Legal question about public airport access

midlifeflyer said:
I take it you agree with all the negative news stories about pilots also. We are, after all, all rich kids with their toys who care nothing about anyone or anything else, aren't we?
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Certainly true about boomer pilots.
 
midlifeflyer said:
True. It's sooo much better off to run around half-cocked and ignorant.
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Hey - we're trying! :D Most us nose-pickers don't have 'esq' after our names. I took two -- count-em', two semester of biz law, so that qualifies me to have an unpaid opinion on legal stuff on a web board.

However, I've been in real biz for 40 years, and in that time I learnt a couple of things. Lawyers generally don't pro-bono for civil cases(never?). I pegged the off-the-cuff price at $200k, but will admit now I could be off by a zero either way. :yesnod:
 
Tom-D said:
Normally the FAA will not grant money to a privately owned airport.
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And what did I write? Normally they will not, but there are exceptions, such as grandfathered airports and private relievers with significant numbers of based aircraft.

Near me, Maryland Airport (2w5) is an example of a privately owned airport that just received millions in funding for a new runway. There are many more examples.
 
Brad Z said:
And what did I write? Normally they will not, but there are exceptions, such as grandfathered airports and private relievers with significant numbers of based aircraft.

Near me, Maryland Airport (2w5) is an example of a privately owned airport that just received millions in funding for a new runway. There are many more examples.
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And I know of three within 30 air minutes of my house that were denied. simply because they were private airports.

ORS was denied even tho it is a city owned airport that can't comply with thru the fence operation rules insisted upon by the FAA, due to stipulations in the transfer of title to the city.
As long as the airport in question is a privately owned, and run as a corporation it will get nothing from the FAA but a hard time.
 
Brad Z said:
And what did I write? Normally they will not, but there are exceptions, such as grandfathered airports and private relievers with significant numbers of based aircraft.
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Those are public access airports, that is not what we are talking about. the airport in question is a privately owned airport that is requiring the users to pay for access. the public is locked out except for the customers of the company.

that is not a public use airport. any public entry must be thru the front door of the company. = access is controlled.
 
Tom-D said:
Those are public access airports, that is not what we are talking about. the airport in question is a privately owned airport that is requiring the users to pay for access. the public is locked out except for the customers of the company.

that is not a public use airport. any public entry must be thru the front door of the company. = access is controlled.
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Just because an airport charges for access to the runway through a fee schedule does not mean it is not a public use airport.
 
And there are plenty of publicly owned highways and bridges that charge people for using them.
 
Have you tried contacting the AOPA? They have a whole department that deals with these sort of issues. If you are not a member, perhaps one of the other impacted landowners is.
 
docmirror said:
Hey - we're trying! :D Most us nose-pickers don't have 'esq' after our names. I took two -- count-em', two semester of biz law, so that qualifies me to have an unpaid opinion on legal stuff on a web board.

However, I've been in real biz for 40 years, and in that time I learnt a couple of things. Lawyers generally don't pro-bono for civil cases(never?). I pegged the off-the-cuff price at $200k, but will admit now I could be off by a zero either way. :yesnod:
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Could be off by as much as two zeros. My old firm regularly did exploratory research and an opinion on the viability and risks of further action for civil clients to take away the "ignorant" part. I have found the "half-cocked" part to be more far more often about the client than the lawyer. :yes:

Property disputes can be the worst of these, with access issues the worst. Decades ago, two factions were battling about lake access in a development. The opposing lawyer and I cobbled out what we thought was a terrific settlement very early on in the case and strongly recommended it to our clients. Both rejected it out of hand. So off we went. Time, expenses, expert witnesses, a trip with the judge to visit the site, a few days of trial. Ultimately a decision that looked just like the settlement we recommended.:redface:

Lawyers generally don't pro-bono for civil cases(never?)
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Yeah. We do. Working on one right now.
 
Palmpilot said:
And there are plenty of publicly owned highways and bridges that charge people for using them.
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Have you seen a highway or bridge that was privately owned?
 
Brad Z said:
Just because an airport charges for access to the runway through a fee schedule does not mean it is not a public use airport.
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Landing fees are quite common, but the point was, Privately owned airports can do as they damn well please.

What was free in the past doesn't mean it must be free in the future.
 
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Tom-D said:
Landing fees are quite common, but the point was, Privately owned airports can do as they damn well please.

What was free in the past doesn't mean it must be free in the future.
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Not necessarily - the argument could be made that access to the airport was an obligation on the new owner which came with the sale. They knew about it when they took on the airport and they could have a requirement to continue to accommodate the existing businesses.

Is there any option to expand the airport fencing to the area around the businesses? To bring them in/on the fence?

So just a crazy question - other than qualifying for future money, what advantage does the fence provide?
 
bflynn said:
Not necessarily - the argument could be made that access to the airport was an obligation on the new owner which came with the sale. They knew about it when they took on the airport and they could have a requirement to continue to accommodate the existing businesses.

Is there any option to expand the airport fencing to the area around the businesses? To bring them in/on the fence?

So just a crazy question - other than qualifying for future money, what advantage does the fence provide?
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Re-read post 75, see what I said.
 
Tom-D said:
Same relevance as the public roads and bridges. to a privately owned airport.
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The relevance of toll roads and bridges is that the OP seems to have a problem with people charging for the use of public use airports. It seems to me that if it's OK to charge for public use roads and bridges, it should be OK to charge for public use airports, regardless of whether they're publicly or privately owned. As always, "your mileage may vary."
 
Duster1 said:
I have a legal question about access to a public use airport.

This is a small airport where several businesses and private individuals base their aircraft on private lots adjacent to the airport. The owners of the airport have decided to comply with the FAA NPIAS program (I assume to gain federal funding for future upgrades) and are putting fencing up around the perimeter of the airport. They are putting fencing up across the property lines of adjacent private property that previously had access to the taxiway/runway. There is nothing in the deeds of the properties that guarantees runway access but the properties have had runway access for the last decade since the airport was built.

The airport is installing large sliding gates and selling "clickers" that open the gates for a monthly fee to locals. They are not installing man gates where previous access by individuals was common.

What are the legalities of allowing access to public-use airports? Do the owners of the airport have the right to get federal funding for a public-use airport but put up a fence and charge to access the gate?

Thanks.
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Few people appreciate the value of private aviation to the defense of our nation. Most of the people I know drive their privately owned vehicles from their privately owned land onto publicly owned roads every day. But the idea of practicing the same concept with aircraft is abhorrent to them. Not only should public airports be accessible from private property, the owners of the aircraft, hangared at this private property, should be appreciated for maintaining their aircraft.
 
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