Last flight - weird ATC question

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
On my last flight, i got fliggt following to 1N1. On the wau, I thought it might be dark and didn't want to land there after dark so I told Albuquerque center that I was changing destination to 0E0.

Me: Center, N6942P will be going to 0E0, Moriarity instead.
Center: For what reason?
Me: Just in case. Don't want to land after dark and the two airports are only a few miles apart
Center: Ok, continue own navigation to Moriarty

That's the gist of the conversation. Why did Center want to know? Also, I probably didn't need to say anything since it was the exact same flight path up until he handed me to advisory frequency anyway, but I did it anyway
 
SkyHog said:
On my last flight, i got fliggt following to 1N1. On the wau, I thought it might be dark and didn't want to land there after dark so I told Albuquerque center that I was changing destination to 0E0.

Me: Center, N6942P will be going to 0E0, Moriarity instead.
Center: For what reason?
Me: Just in case. Don't want to land after dark and the two airports are only a few miles apart
Center: Ok, continue own navigation to Moriarty

That's the gist of the conversation. Why did Center want to know? Also, I probably didn't need to say anything since it was the exact same flight path up until he handed me to advisory frequency anyway, but I did it anyway
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After 9/11 ATC always has to ask why for a diversion.
 
maybe they wanted to make sure there wasn't a real problem that you may have been reluctant to declare an emergency for?
 
I know they have to ask it, but I have always wondered what are acceptable vs unacceptable answers....and what action they would take if you declined to answer.
I have said in the past something like 'I am told we need to go somewhere else' or 'the principals need to go to kabc now' and never got further probing.
Is it codified that we have to publicly broadcast a reason to change our destination or is it in the PCG or where?
 
Yup...first time I got that it caught me off guard as I was not prepared for an answer..."uhhh, cuz I forgot that is where I left my car..."..."HA, roger...we have to ask".

Turns out it is SOP now any time you change your destination mid flight. You can really make up anything if you want, pretty sure it is just a verification and covering their bases that you don't have a problem.
 
Kritchlow said:
After 9/11 ATC always has to ask why for a diversion.
Click to expand...

I know I've gotten the query when I've changed my destination while flying IFR but I can't remember ever getting the question while flying VFR. Is ATC still obligated to ask when you're not on an IFR clearance?

Less than two weeks ago I did this. I was even IFR and I canceled my clearance and told ATC my new destination, no questions asked. I'm not arguing, just genuinely curious.
 
Kritchlow said:
After 9/11 ATC always has to ask why for a diversion.
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It’s this. Stupidly. This. Because you know, bad guys will just tell the controller they’re doing something bad. LOL.

Meanwhile the rest of us in the real world have to tell the controller that a passenger needs to take a dump because they overdid it on the green chili last night. Or they need to take a leak because they drank too much coffee this morning.

Nobody is ever going to hear a response of, “Some bad guy wants to me fling this 2950 lb aluminum beer can at something that it’ll crush against and bounce off of, and all that will accomplish is someone will get to scrape up what’s left of us with a shovel and put us in a biohazard bag.”
 
mondtster said:
I know I've gotten the query when I've changed my destination while flying IFR but I can't remember ever getting the question while flying VFR. Is ATC still obligated to ask when you're not on an IFR clearance?

Less than two weeks ago I did this. I was even IFR and I canceled my clearance and told ATC my new destination, no questions asked. I'm not arguing, just genuinely curious.
Click to expand...

Not a requirement for VFRs but some facilities still log it and report it to the DEN. Used to be a requirement to report a change of destination for IFRs but since the order was canceled in 2011, not sure if it’s still required. Friend of mine at ATL said they stil report a change of destination on IFRs.
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
I know they have to ask it, but I have always wondered what are acceptable vs unacceptable answers....and what action they would take if you declined to answer.
I have said in the past something like 'I am told we need to go somewhere else' or 'the principals need to go to kabc now' and never got further probing.
Is it codified that we have to publicly broadcast a reason to change our destination or is it in the PCG or where?
Click to expand...
“No issues. I have a new destination.”

No personal information needs to be shared.
 
And I thought they were just being inquisitive?
 
Never perturbed me.....I'm married so I'm used to nosiness.
 
“Hi, ATC people? Anyone there? Can someone watch me fly around and tell me about other airplanes and stuff, be my guardian angels?”

{some sqwak code and such}

<Center> “Radar contact at blah blah blah...”

“Hey guys, I wanna go somewhere else, someplace totally different than I told you I was going, ok?”

<Center> “Where and why?”

“Stop spying on me and invading my right to secrets! I’m a big time pilot!”
 
rk911 said:
maybe they wanted to make sure there wasn't a real problem that you may have been reluctant to declare an emergency for?
Click to expand...

This. We all know pilots are reluctant to declare. Well, many are also reluctant to make aware. Many, way too many, tend to play things too close to the vest and will not mention a problem unless the plane is engulfed in flames and in a flat spin to boot and even then might just say they have a little problem. But if asked a simple question, many will open up. This is good. The help ATC can provide or get rolling on the ground can save lives.
 
ATC doesn’t care about spying on us and they don’t inquire because they’re wondering if you might declare an emergency for possible assistance. It’s a post 9/11 change.

They inquire, because they log callsign, type aircraft, (IFR/VFR) destination and why change of destination (fuel, WX, mech, etc) in the sup’s log. They then call that into the domestic events network because it’s a requirement. One of the many things that are required to be reported to the DEN. Not just required items (NORDO, emergencies, lasers, UAVs etc) any suspicious aircraft activity can be called in.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Not a requirement for VFRs but some facilities still log it and report it to the DEN. Used to be a requirement to report a change of destination for IFRs but since the order was canceled, not sure if it’s still required. Friend of mine at ATL said they stil report a change of destination on IFRs.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
 
I used to fly far enough west that put Russia well in fuel range. They sure wanted to know why I changed destinations.

If I remember right they would ask, "Are you Ok.??"

Yes, changing destination due to weather.
 
Velocity173 said:
ATC doesn’t care about spying on us and they don’t inquire because they’re wondering if you might declare an emergency for possible assistance. It’s a post 9/11 change.

They inquire, because they log callsign, type aircraft, (IFR/VFR) destination and why change of destination (fuel, WX, mech, etc) in the sup’s log. They then call that into the domestic events network because it’s a requirement. One of the many things that are required to be reported to the DEN. Not just required items (NORDO, emergencies, lasers, UAVs etc) any suspicious aircraft activity can be called in.
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And then what does this "DEN" do with the info? Add your tail to a watch list for DEA?
 
Zeldman said:
I used to fly far enough west that put Russia well in fuel range. They sure wanted to know why I changed destinations.

If I remember right they would ask, "Are you Ok.??"

Yes, changing destination due to weather.
Click to expand...
'Yeah, I want to defect to the Soviet Union."
 
Velocity173 said:
Not a requirement for VFRs but some facilities still log it and report it to the DEN. Used to be a requirement to report a change of destination for IFRs but since the order was canceled in 2011, not sure if it’s still required. Friend of mine at ATL said they stil report a change of destination on IFRs.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I was told (ca. 2012) by an ASI that it is required, period. In my case I was VFR on flight following, had an instrument glitch, made precautionary landing. Ended up being grilled by said ASI.
 
paflyer said:
And then what does this "DEN" do with the info? Add your tail to a watch list for DEA?
Click to expand...

DEN doesn’t do anything. It’s just a conference call “network” in that has all the centers and several govt agencies (NORAD, DHS, FBI etc) that monitor the call. You’d have to ask each agency what they do with the information. If it’s not deemed “suspicious” I’m sure you’ll never hear from any of them.
 
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azure said:
Interesting. I was told (ca. 2012) by an ASI that it is required, period. In my case I was VFR on flight following, had an instrument glitch, made precautionary landing. Ended up being grilled by said ASI.
Click to expand...

This is the canceled order. I’ve talked to 2 controllers within the past year and they said they report only IFRs. Can report VFRs if suspicious though.

Edit: I believe you said in a previous thread that ATC wrote it up as an emergency? Yeah, that’ll get called into the DEN regardless of destination change. Pretty sure the facility QA guy forwards the report to the local FSDO as well.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7210.761.pdf
 
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Velocity173 said:
DEN doesn’t do anything. It’s just a conference call in that has all the centers and several govt agencies (NORAD, DHS, FBI etc) that monitor the call. You’d have to ask each agency what they do with the information. If it’s not deemed “suspicious” I’m sure you’ll never hear from any of them.
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It's none of their business. Why is general aviation so under the eye? No wonder people don't file unless absolutely necessary.
 
paflyer said:
It's none of their business. Why is general aviation so under the eye? No wonder people don't file unless absolutely necessary.
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with GA. ATC calls in a whole slew of stuff (NORDO, lasers, emergencies, UAV encounters, Hijacks, etc) on EVERY aircraft.
 
paflyer said:
It's none of their business. Why is general aviation so under the eye? No wonder people don't file unless absolutely necessary.
Click to expand...
I don’t see it as an invasion of privacy at all. The question is innocuous and easily deflected. I have no trouble responding with “passenger comfort” or “weather” and avoid things which I think might trigger a regulatory response such as “the pick up moved” or “the chems are wearing off and we need to shoot up again”
 
Velocity173 said:
Has nothing to do with GA. ATC calls in a whole slew of stuff (NORDO, lasers, emergencies, UAV encounters, Hijacks, etc) on EVERY aircraft.
Click to expand...
So if you "lie to a Federal Official" are you guilty of perjury?
 
Lachlan said:
“Hi, ATC people? Anyone there? Can someone watch me fly around and tell me about other airplanes and stuff, be my guardian angels?”

{some sqwak code and such}

<Center> “Radar contact at blah blah blah...”

“Hey guys, I wanna go somewhere else, someplace totally different than I told you I was going, ok?”

<Center> “Where and why?”

“Stop spying on me and invading my right to secrets! I’m a big time pilot!”
Click to expand...
You're an idiot

To elaborate - this has nothing to do for the concern. The concern was more that I wasn't making ATC do extra unnecessary work for themselves that might have otherwise not been necessary
 
A little off topic, but I'll throw it out there. I got a call from FSDO not long ago asking why I aborted a take off. I explained I had no airspeed indication during my take off roll. Water froze in the pito tube, taxied back to tie down warmed up the pito tube and sucked out the water. 30 min later took off and had a nice flight.

The conversation was professional and cordial. I thought the call was a little strange, but I had no problem with talking to the PAIM.
 
SkyHog said:
You're an idiot

To elaborate - this has nothing to do for the concern. The concern was more that I wasn't making ATC do extra unnecessary work for themselves that might have otherwise not been necessary
Click to expand...

Yeah, I’m a lot of things. But I’m not the kind of guy that would make someone “do extra unnecessary work that might have otherwise not been necessary” (quoting a really smart guy.)
 
Velocity173 said:
This is the canceled order. I’ve talked to 2 controllers within the past year and they said they report only IFRs. Can report VFRs if suspicious though.

Edit: I believe you said in a previous thread that ATC wrote it up as an emergency? Yeah, that’ll get called into the DEN regardless of destination change. Pretty sure the facility QA guy forwards the report to the local FSDO as well.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7210.761.pdf
Click to expand...
No, I understand that since they declared it as an emergency it would be called in. I was just asking about what the ASI told me - required, VFR or IFR, no qualification. Okay, so that was a previous order, since canceled. Roger that.
 
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