Lets talk Pipers

Jimmy cooper said:
Why would anyone pay over 700 grand for a 200grand mooney !? no wonder GA is dying!
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Simple. The 200 grand model is fifteen to twenty years old, radios need upgrading, leather seats are worn, no turbo, no AC. The new ones now (U and V) have two doors, factory AC, one is turbo and one is normally aspirated. Both climb like homesick angels, and carry way too much fuel if filled up. And they are under warranty, easier to depreciate for business use and depreciate more for business use (that can be handy sometimes).

My Mooney only cost a tiny fraction of 200K when I bought it 600 tach hours ago . . . I'll probably never own a new plane, or even a late model, used one.
 
Hank S said:
Simple. The 200 grand model is fifteen to twenty years old, radios need upgrading, leather seats are worn, no turbo, no AC. The new ones now (U and V) have two doors, factory AC, one is turbo and one is normally aspirated. Both climb like homesick angels, and carry way too much fuel if filled up. And they are under warranty, easier to depreciate for business use and depreciate more for business use (that can be handy sometimes).

My Mooney only cost a tiny fraction of 200K when I bought it 600 tach hours ago . . . I'll probably never own a new plane, or even a late model, used one.
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Thanks for clearing that up.

I could get an Ovation these days for 200K with A/C

https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/V...l=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=27593701&dealerid=

https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/V...l=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=27593701&dealerid=

I'm drooling over these birds, I will get there. Never flown one but I will get there!
 
I think in those Os, you have to turn the AC off for takeoff and landing. The new Mooneys,mail can runnthenAC all the time. Don't know what's different about the actual equipment or it's power source.
 
I've been looking at the Sundowner c23 180//I know its slower than an archer, but its faster than my Skyhawk. roomier, and beefier... There are some really pretty examples on the market right now... Just knock'n around the idea for now...
 
I know a sundowner owner and parts are $$$$$, just be aware


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Hank S said:
I think in those Os, you have to turn the AC off for takeoff and landing. The new Mooneys,mail can runnthenAC all the time. Don't know what's different about the actual equipment or it's power source.
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That's no biggie, ANY A/C especially in hot and humid Florida will work. I was considering Pipers because, parts are easy to obtain, Lycoming Engine is very reliable and annuals are pretty cheap. I know me and the speed would eventually suck and I would have to upgrade and take a price hit in the process for another airplane. I rather take the hit with ONE airplane then two but I'm not experienced enough to handle a flying dragon yet, (Ovation 2 or Cirrus SR22). I'm going to fly a Cirrus SR22 December 10th to see if I like it. I'm excited for that!

gsengle said:
I know a sundowner owner and parts are $$$$$, just be aware


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Thanks for sharing that, I had no idea. Parts have to be shipped from overseas?
 
FlySince9 said:
I wouldn't be so against the one door concept if there were windows you could open or some other source of significant air-flow in the cabin when on the ground... (other than the practice of holding the door open) Even my Skyhawk gets a bit "warm" in the summer months down here... I would like to bring Pipers and Mooneys into my wish list but that little postage slot of a window seems a bit ridiculous for summer days in North Carolina... :confused:... I'm really comfortable in my Skyhawk, but the few times I flew in Pipers, I really liked the visibility...
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Well you obviously need a....Breezy!

upload_2016-11-30_8-47-28.png

This one even better, 'cause it has boo, uh, girls.

Mike_s_Breezy_Pic.jpg
 
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Parts have to be shipped for a plane no longer in production from Beechcraft. Not a maker of low cost planes. Or other parts you just can't get. Friend had a hell of a time with some engine gauges.

Based on what I'm reading you should be looking at M20Js. 200hp IO360.

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20J Evaluation/M20J_evaluation_report.html

http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/pistons/magic-mooney-201

(Note, Mooney parts availability has been fine lately imho)

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Hank S said:
Simple. The 200 grand model is fifteen to twenty years old, radios need upgrading, leather seats are worn, no turbo, no AC. The new ones now (U and V) have two doors, factory AC, one is turbo and one is normally aspirated. Both climb like homesick angels, and carry way too much fuel if filled up. And they are under warranty, easier to depreciate for business use and depreciate more for business use (that can be handy sometimes).

My Mooney only cost a tiny fraction of 200K when I bought it 600 tach hours ago . . . I'll probably never own a new plane, or even a late model, used one.
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How old is your mooney!? Probably at least old enough to vote. Sure it's simple and very few have 700 grand for a new mooney. 200 grand would possibly be fair for a new one. That's why GA is dying. Simple!
 
So why are similarly priced SR22s selling well? (Not that I'm a fan...)


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Has the OP considered the Socata Tobago or even the Trinidad? Best value for the buck for a 4 place single. Big ass doors, 50" cabin....


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Jimmy cooper said:
How old is your mooney!? Probably at least old enough to vote. Sure it's simple and very few have 700 grand for a new mooney. 200 grand would possibly be fair for a new one. That's why GA is dying. Simple!
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GA will be around long after you and I are gone....so why not enjoy it now while we can? Price is not the ONLY reason why GA is having trouble if that were the case light sports and ultralights would be doing very well.

gsengle said:
So why are similarly priced SR22s selling well? (Not that I'm a fan...)

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Exactly! I think the reason SR22's do well is because there is a whole following at COPA and they do a lot of good work to promote the brand. I hope other GA manufacturers follow suit.

Tampico Trauma said:
Has the OP considered the Socata Tobago or even the Trinidad? Best value for the buck for a 4 place single. Big ass doors, 50" cabin....
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No I haven't considered it, these airplanes are fairly unknown to me. I have never seen one in real life. IMO the more common the plane the better I can find parts, maintenance..etc
 
gsengle said:
Parts have to be shipped for a plane no longer in production from Beechcraft. Not a maker of low cost planes. Or other parts you just can't get. Friend had a hell of a time with some engine gauges.
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It's not Beechcraft that is the problem. It's Textron. I've been a Beech owner for a while and have seen a marked increase in replacement part prices since Textron bought them.

That and some of the Service Bulletins that have been coming out since Textron took over have been downright ridiculous.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Thanks for sharing that, I had no idea. Parts have to be shipped from overseas?
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They aren't in production and there just weren't that many made compared to all the Bonanzas and Barons.

Same problem with the Duchess. Not a bad airplane, but comparatively harder to get parts.
 
There are similar and active Mooney and Bonanza owners groups, both online and otherwise, copa ain't the reason. My guess is that the new tech attracts younger pilots, the roomy cockpit, and well, the chute. And a marketing plan to go with all that. That said, their marketing plan has been criticized as irresponsibly contributing to the high Cirrus accident rate (until commendably cut recently through special training)


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gsengle said:
There are similar and active Mooney and Bonanza owners groups, both online and otherwise, copa ain't the reason. My guess is that the new tech attracts younger pilots, the roomy cockpit, and well, the chute. And a marketing plan to go with all that. That said, their marketing plan has been criticized as irresponsibly contributing to the high Cirrus accident rate (until commendably cut recently through special training)


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Old guy here and I love new tech
 
Jimmy cooper said:
How old is your mooney!? Probably at least old enough to vote. Sure it's simple and very few have 700 grand for a new mooney. 200 grand would possibly be fair for a new one. That's why GA is dying. Simple!
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My Mooneynis middle aged, a couple offenses past voting age. Have you priced a new Cessna 172? The last I saw was above $300K . . . Just a brand new engine is $50K if you don't have one to exchange (as if you bought a new engine to put on a plane you're building / restoring).
 
Ha but I didn't call myself old ;)


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gsengle said:
Ha but I didn't call myself old ;)


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It's all relative, take the nieces and nephews out, (Teens) and they will tell you how old you are. Hang out with some seniors and they will call you young man.
 
I started way late but with 3 year old twins I can't afford to feel old very often :-o

Won't be a grandpa for a long time!


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mscard88 said:
Well you obviously need a....Breezy!

View attachment 49498

This one even better, 'cause it has boo, uh, girls.

Mike_s_Breezy_Pic.jpg
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Are you sure this photo is not a man dressed up like a woman with his accepting wife? I thought I saw this photo somewhere before. Trying to remember!


Fearless Tower said:
They aren't in production and there just weren't that many made compared to all the Bonanzas and Barons.

Same problem with the Duchess. Not a bad airplane, but comparatively harder to get parts.
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That is why EVERYTHING, needs to be looked at thoroughly when buying an airplane. Some people make it sound simple, (Just fork the money over and buy it) but it's not that simple. Cost of ownership and part availability are two major factors that will keep an airplane in the air or like most people....on the ground.



gsengle said:
I started way late but with 3 year old twins I can't afford to feel old very often :-o

Won't be a grandpa for a long time!


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Everybody's timeline is different, you started right on time FOR YOU! enjoy the process and when you do become a grandpa, (It will be faster than you think) don't try to fight the inevitable.
 
FloridaPilot said:
That is why EVERYTHING, needs to be looked at thoroughly when buying an airplane. Some people make it sound simple, (Just fork the money over and buy it) but it's not that simple. Cost of ownership and part availability are two major factors that will keep an airplane in the air or like most people....on the ground.
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No disagreement there. This is where good type clubs are invaluable and worth every penny of the membership fee.
 
mscard88 said:
This one even better, 'cause it has boo, uh, girls.

Mike_s_Breezy_Pic.jpg
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There is something odd about that second photo. I can't think of a single female aviator that I have met who'd fly in those shoes. No way.

I suspect that photo is marketing fodder of some sort.
 
denverpilot said:
There is something odd about that second photo. I can't think of a single female aviator that I have met who'd fly in those shoes. No way.

I suspect that photo is marketing fodder of some sort.
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Well, uh, I wasn't looking at her shoes to tell you the truth...
 
How do you guys like the Comanche? Who has flown it and what do you think?
 
They're all pretty old now, so they are all pretty unique depending on how they've been maintained.


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FloridaPilot said:
DenverPilot is a foot guy....The truth is out!! :eek:
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LOL... nah. I'm old enough and harmless enough that my wife and her friends let me in on the secret of "f me shoes". Long story about how THAT came up one day../

Ask the women in your life about that one at your own peril...
 
denverpilot said:
LOL... nah. I'm old enough and harmless enough that my wife and her friends let me in on the secret of "f me shoes". Long story about how THAT came up one day../

Ask the women in your life about that one at your own peril...
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The red heels? :cool:
 
mscard88 said:
The red heels? :cool:
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Sometimes. It apparently depends on the type of shoe also. Haha. Frankly the "rules" were too complex for me, which probably explains why I don't understand half of our walk in closet being filled with various shoes.

She lets me buy guns and airplanes, I figure the closet full of shoes is no big deal. LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
She lets me buy guns and airplanes, I figure the closet full of shoes is no big deal. LOL.
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Yeh but what kind of shoes? If they're CFM shoes, most of them, you might be in trouble. A flight attendant told me what CFM was, first word is come, you figure out the rest, don't wanna get banned. :D
 
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