Looong XC flight for Commercial Pilot.... DONE!

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

Touchdown! Greaser!
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
one of the items that needed doing in prep for Commercial Pilot is a solo cross country trip of more than 300 miles to 3 airports with the longest leg being 250nm or more. For me, Galveston to Denton, TX fits nicely for that long leg.

Bonus was that @JCranford post on Facebook that He and @Mrs. J Cranford wanted to celebrate 1 year of owning N200RC by flying out to Tyler, TX, and have breakfast at the Skyline Cafe.

"Perfect!" says I, "that will be airport #1, and will set me up for easily staying east of Houston's Bravo"

So we both fire our engines, John in his Centurion and me in the Skylane, and we are off to Tyler.

The entire flight was a good one for me. Had to play lots of "dodge the build ups" on the way down to Houston from Tyler. And was first time to be on east side of Houston. Also first time to see the San Jacinto monument... that thing is way bigger than I thought it was.

Also first time to fly myself to Galveston. So that's one more pin in my Airports Visited map.

And the lady ATC controller who was working the SE sector of Houston approach was awesome. Bright, clear, and enthusiastic voice. She really made traversing that area amongst the rain clouds and traffic easy, and was actually fun to listen to her work.


However, the real Academy Award of the day goes to John... who found out during his approach to the Tyler airport that the airport diner we were planning to eat at..... was closed and would not open until a few more hours.

John, how about Ozzie's next weekend? Someone else has the Skylane so I'll ride with you and buy the breakfast and help with the liquified dinosaurs.
 
I’m headed out to east Texas to my mom’s next weekend. Maybe the weekend after.

Thanks for leaving out the embarrassing part where someone forgot to see if the cafe was actually open for breakfast...

Glad you got the long x/c out of the way in an enjoyable fashion.

If you need someone to critique your Lazy 8’s....I’m probably not your guy...
 
AggieMike88 said:
one of the items that needed doing in prep for Commercial Pilot is a solo cross country trip of more than 300 miles to 3 airports with the longest leg being 250nm or more. For me, Galveston to Denton, TX fits nicely for that long leg.

Bonus was that @JCranford post on Facebook that He and @Mrs. J Cranford wanted to celebrate 1 year of owning N200RC by flying out to Tyler, TX, and have breakfast at the Skyline Cafe.

"Perfect!" says I, "that will be airport #1, and will set me up for easily staying east of Houston's Bravo"

So we both fire our engines, John in his Centurion and me in the Skylane, and we are off to Tyler.

The entire flight was a good one for me. Had to play lots of "dodge the build ups" on the way down to Houston from Tyler. And was first time to be on east side of Houston. Also first time to see the San Jacinto monument... that thing is way bigger than I thought it was.

Also first time to fly myself to Galveston. So that's one more pin in my Airports Visited map.

And the lady ATC controller who was working the SE sector of Houston approach was awesome. Bright, clear, and enthusiastic voice. She really made traversing that area amongst the rain clouds and traffic easy, and was actually fun to listen to her work.


However, the real Academy Award of the day goes to John... who found out during his approach to the Tyler airport that the airport diner we were planning to eat at..... was closed and would not open until a few more hours.

John, how about Ozzie's next weekend? Someone else has the Skylane so I'll ride with you and buy the breakfast and help with the liquified dinosaurs.
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CONGRATS on the long XC.
 
I’m just a ppl, but what’s the point of that requirement? Just to burn fuel to show you can get from point A to B with two potty/caffeine breaks?

I can understand the private pilot long XC... that’s a new experience. But after that, just to drill holes in the sky?

Follow up question: if, as a private pilot, I log that same distance and three airport requirements would that be acceptable in meeting a future commercial cert requirement? Sorry, just curious. I hope to get my commercial someday and if I do I guess I would drag my wife along and make a vacation out of it.

I think I actually have done that, flying from salt lake to Denver, and stopping twice along the way. The first stop was for fuel at an airport that didn’t have fuel available that I could find. The second stop before arrival was for actual fuel in Fort Collins. I learned a lesson about calling ahead to verify things.

That was my first long XC where you guys really helped me out in planning. I had a thread here about it. And even though it was an anniversary trip with my wife you guys were checking in to see if I was okay.

For that I appreciate you all.
 
woodchucker said:
I’m just a ppl, but what’s the point of that requirement? Just to burn fuel to show you can get from point A to B with two potty/caffeine breaks?

I can understand the private pilot long XC... that’s a new experience. But after that, just to drill holes in the sky?

Follow up question: if, as a private pilot, I log that same distance and three airport requirements would that be acceptable in meeting a future commercial cert requirement? Sorry, just curious. I hope to get my commercial someday and if I do I guess I would drag my wife along and make a vacation out of it.

I think I actually have done that, flying from salt lake to Denver, and stopping twice along the way. The first stop was for fuel at an airport that didn’t have fuel available that I could find. The second stop before arrival was for actual fuel in Fort Collins. I learned a lesson about calling ahead to verify things.

That was my first long XC where you guys really helped me out in planning. I had a thread here about it. And even though it was an anniversary trip with my wife you guys were checking in to see if I was okay.

For that I appreciate you all.
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It’s a solo cross country, so taking your wife won’t work unless she’s a Cfi. For some reason it’s ok to have a CFI, but not a non CFI aboard for the flight. I don’t really get the logic, but it is what it is.
 
woodchucker said:
I’m just a ppl, but what’s the point of that requirement? Just to burn fuel to show you can get from point A to B with two potty/caffeine breaks?

I can understand the private pilot long XC... that’s a new experience. But after that, just to drill holes in the sky?
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For your private training, you have to do dual XC's and solo XC's but if you wanted to, you could do the solo XC's and still stay in the same area you used for your dual flights thus never having to have navigated anywhere new to you without an instructor. This is only my guess, but it seems the idea here is for you fly to a location that you likely would not have visited first with a more experienced pilot in the plane.

Follow up question: if, as a private pilot, I log that same distance and three airport requirements would that be acceptable in meeting a future commercial cert requirement? Sorry, just curious. I hope to get my commercial someday and if I do I guess I would drag my wife along and make a vacation out of it.
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All flight experience required to qualify for the commercial check ride is gained while you're a private pilot. But if you want to do this one with the wife, she'll have to drive and meet you there. The commercial long XC is required to be solo*. I flew from New Jersey to Florida to visit my sister for mine. Way longer than it needed to be but if I was spending the cash I figured I'd make it useful for something.

*Solo or with a CFI as pointed out above. Sorry, been a long time since I had to worry about this stuff.
 
Question, why did you specifically have to do this long cross-country couldn't any cross-country you've done in the past apply for this?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Question, why did you specifically have to do this long cross-country couldn't any cross-country you've done in the past apply for this?
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If he was solo and it met the requirements of the flight then for sure! Like me if I'm flying that far my wife is usually with me. So for me I have to make a special trip to accomplish the requirement. Stupid If you ask me but whatever.hahaha
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Question, why did you specifically have to do this long cross-country couldn't any cross-country you've done in the past apply for this?
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Yes. They can.

But for me, my really long cross countries that qualified for the distance either had someone with me, or did not include a third airport.

So your solo flight to AirVenture may qualify because you had multiple airports and possibly the distance.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Question, why did you specifically have to do this long cross-country couldn't any cross-country you've done in the past apply for this?
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He could have, if he’d done one that meets https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/61.129

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and
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I’m thinking my KY Dam flight might qualify for the comm xc.

KJQF KHVC M34 KUCY KUTA KJQF

does it matter that it was over a coupl’a days?
 
The rules of the kingdom say:

§61.129 Aeronautical experience.
(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

. . . .

(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a single engine airplane with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph (a)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under §61.127(b)(1) that include—​

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and​

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.​
 
eman1200 said:
I’m thinking my KY Dam flight might qualify for the comm xc.

KJQF KHVC M34 KUCY KUTA KJQF

does it matter that it was over a coupl’a days?
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I just quoted the rule... nothing there says same day.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Yes. They can.

But for me, my really long cross countries that qualified for the distance either had someone with me, or did not include a third airport.

So your solo flight to AirVenture may qualify because you had multiple airports and possibly the distance.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I think it was 1500 mi and 2 stops each leg. My fuel tanks are little.
 
AggieMike88 said:
The rules of the kingdom say:

§61.129 Aeronautical experience.
(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

. . . .

(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a single engine airplane with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph (a)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under §61.127(b)(1) that include—​

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and​

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.​
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I wounder why SOLO flight? Do they think some will help you?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Question, why did you specifically have to do this long cross-country couldn't any cross-country you've done in the past apply for this?
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Not just any cross-county, it would have to be a flight of at least 300nm with landings at two different airports. I had flights in book at that point which were certainly long enough, but none of them were solo and most didn't include landing at a third airport.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Question, why did you specifically have to do this long cross-country couldn't any cross-country you've done in the past apply for this?
Click to expand...
This flight would have checked the box... except for the fact that there was not a third airport involved and I had the fun of enjoying your company.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
I wounder why SOLO flight? Do they think some will help you?
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Yes. They're not going to say "you can bring a passenger, as long as they're not instructor"; they don't regulate qualifications of passengers.
 
dmspilot said:
Yes. They're not going to say "you can bring a passenger, as long as they're not instructor"; they don't regulate qualifications of passengers.
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They say, you can’t bring a passenger, unless it is an instructor, which makes no more sense.
 
Salty said:
They say, you can’t bring a passenger, unless it is an instructor, which makes no more sense.
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Only recently added to acquiesce the insurance industry, the instructor must certify the pilot performs all the duties of PIC.
 
Congrats! I'm probably one of the few odd balls who plans to do the "solo" commercial cross country with an instructor. I don't have any complex time yet, so I plan to do the long cross country in a complex with an instructor.
 
I still need to do mine. I flew from Reno to Cienfuegos, Cuba but had a passenger (my non-pilot wife) so it doesn't count. Dumb rule.
 
DesertNomad said:
I still need to do mine. I flew from Reno to Cienfuegos, Cuba but had a passenger (my non-pilot wife) so it doesn't count. Dumb rule.
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I agree...it is a dumb rule.
 
CC268 said:
Congrats! I'm probably one of the few odd balls who plans to do the "solo" commercial cross country with an instructor. I don't have any complex time yet, so I plan to do the long cross country in a complex with an instructor.
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The clause that allows a CFI along while you "perform duties as PIC" does NOT allow for dual instruction during this time. It is not "dual received" and should not be logged as such.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2014/kuhn - (2014) legal interpretation.pdf

Also, if you plan to have the CFI while you "perform duties as PIC" instead of being solo, you then have to have the instructor along for the entire rest of the 10 solo hours - you can't mix and match.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...016/grannis - (2016) legal interpretation.pdf
 
RussR said:
The clause that allows a CFI along while you "perform duties as PIC" does NOT allow for dual instruction during this time. It is not "dual received" and should not be logged as such.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2014/kuhn - (2014) legal interpretation.pdf

Also, if you plan to have the CFI while you "perform duties as PIC" instead of being solo, you then have to have the instructor along for the entire rest of the 10 solo hours - you can't mix and match.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2016/grannis - (2016) legal interpretation.pdf
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Yes I know. I'm most likely going to use the opportunity to fly to California, as I have wanted to do that, but I'd like to do it with an instructor along.
 
How in the world would the FAA know if you were alone or not? I don't see a column in my log book for "# of passengers".
 
Thanks for the replies. Glad I’m not the only one left feeling confused over the rule. Since it’s for a commercial license you might think it would make MORE sense to have passengers. That makes things a bit more difficult having to think of their needs as well, and a bit more realistic as to the potential mission of a commercial pilot.
 
lancie00 said:
How in the world would the FAA know if you were alone or not? I don't see a column in my log book for "# of passengers".
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Yea it's a bit of a bummer. I'd like to go to the Sante Fe Fly In with my dad - it would be a good opportunity to do my cross country. But obviously I can't do that.
 
People, just find an airport at least 250 nautical miles from your home airport. Fly to said airport. Find another airport between that airport and your home field. Fly to that airport. Fly home. Done.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
I wounder why SOLO flight? Do they think some will help you?
Click to expand...

You might be surprised to find out that there are many people who are trying to be a commercial pilot that can't make decisions on their own. Requiring an applicant to do a trip like this solo will (hopefully) force the person to be decisive and not rely on an instructor or pilot/passenger to help bail them out all the time.

DesertNomad said:
I still need to do mine. I flew from Reno to Cienfuegos, Cuba but had a passenger (my non-pilot wife) so it doesn't count. Dumb rule.
Click to expand...

It is only a dumb rule to you because you've went above and beyond the minimum requirements to earn a commercial pilot certificate. For many aspiring professional pilots this solo cross country is the farthest they've been away from the traffic pattern and probably the longest flight they've taken by themselves.

No matter how low the bar is set, there are people that will just barely clear it.
 
woodchucker said:
Thanks for the replies. Glad I’m not the only one left feeling confused over the rule. Since it’s for a commercial license you might think it would make MORE sense to have passengers. That makes things a bit more difficult having to think of their needs as well, and a bit more realistic as to the potential mission of a commercial pilot.
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In most cases, you'll have at least a few years of commercial flying under your belt before you're able to get near any kind of job that involves having passengers.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
In most cases, you'll have at least a few years of commercial flying under your belt before you're able to get near any kind of job that involves having passengers.
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Perhaps. But wouldn’t it be time to finally extract some green from your non-pilot free-loading friends?

:D
 
Juliet Hotel said:
In most cases, you'll have at least a few years of commercial flying under your belt before you're able to get near any kind of job that involves having passengers.
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Maybe... maybe not.... I know of one concern around here who is offering lower time CPL's the chance to fly local doctors in a plane the doctors own, aka Part 91. So if you already had the desired time(s) (TT, IFR, Bonanza) and now have a fresh CPL, you might qualify for the job.

But also as you were thinking, there are other passenger carrying opportunities that do require more experience.
 
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