Liability Waiver for Flight Training?

[Erice]

Can/should a flight school ask its students to sign a liability waiver? Would it really offer legal liability protection (except for gross negligence)?

If you were a primary flight student, would you sign one? Or, if you were the parents of a teenager seeking flight training, would you sign?

I've searched through the POA archives, and most of the liability waiver discussions have to do with Young Eagles, or sightseeing flights, etc. But I haven't seen primary training mentioned in this context (or for that matter, advanced flight training).

 

[poadeleted20]

Can/should a flight school ask its students to sign a liability waiver?

Can they? Absolutely -- just takes a typewriter, a copier, and some chutzpah. Should they?

Would it really offer legal liability protection (except for gross negligence)?

That's a question for an attorney familiar with the relevant laws of that state, because the effectiveness of an exculpatory contract like that varies widely among the states. It would also depend on how well crafted the waiver was, and what options/alternatives were offered.

If you were a primary flight student, would you sign one? Or, if you were the parents of a teenager seeking flight training, would you sign?

Not without consultation with my own attorney -- with that form in hand for my attorney to review.

 

[Paulie]

Not new. This is why renters insurance is being offered.
You need to check how much you are going to owe them if you bend a rental.

 

[LDJones]

I think most flight schools have some form of waiver. The general rule of thumb is such waivers are worth the value of the paper they're written upon. That said, it doesn't hurt to have one and may provide some small benefit in some circumstances. But you can't waive your liability if you don't meet the standard of care for whatever you're undertaking to do. Gross negligence (however that might be defined) isn't required.

 

[jordane93]

The flight school I work at has every student fill out and sign a waiver.

 

[James331]

With how litigious folks are, yeah it wouldn't surprise me, and I wouldn't have a issue signing one.

I had one at my old school we would have all disco flights even sign, no one ever had a an issue with it.

Go for a tandem skydive, you won't get withing spitting distance of a plane or rig without signing one.

 

[timwinters]

Not new. This is why renters insurance is being offered.
You need to check how much you are going to owe them if you bend a rental.

That's a completely separate (and unrelated) topic from that the OP asked.

 

[Dr. O]

I will sign almost anything some SFB thinks is going to protect him from the boogyman.

My junkyard dog attorney loves those kinds of battles - signed under duress, failure to disclose, no witness signature, conflict of interest, no notary stamp, not properly recorded, not in the public interest, not in proper legal terms, and on, and on, and on. Says he has never lost one of these squabbles.
Have you noticed when signing some legal documents (done properly) loans/mortgages/leases/government contracts/etc. there are multiple places to sign, and boxes to initial that you have been advised of this and that - and even then said document might not stand up to a determined legal attack.
How can it not? you ask. Well, perhaps it did not spell out that you have x number of days to cancel some provision, or it did it not conform to some obscure ruling by some semi competent judge in an obscure case from a 100 years ago that, notwithstanding his Honor's bourbon habit and backwater court, creates settled case law that is all but forgotten in today's fast paced world.
Myriad reasons a contract might not hold up.

 

[Kristin]

I think most flight schools have some form of waiver. The general rule of thumb is such waivers are worth the value of the paper they're written upon. That said, it doesn't hurt to have one and may provide some small benefit in some circumstances. But you can't waive your liability if you don't meet the standard of care for whatever you're undertaking to do. Gross negligence (however that might be defined) isn't required.

Your statement that failure to meet the standard of care can't be waived is legally incorrect. It is exactly what is being waived by such a waiver. In some jurisdictions, waivers may not be allowed, but I haven't surveyed them all. I would bet that most allow them, with some limitations. If a state has an active skydiving operation then some waivers are likely permitted in that state.

In California, you can't waive gross negligence. Court's do tend to look for ways around enforcing a waiver, but they do get upheld. California will uphold them for sightseeing flights. That has been litigated. I am not aware of any case that ruled on a waiver in flight training. If properly done, it might be upheld.

 

[James331]

There was one a few years back, bi plane ride, which experienced an engine failure.

Passenger/customer thought he hit the gravy train, court found the pilot had complied with all the FARs, plane was airworthy etc, and upheld the waiver.

 

[Kristin]

There was one a few years back, bi plane ride, which experienced an engine failure.

Passenger/customer thought he hit the gravy train, court found the pilot had complied with all the FARs, plane was airworthy etc, and upheld the waiver.

Yup! Booth v. Santa Barbara Bi-planes. Attached for your reading pleasure.

 

[James331]

Yup! Booth v. Santa Barbara Bi-planes. Attached for your reading pleasure.

You're quick!