LED position light

brien23

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Brien
Am I missing something it's a LED light bulb and I have to have some FISDO guy give me a 337 with pre approval before I can replace a light bulb on my Piper? Has this subject been beat to death in another thread or do we need to rehash it again.
 
there must be a bright spot in this thread.....
 
Am I missing something it's a LED light bulb and I have to have some FISDO guy give me a 337 with pre approval before I can replace a light bulb on my Piper? Has this subject been beat to death in another thread or do we need to rehash it again.
That’d be like deja vu all over again
 
If the bulb in question is a ‘direct replacement’, that’s good enough for many.
 
The ones I found on ACS replaces your old GE2057 bulbs without modification. But, the bottom of the page has the note "Not PMA'd". You can buy some from Whelen that are TSO'd. But, they cost a bunch more of course!
 
Let’s rehash it, cuz I’m bored silly waiting for the first accident investigation report to identify unapproved LED bulbs as a root or contributing cause to an accident. :D
 
Am I missing something it's a LED light bulb and I have to have some FISDO guy give me a 337 with pre approval before I can replace a light bulb on my Piper? Has this subject been beat to death in another thread or do we need to rehash it again.

Here's a thread on it, links to a few articles

Many people view it as plug and play, if you want to play/pay the 337 game for a bulb that's ofcourse your choice to make.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/cheap-led-landing-taxi-lights.107577/#post-2423908
 
The ones I found on ACS replaces your old GE2057 bulbs without modification. But, the bottom of the page has the note "Not PMA'd". You can buy some from Whelen that are TSO'd. But, they cost a bunch more of course!

Don't think the zillions of old GE bulbs had a TSO...
 
It has been a few months that this issue has been rehashed.


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I don't think so either. But, it was specified by the PMA manufacturer of the original assembly.

It didn't say a GE model XYZ PAR36, just said PAR36, or a 4509.

IMG_1681.jpg
 
Position lights have very specific requirements for them in the regs. When Cessna or Piper originally certified their planes, they also certified that the nav lights met the regs. Start using different lamps and lenses, unless the installation was tested again, you don't know if they actually do meet the standard. Taxi and landing lights and interior lights do not have to meet the same stringent regs.

Looks like Whelen has tested theirs and are certifying them as PMA at some point. I know the whole LED nav light thing is a contentious issue and can get confusing trying to meet the regs and standards. In the end, red on the left, green on the right, white on the back.
 
11-07744.jpg


+

11-09299s.jpg


= :)

PMA, PMSmayed. :rolleyes:

They're brighter than the ones that rolled off the assembly line, they draw less amps and they last 5,000 times as long. Flame on!!
 
I put the PSA Enterprises LED bulbs in my airplane with the new clear covers. Worked great. It comes with a sticker logbook entry. I'm not too worried about it. I have much greater things to worry about in life.
 
I put the PSA Enterprises LED bulbs in my airplane with the new clear covers. Worked great. It comes with a sticker logbook entry. I'm not too worried about. I have much greater things to worry about in life.
I did that too, but was a little bummed with how dim they were. They were probably only equal to incandescent lights, even with the clear covers. I kept the PSA in my tail, but switched to Whelen Chroma LED bulbs for the wings and they've got to be atleast 10x brighter. 3x the price, but that's worth it to me since I don't have strobes.
 
I did that too, but was a little bummed with how dim they were. They were probably only equal to incandescent lights, even with the clear covers. I kept the PSA in my tail, but switched to Whelen Chroma LED bulbs for the wings and they've got to be atleast 10x brighter. 3x the price, but that's worth it to me since I don't have strobes.

Hmm...I mean at night they were MUCH brighter than my original incandescent. In fact, the incandescent were kind of a joke. Oh and you have to get the paddle version. The paddle version is much brighter than the round honeycomb looking version. I would have loved Whelen, but couldn't justify the cost.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/ledreplacement11-12241-4.php?recfer=17184

We do have a belly strobe right now that we will likely remove and put a Whelen beacon/strobe all in one on the tail.
 
Oh and you have to get the paddle version. The paddle version is much brighter than the round honeycomb looking version.
Ahhh that was the problem. I got the "pinecone" version. But the paddle one isn't that much cheaper than the Whelen Chromas, but they are pretty much a brand new design to the market.
 
Ahhh that was the problem. I got the "pinecone" version. But the paddle one isn't that much cheaper than the Whelen Chromas, but they are pretty much a brand new design to the market.

I can't remember the original incandescent PN for my Cherokee, but I wonder if those Whelens are direct replacement. They look a bit different...
 
I can't remember the original incandescent PN for my Cherokee, but I wonder if those Whelens are direct replacement. They look a bit different...
They were a direct replacement for me! I have the PSA clear lenses and they fit great. No modification to my nav fixture.
 
...

We do have a belly strobe right now that we will likely remove and put a Whelen beacon/strobe all in one on the tail.

A tip from your uncle Tim...when you test that thing wear sunglasses. I had to change mine because I installed a new Garmin audio panel and the old beacon caused noise. I installed the 90520.

11-07615s.jpg
 
I started my illegal LED install with the left wing. I no sooner got the bulb in when the wing fell off. I put the wing back on and installed a legal LED. The wing stayed on. :eek:
 
A tip from your uncle Tim...when you test that thing wear sunglasses. I had to change mine because I installed a new Garmin audio panel and the old beacon caused noise. I installed the 90520.

11-07615s.jpg

Haha! That’s the one I’m looking at. Yea our beacon causes noise...always has...just kind of deal with it for now. Would be nice to put that one in though.
 
I didn't even notice my old one was causing noise until after I changed out the audio panel from the Narco...something to the Garmin 340. At night, that new beacon is annoying. I can see the shadow of my antennas on the back of my prop, it is super bright. So that alone makes me comfortable that my LED position lights although more bright than factory, don't need to rival the sun.
 
I went with this one (Whelen 71055):
71055.jpg

So bright! I just wish they made it a bit lower profile, but its still no bigger than the original beacon.
 
Let me guess, you paid a lot of money for a "aviation" PAR 36
Title of thread was position lights. I was talking about the bayonet style GE bulbs that have been used in position lights forever vs the LED replacement bulbs that PSA sells on Aircraft Spruce. Don't know when the topic got to landing lights.
 
Title of thread was position lights. I was talking about the bayonet style GE bulbs that have been used in position lights forever vs the LED replacement bulbs that PSA sells on Aircraft Spruce. Don't know when the topic got to landing lights.
That's pretty mild for thread drift around here ;)
 
Position lights have very specific requirements for them in the regs...
FYI: Position lights and anti-collision lights are the only lights required by regulation for private aircraft. But only the anti-collision light has a minimum performance requirement. Changing the entire light assembly can be a minor or major alteration depending on installation. Changing just a bulb can fall under "standard parts" unless it is an anti-collision bulb which requires a minimum lumen output.
 
91 is an operations section. And the link seems to start in the middle.

I don't get it.

North of the 49th, the following would apply. Look familiar?

523.1391 Minimum Intensities in the Horizontal Plane of Position Lights
Each position light intensity must equal or exceed the applicable values in Table below.

Dihedral angle
(light included)
Angle from right or left of longitudinal axis, measured from dead ahead Intensity (candles)
[L and R (red and green)]
0° to 10° 40
10° to 20° 30
20° to 110 5
A (rear white) 110° to 180° 20
(Change 523-4 (96-09-01))
 
91 is an operations section.
Not exactly. Part 91 is General Operating and Flight Rules for all aircraft. 91 sets basic aircraft requirements, equipment requirements, maintenance/inspection requirements, flight rules, etc. and places that responsibility on the owner/operator. Part 23 is Airworthiness Standards for the certification of airplanes. Once an aircraft is certified Part 23 rarely comes into play as the defining rules are Part 21, 43, and 91--which are the rules stated on the aircraft Airworthiness Certificate.

And the link seems to start in the middle.
No. That is what is left of Part 23 after it was rewritten several years ago. In an effort to stimulate production of small airplanes, the Feds streamlined the regulatory burden and moved a number of airworthiness standards from a regulation level down to the "acceptable data" level. The type design/type certificate approval process is still the same but now provides flexibility in meeting those requirements. In this position light example it is no longer a specific regulation requiring a "dihedral angle" but allows to the designer to submit a position light system that indicates the position and direction of the aircraft in flight.

North of the 49th, the following would apply. Look familiar?
I didn't know Transport Canada also copied the FARs. I thought they had used the BCARs.
 
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