Lost comm... on the ground

Mistake Not...

Mistake Not...

Cleared for Takeoff
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Mistake Not...
Putting this here, rather than one of the apparently more relevant forums, because it's so low probability as to be dumb. But.

You're at the hold short line at a controlled field. You have not been cleared for takeoff. There is an airplane behind you. You suddenly lose both radios and transponder (say... electrical system failure.)

What do you do?

* Can't back up, can't turn around, can't (shouldn't) go onto active runway.
* At my class C, it's a big no no to exit the plane outside the non movement area (class C).

let's assume you can't call on a cell phone. What now?
 
Learn your light gun signals and procedures.

ATC-Light-Gun-Signals.gif
 
Signal to aircraft behind you that you lost comms and tell them to relay the message to tower.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Learn your light gun signals and procedures.

ATC-Light-Gun-Signals.gif
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From, say, 18L at KHSV, it's hard (impossible? I need to see if I can) see the tower from the left seat of a mooney. But agreed, this is probably the general answer.
 
ircphoenix said:
I mean yeah but... how does the tower know you're comm-less?
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Eventually they're going to want to know if you're ready for takeoff or the aircraft behind will get impatient and request takeoff. Once no reply is given, local will grab the light gun. Probably get the trail aircraft to taxi clear and give a flashing white.
 
If you left room, turn to face tower and flash landing light to get attention? Would 7600 do any good on the ground? Switch radios?

Hadn't thought about it because I'd grab my handheld.
 
Matthew said:
If you left room, turn to face tower and flash landing light to get attention?
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This is what we are told for movement area training (driving vehicles on the airport).
1) Turn and flash brights at the tower
2) Call Airport Operations
3) Call your supervisor and have them relay info to the tower
 
Mistake Not... said:
Interesting. How do I do that?
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Open the door/window/etc and waive your arm. Turn lights on/off. Do a 180 turn (they'll notice that for sure) back to the run-up.

Worst case -- shut down where you're at and wait for for Airport Operations to roll a truck out to figure it out.
 
Matthew said:
If you left room, turn to face tower and flash landing light to get attention? Would 7600 do any good on the ground? Switch radios?

Hadn't thought about it because I'd grab my handheld.
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7600 would be seen but the OP said transponder was inop. Having a very bad day.:(
 
Like I said... this is just really unlikely. But, the thread has already been a useful thought exercise (for me, anyway). After it happens is too late. I think I'll start leaving a bit of room between me and the hold short line so I -can- turn toward tower / get out of the way.

This scenario occurred to me sitting at 18L (KHSV) waiting to depart and after just having studied the lost comms stuff for IFR. If I had a jet behind me, there's no room to turn around and taxi back, I'm right at the line, so any turning / movement would be a runway incursion, I can't see the tower and would have to unbuckle and slide right to even have a chance, etc.
 
Zeldman said:
Hit the reset button..???
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Yeah, Control +Alt +Delete would be good in this scenario.

But really, a situation like this, is a prime reason to have a handheld comm in your flight bag.
 
I would shut down open the door and get the attention of the plane behind you. Ask them to radio the towel for instruction. ----Correction TOWER!!!
 
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Mistake Not... said:
Putting this here, rather than one of the apparently more relevant forums, because it's so low probability as to be dumb. But.

You're at the hold short line at a controlled field. You have not been cleared for takeoff. There is an airplane behind you. You suddenly lose both radios and transponder (say... electrical system failure.)

What do you do?

* Can't back up, can't turn around, can't (shouldn't) go onto active runway.
* At my class C, it's a big no no to exit the plane outside the non movement area (class C).

let's assume you can't call on a cell phone. What now?
Click to expand...

I've had this happen.

You leave the run-up-area when it is safe to do so, and park the airplane. Then call the tower on the local intercom to tell them what happened.

I have yet to see a run-up area so close to the runway that you can't turn around without entering the runway. If you have one, complain to the airport manager. Sometimes airplanes don't pass run-up checks.
 
I don't think this was necessarily a scenario in the run up area, it was at the hold-short line when the pilot had not left himself any room to turn around.
 
Yeah, at the hold short line. How I got here, conceptually, was "AVE F MEA". Hmmm. Are there any scenarios that doesn't cover? I wonder if it's possible to get in a lost comm situation that...

The light gun is the way out, as is the handheld (which I still need to get). From there it gets less and less convenient / safe.
 
Using your landing light, face the tower and send morse code message w/ your light.

Cirrus? Hell just pull, explain it later.
 
Matthew said:
I don't think this was necessarily a scenario in the run up area, it was at the hold-short line when the pilot had not left himself any room to turn around.
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Then, it's a LOT easier. You will be cleared for takeoff. You will not respond. Then, you'll get a light gun. Probably flashing white or flashing green.

The hard part is getting out of the movement area with no radio communications, when you aren't expecting anything from Tower.
 
MAKG1 said:
When they clear you for takeoff and you don't respond.
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Yeah, eventually they'll try to get you either on ground or tower and try to ask what's going on.

My only "lost comm" was when I was a student - I could transmit but not receive, and was approaching my class D airport on a solo flight. I was about to turn around before I busted into D and try to figure out my next step when I realized I had banged into the volume knob and turned it way down. It was really bumpy that day and when I had changed freqs I had gotten jostled enough that I bumped the volume. Turned it back up and heard tower trying to reach me. Lesson learned, know what that little "T" means, verify freqs, verify you are selected to transmit on the radio you think you are, and make sure to check the volume by flip/flopping to ATIS or something else that's broadcasting. No harm done, and a lesson I still remember.
 
mscard88 said:
Using your landing light, face the tower and send morse code message w/ your light.

Cirrus? Hell just pull, explain it later.
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Morse code...... great idea.!!!

Anyone here under the age of 50 know Morse code..???
 
Zeldman said:
Morse code...... great idea.!!!

Anyone here under the age of 50 know Morse code..???
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You do ID VORs, right?

Just flashing a light at the tower will tell them something is wrong. But it's unnecessary. There is a line; they will clear you for takeoff as soon as it is safe to do so, and then discover you don't have comms.
 
VOR.....???? Whatzat..???? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

When I need to ID a VOR I have the printed morse code in front of me. I have had to ID more NDBs though, the ones that are left....
 
I'd just shut down the aircraft in the runup area and walk back to the ramp and down a couple beers.
 
Id call the tower on my cell and probably just request a taxi back to parking.
 
My lost comm story... I flew from home airport to a local class D. Cleared for landing. Nice touchdown with a quick right onto the first taxi. Pulled past the hold short, called the tower, and got dead air. Taxi to parking. After lunch, out to the plane, switch to second radio, taxi to runup. From runup, call tower and got dead air on number 2. Now, neither works. I pulled out the cellphone, called the tower, got flight following, and light gun for take off. Direct home. Grease the landing. Parked. Diagnosed the radio issue. Both popped loose from the rail carrier. Yah but... failed intermittently and it is now sitting in the radio shop, and has been since November.
I'll need a second mortgage on the house to pay for the upgrade.
 
Grab the handheld from my bag.

Had a total electrical failure on about a 1mile final. Put the gear down, saw 3 green and then the lights went out. I was #2 and watch #1 land, kept watching the tower and never saw the lights. Runway was clear so I landed, rolled clear and grabbed the handheld. Told tower what happened and they cleared me to taxi to the ramp.

Handhelds are great.
 
retpd2001 said:
Don't forget your cell phone next time?
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That's what I was thinking except I always have my phone... the question is could I find the number for the tower before they started shooting photons in my direction?
 
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