M20K Owners

[Adam Weiss]

My partner and I have zeroed in on an M20K as our plane of choice.
We were contemplating several different models in the M20 series, but as part of our individual missions, we will both need to fly from the Midwest over the Rockies, and the Turbo seems like a must-have for that. I have owned in the past, but never a turbo.

I read online you can expect at least 1 set of cylinders and 2 turbo overhauls between engine overhauls, adding an additional $20K+ between overhauls. With the TBO at 1800 hrs, and us putting 200-300 hrs on the plane per year, would we expect to overhaul the turbo every 2-3 years and cylinders every 3-5 years? Seems like a lot of down time.

If there are any M20K (or other Turbo Mooney) owners on here, I'd love to hear your thoughts, as well as some real-world performance and MX costs.

Right now, we're planning on 170-175kts TAS on 13-14gph.
And we're planning on budgeting $5K/yr for annual and maintenance and assuming engine reserve based on $30K overhaul.

Again, I'd love to hear your real-world numbers and any advice/guidance you could give when picking the right M20K.

 

[Hank S]

Lots of K owners here: www.mooneyspace.com

Running 65% power Lean of Peak will often extend cylinder life and reduce top overhauls. No idea about servicing turbos, as my Mooney doesn't have one.

Fly safe! Hope to see you around.

 

[hindsight2020]

Lots of K owners here: www.mooneyspace.com

Running 65% power Lean of Peak will often extend cylinder life and reduce top overhauls. No idea about servicing turbos, as my Mooney doesn't have one.

Fly safe! Hope to see you around.

Well, yours doesn't have a continental engine either, but your advice to run 65% or less for cylinder longevity is 100% on point. I would argue even more so for continental cylinders than lycomings.

--break break break-- -- - -- -- - - --

OP, 14gph is flogging the TSIO. You are going to see reduced cylinder life running it like that. As to turbos, they're not going to require overhaul that quickly (2 per TBO) but the installation of an upper deck controller will make a marked difference in the longevity of the impeller and the general operating temperature of that thing. Having the upper deck controller essentially unload your turbo at selected induction pressure settings of ambient or below, means less time under heat and expansion. It will also negate the need to cool it down on the ground, since it would have already been unloaded throughout the taxi and let down. This will make a difference over 60 shutdown cycles a year or whatever. Additionally, a variable wastegate by definition increases your critical altitude.

Most of the issues you are to run in the 231 regard the baseline installation cooling, and the induction cooling by proxy. The 252 is often touted as superior based on these two improvements, but nothing says you can't attain the same baseline by operating a stock 231 more conservatively, or modding it to attain as close to a 252 setup as possible (namely, intercooler and upper deck controller, which I think the former also improves the baffling of the stock setup, another detriment of the stock 231 vice the 252). An intercooler install is not cheap though, and some would argue just run a controller and don't flog the engine, and use the difference for 100LL and steak dinners.

There are other issues not heat related that will increase your mx costs on the turbo conti that a lycoming doesn't have, but that's a sunk cost to you as it seems you've eliminated the 201 (J) from consideration. At least you got a partner, so you're insulated from the full brunt of $$ boo boos you could encounter. Good luck!

 

[MooneyDriver78]

$30K for a 6 cylinder turbo?? No first hand experience but that seems low to me.


Tom

 

[gsengle]

$30K for a 6 cylinder turbo?? No first hand experience but that seems low to me.


Tom

Yeah my guess, just based on being around this stuff, is closer to 50


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[flyingcheesehead]

My partner and I have zeroed in on an M20K as our plane of choice.

First question: 231, or 252?

We were contemplating several different models in the M20 series, but as part of our individual missions, we will both need to fly from the Midwest over the Rockies, and the Turbo seems like a must-have for that. I have owned in the past, but never a turbo.

It's not a must-have. I've flown my Ovation over the Rockies a few times. I've got as much power as a K at 8000 feet even without a blower, and I can do 500fpm up to around 15,000.

That said, a turbo would certainly be nice for such a mission... And if I was going to be doing that myself, I'd actually look for a Bravo (M20M) with TKS de-ice. That will give you much better performance up high (in case you get in trouble in the mountains), and allow you to deal with the icing you'll invariably encounter on that route.

And we're planning on budgeting $5K/yr for annual and maintenance and assuming engine reserve based on $30K overhaul.

You won't get that engine overhauled for $30K. The number used by AOPA VRef, which I've found to be pretty accurate for what you'll pay the overhaul shop, shows $44,000. I've also found that the R&R cost to your local shop will be around $6K, so figure $50,000 for the overhaul or about $28/hr.

The amount you'll spend on maintenance is very dependent on how good of an airplane you buy, how much you fly it and how well you maintain it. $5K/year is probably at least a little optimistic, and that's if it doesn't include any engine overhaul costs. If you get a really good airframe, fly it regularly, and maintain it well, you may get away with $5K/year, but again that doesn't count anything toward the engine or turbo overhauls.

 

[hindsight2020]

You won't get that engine overhauled for $30K. The number used by AOPA VRef, which I've found to be pretty accurate for what you'll pay the overhaul shop, shows $44,000. I've also found that the R&R cost to your local shop will be around $6K, so figure $50,000 for the overhaul or about $28/hr.

The amount you'll spend on maintenance is very dependent on how good of an airplane you buy, how much you fly it and how well you maintain it. $5K/year is probably at least a little optimistic, and that's if it doesn't include any engine overhaul costs. If you get a really good airframe, fly it regularly, and maintain it well, you may get away with $5K/year, but again that doesn't count anything toward the engine or turbo overhauls.

Buh buh but I thought mooneys ran on unicorn farts and were made of zero mx Vibranium.

Jest aside, that airframe shouldn't be a big deal to mx all in all. It's the engine that's gonna be the inflection point in that ownership imo. 50K for 200HP? Dang, that's steep. You can overhaul a 540-K for less and get 100 extra ponies, and that's with 6 stupid priced Lyco angled cylinders mind you.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Buh buh but I thought mooneys ran on unicorn farts and were made of zero mx Vibranium.

That's only after you're done filling them with m(o)oney.

Jest aside, that airframe shouldn't be a big deal to mx all in all. It's the engine that's gonna be the inflection point in that ownership imo. 50K for 200HP? Dang, that's steep. You can overhaul a 540-K for less and get 100 extra ponies, and that's with 6 stupid priced Lyco angled cylinders mind you.

Yeah, that's where the Bravo starts to look better - Its 270hp TIO-540 is $56K to overhaul (plus $6K R&R), but it's got a 2000 TBO so the hourly cost is only about 10% more, and the per-mile overhaul cost is about the same... But you're going a bit faster and have much better climb performance.