Localizers used in a route clearance

Discussion in 'Change to my Frequency...' started by labbadabba, Oct 18, 2016.

  1. labbadabba

    labbadabba Cleared for Takeoff

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    This was brought up in another post I made:
    https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...ed-myself-the-other-night.98855/#post-2158918

    Basically the question surrounds a strange clearance I got:

    Yucca Valley L22 to LAX

    YUCCA V264 RAVON PDZ PDZ270R V363 LAXLOC24R (LAX Localizer RWY 24R)

    In this clearance the Localizer is being used to define a section of the route. I know that localizers are used from time to time to define an intersection but is this normal in a route clearance? Or is this more specific to very congested airspaces? I've never seen anything like this.

    That intersection of the localizer and the airway is 31 miles from the airport. What is the typical range of a localizer?
     
  2. Somedudeintn

    Somedudeintn Line Up and Wait

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    I've never hear of this in real life.
     
  3. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou En-Route

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    Thanks for posting this, labbadabbadoo.
    I am very curious about the answer. Just because I haven't seen this used before does not mean it is wrong, of course.
    But I'd love to hear from our ATC friends here. This should be interesting.
     
  4. coma24

    coma24 Line Up and Wait

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    Those aren't PilotEdge-specific. They're based on the real world TEC routes. Check the Chart Supplement (TEC route section) for ONT-LAX and ONT-HHR and you'll find:

    PDZ PDZ270R LAX RWY 24R LOC (ONTN4 TEC route)
    PDZ PDZ270R HHR RY25 LOC (ONTN3 TEC route)

    respectively. What you get once you're in the air, I don't know, but that is a flyable non-radar route using radials and the localizer.
     
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  5. Graueradler

    Graueradler Pattern Altitude

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    Not on a clearance but I have used the KFSM - Fort Smith localizer from there to H35 - Clarksville. It is 47 NM. Worked fine at that range.
     
  6. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The LOCs at LAX are flight-checked, as used, well outside the normal operational volume of a LOC. Take a look at how far out they go on the ILS approach plates for LAX.
     
  7. luvflyin

    luvflyin Pattern Altitude

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    It's not common but it is valid. It's not that rare to be told to "join the localizer inbound" when you're on the arrival portion of the flight. In this case you're just getting it in you're initial departure clearance. It's just another route element like an Airway or VOR radial would be. Easily overflown if ya ain't payin attention though. That's a pretty steep cut from V363. Don't treat it as if being vectored to the Localizer where you don't make the turn on your own if ATC forgets about you for a bit and you fly through. You make the turn and join it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  8. luvflyin

    luvflyin Pattern Altitude

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    It's not real life. It's Los Angeles.
     
  9. roncachamp

    roncachamp Final Approach

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    Ignoring the rather circuitous nature of that route, a similar route could be issued with just Victor airways:

    YUCCA.V264.RAVON.V8.PDZ.V186.PIRRO.V210

    Why the PDZ270R and LAXLOC24R are preferred is a mystery to me.

    I assume you mean use of localizers for enroute navigation. I've attached a snippet of enroute chart L-12 from 1970. Ckeck out V217 in the Milwaukee area.



    The normal limit is 18 miles, the KLAX localizers have Expanded Service Volumes.

    L-12 20 Aog 1970.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016