Leaky airplane can't stay in community hangar?

JHW said:
It just seems like common courtesy to me. I meant what I said, if we share a hangar and I notice your airplane is leaking fuel, first I'm going to see if there is something obvious I can do to stop the leak and next step I'm going to tow it outside. I'd expect my neighbors to do the same for me if my plane was leaking.
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It is a good thing you are not at this airport. The management would have a coronary if you even thought about moving your own plane in this hangar. Small insignificant leaks like this, especially on kerosene burners are often deferred to the next regular inspection when it is only a month or two until the next inspection. Aircraft are flown all the time with small leaks like this. This particular airplane has seven interconnected tanks on each side not counting the tip tanks. I am surprised it does not leak more than it does. Of course it needs to be fixed, and I happen to know this plane, pilot, and the maintenance facility that will fix it. Never a question of will it be fixed. It is the ridiculous panic that is absurd. A large leak of course. Kerosene will make a slippery mess. A few drops an hour, easily contained. Y'all would be in a mess if you had to share a hangar with a war bird.:rolleyes:

Frankly I am quite amazed at the remarks made on POA. Private pilots operating small piston engine aircraft I understand. You are simply parroting things somebody has at sometime told you. Perhaps a young instructor with little real world experience in operating and maintaining turbine aircraft. Might have been some airport manager like this one that has no clue. Either way "much to do about nothing".

I am sorry the OP was subjected to such BS.
 
rolivi said:
And with no MX on field, how soon will (or was) this situation corrected?
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It hasn't been yet. It will be, ASAP.

No one is living with the leak. MX was called 10 minutes after I put my own eyes on the leak. It's apparently a common item that can't sometimes easily be fixed, sometimes it cannot.

It's a suspected O-ring beneath a fuel quantity transducer.
 
ronnieh said:
Frankly I am quite amazed at the remarks made on POA. Private pilots operating small piston engine aircraft I understand. You are simply parroting things somebody has at sometime told you. Perhaps a young instructor with little real world experience in operating and maintaining turbine aircraft. Might have been some airport manager like this one that has no clue. Either way "much to do about nothing".



I am sorry the OP was subjected to such BS.
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Ah, the Internet is a strange beast. ;)
 
I suspect most of the posters here, including me are rather inclined to consider someone keeping a plane in a comm hangar while leaking fuel, and not understanding why this is a bad idea would be considered obtuse.

Sort of like; 'Well if one in the chamber is ok for Russian Roulette, then why is five in the chambers not 5 times better?'
 
docmirror said:
I suspect most of the posters here, including me are rather inclined to consider someone keeping a plane in a comm hangar while leaking fuel, and not understanding why this is a bad idea would be considered obtuse.



Sort of like; 'Well if one in the chamber is ok for Russian Roulette, then why is five in the chambers not 5 times better?'
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The aircraft is now happily living in a t-hangar, I had no issues with the plane being removed. I've just seen aircraft with drips of fuel here and there in hangars all over this country. Spent much time around any warbirds? I was curious as to what made this special.

We're talking drip............ drip.......... drip..... We are not talking a running flow of Jet-A inches deep all over the hangar floor. Either way, I get it. I'm an idiot, you guys are much more intelligent than I. ;)

It's pretty easy to express the reasoning behind this without being a total douche, but it takes thought to express these comments in such a manner, thus making it easier to be a douche and thus, that's what often happens on the Internet.

I'd bet my last pay check half the "attitude" in threads like these wouldn't be expressed to my face in such a manner, if we were all standing around the hangar talking.

Excellent analogy, btw.
 
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BellyUpFish said:
The aircraft is now happily living in a t-hangar, I had no issues with the plane being removed. I've just seen aircraft with drips of fuel here and there in hangars all over this country. Spent much time around any warbirds? I was curious as to what made this special.

We're talking drip............ drip.......... drip..... We are not talking a running flow of Jet-A inches deep all over the hangar floor. Either way, I get it. I'm an idiot, you guys are much more intelligent than I. ;)

It's pretty easy to express the reasoning behind this without being a total douche, but it takes thought to express these comments in such a manner, thus making it easier to be a douche and thus, that's what often happens on the Internet.

I'd bet my last pay check half the "attitude" in threads like these wouldn't be expressed to my face in such a manner, if we were all standing around the hangar talking.

Excellent analogy, btw.
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No prob. Glad we got this cleared up. I did offer you an alternative which would be financially responsible once you were made aware of the leak. I'm wondering if you made that call to the insurance carrier? Anything I wrote in this thread, I would not only say to your face, I might go out of me way to find you, and have this chat in private - as it were if I had a plane in the same hangar.
 
docmirror said:
I did offer you an alternative which would be financially responsible once you were made aware of the leak. I'm wondering if you made that call to the insurance carrier? Anything I wrote in this thread, I would not only say to your face, I might go out of me way to find you, and have this chat in private - as it were if I had a plane in the same hangar.
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Wow.. This thread is really getting out of hand..

No, I didn't make any insurance calls, mainly because I don't desire to keep my aircraft in a community hangar and my aircraft isn't leaking fuel. My aircraft can continue to live in its own private hangar. I appreciate your concern though.

I also didn't make any calls in regards to actual aircraft we are discussing in this thread either, mainly because I think the most responsible thing to do would be to remove the aircraft from the hangar to a more suitable location until the leak can be repaired, which as previously noted, has been accomplished.

However, the owner is aware of the situation, he's also on board with the current location of the aircraft. If he'd like to discuss this situation with the insurance carrier on his aircraft concerning a situation that doesn't exist, I suspect he'd will do that.

I never stated I thought keeping an explosive situation bottled up was ok. I haven't protested the moving the aircraft one bit. I voluntarily went to the airport as in the very original post of this thread and moved the aircraft. I'm totally on board with moving the aircraft out of the hangar, especially given the many valid thoughts posted in this thread.

Why you need to continue to be a jerk about this is beyond me. If you'd like to continue to berate me over the subject, feel free to shoot me your phone number and we can discuss it over the phone. :dunno:
 
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Belly, this started out a little surprising. I chalked this up to inexperience on the part of many. It evolved into being funny, since I don't have a dog in this hunt. It then moved into the realm of ridiculous.

It appears obvious that a couple of drops a minute of KEROSENE is just not an issue. Of course the prudent thing would be to put something to absorb or catch the small amount of kerosene. They use to keep three 2'X 2' absorbent mats under the Citation that was out there in that hangar.

I originally thought the search had to be far and wide to find a manager like the one you are dealing with. I was wrong. All the commision had to do was interview pilots from POA. I hope many of the posters above were just having fun and poking you a little. If not, my opinion of the pilot population has just come down a notch.

I know you wish you had never posted anything. Maybe you can get it up to Gordon soon. Have a good day.
 
bnt83 said:
No kidding. I'd say 80% of the airplanes that come in for maintenance have a fuel seep or leak.
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I would find it hard to believe any FAA Maint. inspector would agree with fuel leaking as a normal.
 
I did not see the word normal used but, it is common.
 
ronnieh said:
I originally thought the search had to be far and wide to find a manager like the one you are dealing with. I was wrong. All the commision had to do was interview pilots from POA. I hope many of the posters above were just having fun and poking you a little. If not, my opinion of the pilot population has just come down a notch..
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It's the way the threads go these days. It's been a good read while I let the boat battery charge.

Everyone needs to spout off and show everyone else how impressive they are. I post mainly at two different aviation boards, one mostly composed of "GA" types and the other mostly composed of "professional" types. It's always fun to post the same thread in both places and watch the different reactions that arrive.

I'm inclined to believe it's a bunch of SE-VFR- gifts to aviation types dispensing most of the Chicken Little advice here. It'd be neat to see next to our user names some indicator of general experience level. Just for grins.

I could get right in line with some of the attitude if I was actively up in arms over having the plane moved, arguing with the logic behind having it moved or disagreeing in any way, sure, I could understand some of the attitude. But as it sits, I got a phone call from one of the line guys that said "hey, your plane is leaking again.. We're pulling it out."

I drove over, fired the thing up and moved it into an open T-hangar to get it out of the elements, said thanks and went to the house.

You'd think I barged into someones office here ranting and raving about why the airplane had been drug across the airport with the parking brake on..
 
Could be some of us have a Tankerman's license and have a lot of in depth training on fuel handling and how little things like a metal bowl with a small puddle of fuel, even kerosene, in it will have a layer of vapor between the LEL and UEL, and that a drop of that same fuel falling through the air will gain a static charge that has the potential to ignite that vapor layer. Is it a common occurrence? Hell no, but there is more than one precedent, why do you think you still have to ground the fuel to the plane when you fill it, even a JetA burning plane.

I only pointed out that was the reason for the airport manager pulling the plane out of a hangar, and I bet that there is verbiage in FAR 139 that instructs him to do exactly such.
 
Henning, you weren't included in the list. You're more than capable of having a civil discussion without being a jerk.

Lots of knowledge here, none of which I've attempted to debate, which is why I don't understand the attitude contained in the continual posts since admitting the situation has been resolved.
 
BellyUpFish said:
Henning, you weren't included in the list. You're more than capable of having a civil discussion without being a jerk.

Lots of knowledge here, none of which I've attempted to debate, which is why I don't understand the attitude contained in the continual posts since admitting the situation has been resolved.
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I understand which is why I quit posting about it, I was just trying to help you see the manager's perspective. People will say what they want, if you're done responding, be done. As long as you post a reply you will get more argument because that's why people come here.:lol:
 
I've have fuel leaks before in a community hangar, Jet A and 100LL, both were handled with a bucket to catch the fuel and repaired at the first possible chance. None were pouring out, but leaking non the less, I think it depends a lot on the FBO and their policies.
Right after I bought my 182 the left bladder decided to let loose, it was a blue mess running down the door post! :eek:
 
The old DC-9 had a acceptable seepage and drip rate to continue in service. This was not acceptable in the hangar. The old DC-6 wing leaks , used something like a big wax stick to rub along the seam to seal it, never saw it used with Jet-A. Not sure if the new jets have a acceptable leakage rate or not in the manual.:popcorn:
 
BellyUpFish said:
It's the way the threads go these days. It's been a good read while I let the boat battery charge.

Everyone needs to spout off and show everyone else how impressive they are. I post mainly at two different aviation boards, one mostly composed of "GA" types and the other mostly composed of "professional" types. It's always fun to post the same thread in both places and watch the different reactions that arrive.

I'm inclined to believe it's a bunch of SE-VFR- gifts to aviation types dispensing most of the Chicken Little advice here. It'd be neat to see next to our user names some indicator of general experience level. Just for grins.

I could get right in line with some of the attitude if I was actively up in arms over having the plane moved, arguing with the logic behind having it moved or disagreeing in any way, sure, I could understand some of the attitude. But as it sits, I got a phone call from one of the line guys that said "hey, your plane is leaking again.. We're pulling it out."

I drove over, fired the thing up and moved it into an open T-hangar to get it out of the elements, said thanks and went to the house.

You'd think I barged into someones office here ranting and raving about why the airplane had been drug across the airport with the parking brake on..
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I am just a dumb old idiot who stuffed a NASCAR V-8 in a homebuilt I created....
Just ignore me and my comments please...;)
 
BellyUpFish said:
It'd be neat to see next to our user names some indicator of general experience level. Just for grins.
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Just pull a Ron Levy and remind everyone of your experience every 3 posts. When I see that, all I think is, "yep, you're old and think everyone should treat you as the Messiah." :D
 
BellyUpFish said:
But as it sits, I got a phone call from one of the line guys that said "hey, your plane is leaking again.. We're pulling it out."
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Lord - help us lowly POS GA aviators aspire to 'pro pilot' status. ;)

I'd appreciate it if you'd go to the user CP and put me on ignore. I'll help you out by doing the same here.

Cheers.:wineglass:

<Edit; Hey, I forgot something. We'd like a pic of you in the epaulets, hat, and mirror glasses. Gotta have the glasses on, maybe holding an E6-B? Thanks, love ya, mean it. Have your people call my people we'll do lunch next week, or month, I'll let ya know. >
 
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docmirror said:
Lord - help us lowly POS GA aviators aspire to 'pro pilot' status. ;)

I'd appreciate it if you'd go to the user CP and put me on ignore. I'll help you out by doing the same here.

Cheers.:wineglass:

<Edit; Hey, I forgot something. We'd like a pic of you in the epaulets, hat, and mirror glasses. Gotta have the glasses on, maybe holding an E6-B? Thanks, love ya, mean it. Have your people call my people we'll do lunch next week, or month, I'll let ya know.

Your first comment is not the worst idea you have had. Aspiring to be a more knowledgeable pilot can be useful.

If you are questioning the OP's credentials, you will lose that one. OP Please don't dignify the post above with a response. I am pretty sure OP is through with this thread as am I. :D
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EdFred said:
Just pull a Ron Levy and remind everyone of your experience every 3 posts. When I see that, all I think is, "yep, you're old and think everyone should treat you as the Messiah." :D
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Didn't he get banned from here?
 
BellyUpFish said:
It's really a pain with no MX on field.
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Are there any fields with MX within range of the airplane? Can it land there? ;)

ROFLMAO. Seriously. With an airplane that's a pretty weak excuse.

Find one with a rental car available, it's an even weaker excuse.
 
brien23 said:
Not sure if the new jets have a acceptable leakage rate or not in the manual.:popcorn:
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In the maintenance manual, yes.

I had a handful of people try to convince me to fly a Hawker once that had a leak rate in the hangar that was within the maintenance manual limits...unfortunately it also left a trail to the ramp after landing, and had a 3-foot puddle under it by the time the door was opened.:rolleyes:
 
missing from this ****ing match is the simple idea that things that occurr in a maintenance hangar related to oils, fuels, etc, are often not going to be tolerated in a community non-maintenance hangar, completely at the discretion of the hangar owner.
 
JHW said:
missing from this ****ing match is the simple idea that things that occurr in a maintenance hangar related to oils, fuels, etc, are often not going to be tolerated in a community non-maintenance hangar, completely at the discretion of the hangar owner.
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What seems to be missing even more is that the plane is no longer in the hangar and not was there ever an issue with the plane being removed.

You'd think I've been storming and stomping about demanding the plane cause a possible explosive situation.

I guess if that's what is needed, I'll just go along.

WHY IS THE PLANE BEING REMOVED FROM THE HANGAR! I DEMAND EXPLOSIONS!!!!
 
then why did you start this thread? Go back and read what you wrote. Failing that, maybe a few more hysterics will make you feel better. Carry on.
 
JHW said:
then why did you start this thread? Go back and read what you wrote. Failing that, maybe a few more hysterics will make you feel better. Carry on.
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That would be my question too. You posted this.

BellyUpFish said:
Ok, so the Cheyenne I'm flying has developed a small fuel (Jet A) leak.

This leak has caused airport management to pull the aircraft out and leave it on the ramp.

I'm unsure, and I'm headed to the airport in a few to discuss this, as to the reasoning behind having it sit on the ramp.

Anyone have any idea why this would be required to sit on the ramp?
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If you ask for opinions you will get them and they might not be what you want to hear.

Also, there are many turboprops and jets in our hangar and none of them leak fuel. I would smell the Jet A immediately since I dislike the odor. As far as sitting out on the ramp, I would say, "their hangar, their rules".
 
JHW said:
missing from this ****ing match is the simple idea that things that occurr in a maintenance hangar related to oils, fuels, etc, are often not going to be tolerated in a community non-maintenance hangar, completely at the discretion of the hangar owner.
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Exactly, maintenance hangars also pay more for insurance than storage hangars.
 
BellyUpFish said:
What seems to be missing even more is that the plane is no longer in the hangar and not was there ever an issue with the plane being removed.

You'd think I've been storming and stomping about demanding the plane cause a possible explosive situation.

I guess if that's what is needed, I'll just go along.

WHY IS THE PLANE BEING REMOVED FROM THE HANGAR! I DEMAND EXPLOSIONS!!!!
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Well hell, if that's what you wanted you should have PMed me.:lol: Is it still leaking? It's not too late...:rofl:
 
Henning said:
Well hell, if that's what you wanted you should have PMed me.:lol: Is it still leaking? It's not too late...:rofl:
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GIVE THE MAN SOME FIREWORKS FOR HIS GOD (OR LESS) DAMNED (OR NOT) BIRTHDAY!!!:yes:
 
Henning said:
Well hell, if that's what you wanted you should have PMed me.:lol: Is it still leaking? It's not too late...:rofl:
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If there aren't explosions, I'm not interested..

It's been fun. You guys keep it real. :rofl:

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