shop owner.

    Now get that thing back in the air, schnell!
     
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  17. Isosceles

    Isosceles Filing Flight Plan

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    could not help it...
     
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  18. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Final Approach

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    Sounds like comparing apples to apples is a better idea than comparing apples to oranges.
     
  19. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

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    Funny how actually communicating solves problems. Good to hear.
     
  20. blueskyMD

    blueskyMD Pre-takeoff checklist

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    what the shop doing to you is totally unfair and there is no way to justify this. I am pretty sure they will be able to keep their lights on without the 20% markup on engine but this is just simply greed. I am always OK with markup on the parts but markup on services done by others is unheard of. But your situation is messy and there at no good options. sorry
     
  21. Paulie

    Paulie Ejection Handle Pulled

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    No markup on services done by others? It's done by many different businesses. What about magneto overhauls, the engine shop probably sends them out, so that's a third hand outsource. Fuel servo overhaul? How many engine shops do you think are willing to buy the equipment to do that? Radio repairs? Do you realize how many specialized shops there are in the aircraft industry?
     
  22. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

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    Math is hard...