Learned something new from my flight physical(update)

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falconkidding

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Falcon Kidding
That I'm actually mildly green colorblind. I passed all my FAA medical stuff no problem and all the vision stuff at military entrance processing no issue. For the Air force flight physical they require some computer based cone color test and my red is 100 blue is 100 and green is 70 (75 is passing)

Unfortunately it sounds like a waiver won't be granted both docs I talked to said they would automatically submit one but they highly doubt its something the big docs will accept. So needless to say I'm pretty frustrated I've spent 2 years this May applying chasing down reserve and guard contacts getting my ppl going to multiple medical screenings, interviews, running into a wall on pilot slots and eventually getting selected for drones(rpa pilot), putting my career on hold while pursuing that, taking the oath of enlistment in Oct and then literally being one shade of green away is just ugghhh makes me sick.

All the more frustrating cause its something that I never had any indication of cause I pass any kind of color test given in my life except that CCT I took at the flight physical. maybe I don't understand being partially green colorblind but i've taken a few online test no problem and just messed around in photoshop with the whole green spectrum and dont see any issue.

I don't believe they can offer me any other job cause I believe the rated officer positions all have the same requirements so I guess now my options are to try for a WOFT position in the army which I'd be okay with if I could get fixed wing but then it means more interviews more letters of recommendation more exams, more medical stuff and the chance to get stuck in helicopters(would probably enjoy apache or blackhawk but anything else eh) Also would have to go though enlisted basic then WOCS then into flight training
Or I'm sitting at 200ish flight hours I could spend the idk 15k getting IR Com and CFI then trying airlines downside is more money spent and then not making jack for 3-4 years.

Anyways thats pretty rambling but thats just the way my minds been for the past day or so just felt like venting.:dunno:
 
Try this one

http://www.color-blindness.com/2009/03/10/online-farnsworth-d-15-dichotomous-color-blindness-test/

Lots of the quick and easy, standard issue color vision tests are a little lacking and err on the side of failure in favor of processing people quickly and easily.

Consider this, if you do get your CPL on your own, it's a good time to be a pilot, I started as a CFI making around 30k a year with free housing, not hard to put hours on and the airlines are hungry for anyone with 1500.
 
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Crap man, sorry to hear that. Not sure if the Army class 1 is much different though. http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/armedfly/blvision.htm

You'll have to do two as well. One for the board and then another at Rucker before starting flight school.

I'd say now is the best to to apply ever if you looking to go FW. They take from flight school now and not experienced CWs from boards like they used to. Just saw last months selection from flight school and out of 14 students, 5 C-12 slots were available. You'd definitely have a good shot, especially if you're high in the class.
 
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It seems like the standard answer to medical questions from this Board is to contact Dr. Bruce Chien either on the AOPA Board or at www.aeromedical.doc.

Dr. Bruce is slightly colorblind (if memory serves) and was a pilot in P3 Orions. So he is very likely to have helpful advice.

If Dr Bruce can't get you passed then yes it is a bummer. But he would be my first call in your situation.

-Skip
 
James331 said:
Try this one

http://www.color-blindness.com/2009/03/10/online-farnsworth-d-15-dichotomous-color-blindness-test/

Lots of the quick and easy, standard issue color vision tests are a little lacking and err on the side of failure in favor of processing people quickly and easily.
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Just did that one fine. I mean I guess I am mild green color blind cause of the 10 or so shades of green they on the CCT I could barely see 1 and couldn't see the last 2 (just looked like a white screen) just kind of frustrating to not be able to find any "real life" issue where it has ever appeared.
 
Skip Miller said:
It seems like the standard answer to medical questions from this Board is to contact Dr. Bruce Chien either on the AOPA Board or at www.aeromedical.doc.

Dr. Bruce is slightly colorblind (if memory serves) and was a pilot in P3 Orions. So he is very likely to have helpful advice.

If Dr Bruce can't get you passed then yes it is a bummer. But he would be my first call in your situation.

-Skip
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Pre 2011 I could pass no problem cause I can do any of the old test its just this new one is a lot more sensitive (they told me anyways) If I was already in as a rated officer a waiver would be likely be granted but being only a officer candidate they pretty much said lol nope. I don't believe there is any kind of appeals or alternative method(if you are in ROTC you can file for an exception to policy but I'm just a civilian off the street). They just sent my results with waiver request to the head honchos where it will 99.9% come back denied and i'll just be replaced with the next candidate.
 
Velocity173 said:
Crap man, sorry to hear that. Not sure if the Army class 1 is much different though. http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/armedfly/blvision.htm

You'll have to do two as well. One for the board and then another at Rucker before starting flight school.

I'd say now is the best to to apply ever if you looking to go FW. They take from flight school now and not experienced CWs from boards like they used to. Just saw last months selection from flight school and out of 14 students, 5 C-12 slots were available. You'd definitely have a good shot, especially if you're high in the class.
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It seems they do the Falant and the PIP which I can do the PIP in my sleep and the falant I believe I can do from the examples i've seen. I wonder how hard it is to get in now with downsizing. I have an interview with an investigator at the AF recruiting office tomorrow for the top secret clearance(kinda redundant since i'm essentially a no go lol)I guess I'll walk into the army place after and see what info they have for me.
 
falconkidding said:
It seems they do the Falant and the PIP which I can do the PIP in my sleep and the falant I believe I can do from the examples i've seen. I wonder how hard it is to get in now with downsizing. I have an interview with an investigator at the AF recruiting office tomorrow for the top secret clearance(kinda redundant since i'm essentially a no go lol)I guess I'll walk into the army place after and see what info they have for me.
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Last civilian board in January, 20 out of 23 applicants accepted. It goes in waves. One board might be 30 %, the next might be 90 %.
 
I'd go thru with that top secret as well. Might need for future jobs and if you do go WOFT, it'll streamline the process. Heard of a lot of hold ups with civilians trying to get their security clearance. I was an interservice transfer and already had an interim secret so there weren't any issues.
 
falconkidding said:
Pre 2011 I could pass no problem cause I can do any of the old test its just this new one is a lot more sensitive (they told me anyways) If I was already in as a rated officer a waiver would be likely be granted but being only a officer candidate they pretty much said lol nope. I don't believe there is any kind of appeals or alternative method(if you are in ROTC you can file for an exception to policy but I'm just a civilian off the street). They just sent my results with waiver request to the head honchos where it will 99.9% come back denied and i'll just be replaced with the next candidate.
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The choice is yours. a) Give up without full knowledge of the situation, or b) Talk with an acknowledged expert who will tell you exactly what the situation is....

-Skip
 
30 years ago, I was a Navy helo crew chief and a private pilot with about 200hrs. As an enlisted aircrewman I'd passed every flight physical no problems. Eye sight 20/20, color vision no problems.

I applied for the Navy LDO aviator program and decided to get the required flight physical done the same time as my regular aircrew flight physical. For the first time ever, I had less than 20/20 distant vision. At the time there no waivers for vision. So, I blew it off; didn't pursue the pilot thing at all. At the time, I thought I would be content as a private pilot, doing other stuff for a living.

If I had it to do over, I'd go fly freight as 2nd officer on a whistling ***** can if thats what it took. My advice: if that's your dream, go do it! Life's too short!
 
If it makes you feel any better (and it won't) I have been declared to be not color blind, then color blind, and then not color blind on subsequent tests 2 years apart.

The testing can be subjective. For example, I have no problem with the books when viewed in natural light, but have had some difficulty (especially with older, faded books) in fluorescent lighting.

Some AMEs will let you view the book in sunlight, while others will simply say "Nope" and fail you. Reason #1,231 to get rid of the 3rd class medical, but I digress...

As was your experience, I never had the slightest indication that I was color blind before taking the 3rd class physical. I have no problem discerning colors.
 
Jay Honeck said:
If it makes you feel any better (and it won't) I have been declared to be not color blind, then color blind, and then not color blind on subsequent tests 2 years apart.

The testing can be subjective. For example, I have no problem with the books when viewed in natural light, but have had some difficulty (especially with older, faded books) in fluorescent lighting.

Some AMEs will let you view the book in sunlight, while others will simply say "Nope" and fail you. Reason #1,231 to get rid of the 3rd class medical, but I digress...

As was your experience, I never had the slightest indication that I was color blind before taking the 3rd class physical. I have no problem discerning colors.
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Or just don't require color vision testing at every medical, not many people become color blind.


And get rid of the 3rd class medical, or maybe make it optional for the folks looking to fly outside the US.
 
Any update with the eye waiver?
 
Velocity173 said:
Any update with the eye waiver?
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Nothing yet. None of the other guys who went up to wright patterson with me have heard back either. I figure they'll hear back on their physical stuff first before I will. Its been exactly one month so no longer than another 30 days before I'm supposed to hear back at the latest. I'm kind of hoping they might come back with the offer of Air battle manager since that only requires a class 3 physical but I doubt they will. I've kind of lucked out though and have a family member who will pay for my instrument and commercial rating ( I have 210 hours atm) and I'll just pay back 10% of takehome pay when/if I get my first flying job be it cfi or some low time commercial job. Which seems fair to me a no interest loan with a variable payment based on what I make.

So things will eventually will fall into place. I went back and forth hardcore over applying as a woft candidate but just don't want to risk getting a helicopter and the offer from family to put me through the rest of my training kind of leads me to a point where I'm happy with civil aviation if the AF doesn't work out.

If they waiver me for RPA's I'll get training in an emerging field of aviation. My IR Multi Com CFI paid for, and buy a dirtbike to play around at cannon holloman or creech. ABM same deal paid training might get to be stationed in alaska Kadena or germany. Or I hear back a negative on that and start my IR/commercial training and 2 months later hopefully be applying to be a CFI or some other time building job.

I'm kind of hoping the AF waivers cause just being in an environment for 2 days where everyone was young and sharp (me with my 3.4 gpa in econ and a PPl was the least qualified) was so nice. I've never even met a pilot below 40 and to be in a roomful of guys with so many shared experiences and similar expectations was eye opening.

Anyways thats a long rambling response to a yes or no question but TL/DR version haven't heard back, expecting no good news on the AF front, but have a path to civilian flying.
 
How often do we have incidents/accidents with a verified cause of deuteranomaly?
Should probably get the ADA to make the FAA kill this stupid test.
 
So finally heard back from the airforce I am disqualified for rated officer positions(and space operations), they offered my the chance to go in non rated (typically hard to get as a civilian) my recruiter is trying to figure out what jobs i can do/pick from and how that all works cause he said this has never happened. I'd say I'm not eligible for a lot cause they require technical degrees or specific degrees ie medical or accounting. Heres a list of what I'm qualified on paper for (who knows if they are hiring for those jobs atm)
14N1 Intelligence
21A1 Aircraft Maintenance
21M1 Munitions & Missile Maintenance
21R1 Logistics Readiness
31P1 Security Forces
Special Investigations
35P1 Public Affairs
38P1 Personnel
Nuclear and Missile Operations
Air Field Operations
Theres a few other where I tentatively meet the requirements
Didn't expect them to offer a non rated opportunity so kind of threw a wrench in my plans of (get declined from rated then go finish up my commercial pilot training)
Guess I'll have to see what they can offer me before I decline it.
 
This bites.

I know an ATP who is color-blind, but I have never but never observed an issue with his sight in relation to his flying.
 
That sucks, there's not much we can do about the health cards we're dealt. My brother was accepted to NASA weeks after being diagnosed as diabetic. He was an Air Force test pilot and ended his military career in the Pentagon and then at Wright Patt. I'd look at how any of those jobs translate to a civilian career. Airfield Operations and Aircraft Maintenance keeps you in aviation. Get your A&P while being a Maintenance Officer and set yourself up for a decent civilian career.
 
I'm severely colorblind and it has in no way affected my flying. I've never understood the need for color vision testing for pilots, except maybe to weed out all but the most perfect candidates in the military.
 
For NDT, we're required to pass vision testing, including color test. We had a guy that failed the color test but was granted due to an alternate means of testing.
 
colojo said:
I'm severely colorblind and it has in no way affected my flying. I've never understood the need for color vision testing for pilots, except maybe to weed out all but the most perfect candidates in the military.
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I always assumed it was for the light gun signal from the tower when comms fail
 
This thread flashed me back to 1980 when I wanted nothing more than to attend the Air Force Academy and fly F-15s. The dream was strong right up until failing my physical due to color vision deficiency. I was not qualified for pilot or bombardier/navigator...despite being a private pilot...but could still attend and become a NFO in the USAF. I had already secured a nomination and academic qualification to both USAFA and USMA. I quickly determined if I was relegated to being a ground pounder, I was NOT going into the USAF and be a non-flying officer and be a second class citizen. I closed the books on the Air Force Academy and accepted my fate as a ground pounder and went to USMA instead. Ironically, four years later, I was temporarily assigned as an Aerial Observer in OH-58s in the Field Artillery. It was short lived before they killed the program.

Several years later, when I was an active duty Major living in San Antonio, I was the token Army guy in my neighborhood with three USAF pilots (two active IPs at Randolph and one SWA Capt/USAFR) in our cul-de-sac. All were about the same age/year group as me. They all said had I gone to USAFA as planned, I would likely have gotten a waiver as in 1985 the AF was granting waivers for almost anything, especially for academy grads. Oh well. Live and learn.

I pursued Army flight school for a short period and it was looking like I might get a waiver for color vision based upon demonstated ability, but that eventually fell through. Probably wouldn't have mattered anyway as the Artillery was short and likely wouldn't have released me anyway. I spent a few years flying airshows in a warbird museum and gave up my dream of flying for a living. I'd grown up in flying family with a ag operation before dad retired and closed up before I could choose that route. I ended up being medically retired as a Lieutenant Colonel due to training injury and went to work in the civilian world. Fortunately, it pays the bills well enough to allow me to fly for fun and own my own planes.

Good luck with your career, whatever it may be. The Army was very good to me, especially after getting hurt. They kept me on active duty for over two years while patching my back up...at full pay and allowances. Retired me with a nice pension with concurrent receipt (pension and disability). Life doesn't end just because you don't get to fly professionally.

JR
 
Velocity173 said:
Light gun, airfield beacon, position lights, etc.
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lol, the beacons and many light guns are so worn even 100% color folks screw up what color they are sometimes, I've asked my girlfriend, who can name every shade of every color on earth, what color the beacon is, white and.. well I forgot the color she said, but she said it was NOT green.

Maybe one day we could switch these things to LED or something, the 1930s tech isn't that great for proper color representation.

I can make out every color on the chart, I've done a few proper color tests, but sometimes I'll got to a new airport and need to take a double take on the beacon, some places have super washed out filters or whatever, same with some approach lights, some places they are clear and crisp, other places have some really half arse stuff.


falconkidding said:
Just did that one fine. I mean I guess I am mild green color blind cause of the 10 or so shades of green they on the CCT I could barely see 1 and couldn't see the last 2 (just looked like a white screen) just kind of frustrating to not be able to find any "real life" issue where it has ever appeared.
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Well atleast you know in the real world you're not color blind.
 
Funny thing is, I can see all the lights just fine, and I passed the light gun test to get my SODA for color vision. It's reflected light that gives me trouble.
 
Velocity173 said:
Don't forget star parachutes (flares).;)
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I was artillery. We didn't have colored illumination rounds...just big bright white ones. And two varieties of white smoke. HC smoke and Willy Pete! Funny, no one cared about my poor color vision as a ground pounder, although many of the same needs existed regarding seeing colors. I only had to pass a "vivid red, vivid green" color test for airborne school...as if anyone paid attention to the light signals. Only the JM gave the "go" command. :D
 
N3368K said:
I was artillery. We didn't have colored illumination rounds...just big bright white ones. And two varieties of white smoke. HC smoke and Willy Pete! Funny, no one cared about my poor color vision as a ground pounder, although many of the same needs existed regarding seeing colors. I only had to pass a "vivid red, vivid green" color test for airborne school...as if anyone paid attention to the light signals. Only the JM gave the "go" command. :D
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Yeah, I can count on one hand the number of signal flares I've actually seen used. Even colored smoke these days is a rariety.
 
N3368K said:
I quickly determined if I was relegated to being a ground pounder, I was NOT going into the USAF and be a non-flying officer and be a second class citizen. I closed the books on the Air Force Academy and accepted my fate as a ground pounder and went to USMA instead. JR
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Sorry, but that gave me a WTF moment...
 
Check with your recruiter,and see if you can qualify for a loadmaster position.
 
frfly172 said:
Check with your recruiter,and see if you can qualify for a loadmaster position.
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Actually the enlisted flight route might be the best option for the OP. I know he's looking at officer positions but there are a lot of enlisted flying slots available as well. Not sure if color blindness would be a disqualifier for all of them but worth looking into. GI Bill will pay for flight school.

Flew the boom once. Sure would beat sitting behind a desk.image.jpeg
 
GlennAB1 said:
There's no way I'd be enlisted if I qualified to be an officer.
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Depends on what they offer as an MOS. plenty of enlisted jobs I'd take over an officer slot. Especially if the OP is hoping to get into aviation minus the pilot wings.

Take ATC for example. The officers are in an admin role. They sit behind a desk as a facility officer while the enlisted do the controlling. Even the tactical ATC side in the AF, the majority of them are enlisted.

Just not about rank and pay. Personally I find QOL more important.
 
Velocity173 said:
Depends on what they offer as an MOS. plenty of enlisted jobs I'd take over an officer slot. Especially if the OP is hoping to get into aviation minus the pilot wings.

Take ATC for example. The officers are in an admin role. They sit behind a desk as a facility officer while the enlisted do the controlling. Even the tactical ATC side in the AF, the majority of them are enlisted.

Just not about rank and pay. Personally I find QOL more important.
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Rank and pay definitely figures into QOL. I had wanted ATC when I enlisted in the AF. I failed the depth perception portion of the vision test, and then was coursed into Avionics Instrumentation Systems. Glad for that now. I pass the depth perception portion of my annual eye test for QC/NDT
 
GlennAB1 said:
Rank and pay definitely figures into QOL. I had wanted ATC when I enlisted in the AF. I failed the depth perception portion of the vision test, and then was coursed into Avionics Instrumentation Systems. Glad for that now.
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No doubt rank and pay help but if wont matter if you get stuck in an MOS you can't stand.

I just want the OP to look at this decision from all angles so he doesn't get stuck in a contract he'll later want out of. Serving is important but getting in an MOS he'll not only enjoy but can be used on the civilian side is just as important.

That tanker flight pic above for example. One of the pilots came back and chatted for a bit. Young Capt and was getting out soon. Said he didn't he didn't care for the job and thought it was boring. Didn't have the slightest interest in flying civilian when he got out either. Got himself in a job where rank and money were good but the job didn't provide him QOL he wanted.
 
Velocity173 said:
I just want the OP to look at this decision from all angles so he doesn't get stuck in a contract he'll later want out of. Serving is important but getting in an MOS he'll not only enjoy but can be used on the civilian side is just as important.
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You think being a tanker boom operator in the service provides some useful skill that can be used in civilian life?
 
GlennAB1 said:
You think being a tanker boom operator in the service provides some useful skill that can be used in civilian life?
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No, that's just a cool job. Do it til you retire then it really doesn't matter after that.

I'm referring to more of the initial contract. Unless the OP actually has AF retirement plans, do something that after the initial contract that can be used on the outside.
 
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