Legally Installing Used G5

[NordicDave]

I have an opportunity to buy a used certified G5. I heard Garmin wants $600 fee for paperwork for reinstallation on another aircraft from original.

Anyone have experience with legally installing used certified G5's in certified aircraft on the Garmin AML?

 

[bnt83]

I have an opportunity to buy a used certified G5. I heard Garmin wants $600 fee for paperwork for reinstallation on another aircraft from original.

Anyone have experience with legally installing used certified G5's in certified aircraft on the Garmin AML?

There is no paperwork needed if you are replacing a G5 that was already installed legitimately using the STC, If the used unit has a legitimate Garmin data tag with the FAA/PMA stamps and the part number matches the STC paperwork (Installation Manual / ICA) and the unit passes post-installation software updates and configuration and the ops checks per the STC Instructions for Continued Airworthiness (ICA), you are good to go.

If you are installing a used G5 in an airplane that has never had the STC applied, you need to buy the STC Letter of Authorization (LOA) for the aircraft and then proceed as if it was any other brand-new installation using the STC installation data, recorded on airframe log entry and 337 weight and balance update and equipment list revision, etc. In this case you are actually purchasing a "coupon" that contains a redemption code, when you register the redemption code on the Garmin website you enter the aircraft make/model/registration number/serial number and then print out the LOA that it produces.

Everyone that owns these should be filing the STC LOA in a safe place forever in the permanent airplane logbooks. I staple a photocopy of every LOA to the 337 so it ends up in the FAA aircraft registry, in theory where it will NEVER be lost.

 

[Bell206]

Anyone have experience with legally installing used certified G5's in certified aircraft on the Garmin AML?

FYI: As a side note, if the intent is to use the used G5 to replace a vacuum attitude indicator only or for another purpose which falls under a minor alteration you would not need the Garmin permission letter. The letter only provides permission to use their approved data not the physical install of the indicator.

 

[bnt83]

FYI: As a side note, if the intent is to use the used G5 to replace a vacuum attitude indicator only or for another purpose which falls under a minor alteration you would not need the Garmin permission letter. The letter only provides permission to use their approved data not the physical install of the indicator.

I would agree IF the Garmin G5 held some sort of standalone approval like a TSO for attitude indicator, but they do not.

 

[Bell206]

I would agree IF the Garmin G5 held some sort of standalone approval like a TSO for attitude indicator, but they do not.

On the AI replacement there is a specific FAA policy memo that permits it with no other approvals needed. For minor alterations in general same route as any other non-TSO install as discussed in previous threads..

 

[NordicDave]

I'm having an avionics shop install a G3X with a G5 as the failover back-up device. They have a customer with a pair of G5's looking to keep one as a back-up for a G3X install and sell the other remaining G5. I can get it for $1400. I'm getting conflicting information on whether or not some type of permission is needed from Garmin.

Appreciate everyone help.

 

[mondtster]

I'm having an avionics shop install a G3X with a G5 as the failover back-up device. They have a customer with a pair of G5's looking to keep one as a back-up for a G3X install and sell the other remaining G5. I can get it for $1400. I'm getting conflicting information on whether or not some type of permission is needed from Garmin.

Appreciate everyone help.

The shop can’t help you with getting the installation approved? That seems odd.

When I asked my friend who owns an avionics shop (and is a Garmin dealer) about getting STCs and permission letters for the newer Garmin equipment he said it was no problem. I didn’t ask specifically, but I got the feeling that the dealers had access to the paperwork for little or no cost. What they charge a customer for the paperwork is a different matter however, and likely varies shop to shop and maybe on the size of the job they’re doing.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I'm having an avionics shop install a G3X with a G5 as the failover back-up device. They have a customer with a pair of G5's looking to keep one as a back-up for a G3X install and sell the other remaining G5. I can get it for $1400. I'm getting conflicting information on whether or not some type of permission is needed from Garmin.

Appreciate everyone help.

Assuming they are a Garmin dealer this should be a non issue. Garmin may tried to prevent non dealers from doing this to protect their dealers, that I don’t know. My shop told me they do this all the time.

 

[bnt83]

The shop can’t help you with getting the installation approved? That seems odd.

When I asked my friend who owns an avionics shop (and is a Garmin dealer) about getting STCs and permission letters for the newer Garmin equipment he said it was no problem. I didn’t ask specifically, but I got the feeling that the dealers had access to the paperwork for little or no cost. What they charge a customer for the paperwork is a different matter however, and likely varies shop to shop and maybe on the size of the job they’re doing.

Seems to me like the whole issue is whether or not they need to purchase an LOA for the G5 STC not a matter of is the installation approved or not.

Historically all the LOAs for STCs were published on the Garmin website with very generic wide blanket statement like "If you own the equipment, you can use STC XXXXX to install it"

The G5 over the counter STC kits changed all that and each LOA is specific to the airplane registered through the website. Each G5 STC kit was packaged with an envelope containing a key code and instructions how to down the LOA.

It's all copyright & licensing agreement stuff. Without holding the LOA for the make/model/serial number airplane you install an STC on would be called intellectual property theft. The whole G5 STC package is published online to a public site, not hidden behind the dealer portal.

Can't tell you what the right thing is as the G3X STC is hidden behind the dealer portal.

 

[mondtster]

Seems to me like the whole issue is whether or not they need to purchase an LOA for the G5 STC not a matter of is the installation approved or not.

That's what I interpret the inquiry to be about as well. In my opinion the installing shop should know what to do and be able to generate the necessary paperwork to return the aircraft to service after performing the work. I'd be getting concerned about the knowledge the shop has, if they are tasking the owner with figuring their job out.

The G5 over the counter STC kits changed all that and each LOA is specific to the airplane registered through the website. Each G5 STC kit was packaged with an envelope containing a key code and instructions how to down the LOA.

Which is exactly what and why I was asking my friend about - the items that were sold over the counter. I'm being told that the Garmin dealers can provide an STC and permission letter to install a used G5, GNC355, GI275, etc. into a different aircraft.

Can't tell you what the right thing is as the G3X STC is hidden behind the dealer portal.

I don't think this really has much to do with the G3X, other than what standby instruments are required. To me, the question is whether or not the G5 can be installed and used for the required standby instruments via the policy memo that was referenced earlier in lieu of the STC. My suspicion is that it can't be but I haven't read the requirements. A field approval might be another path.

 

[NordicDave]

As many of you are likely aware from seeing the news, we were hit with monstrous rain and wind event.

My Av shop, who is also a Garmin dealer, is back at work with the worst of the weather moving on. He said that for him to install the used G5 is not an issue.

Really appreciated everyone's thoughtful help.