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Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by jallen0, Jan 26, 2020.
What is in that circled area? Camarillo is further west of there.
This is odd...
Very sad, RIP.
His basketball academy, and report is now another parent and child on board.
Anything out there on live ATC about having a issue causing them to change plans. That weather seems like you be on a fight plan talking
I saw that too. It's right next to Griffith Park. Maybe they were looking at the Hollywood sign. That said, it was a pretty lousy day to be out sightseeing. Low viz and low clouds.
Or simply a failed turn back attempt if the local visibility immediately ahead was driving them down? The track suggests they were below the deck, following the highway, navigating visually.
I like watching helicopters from the ground. Never liked riding in them
If they had another parent and child on board, they may have done some sightseeing for their entertainment. Not many people get to ride on a helicopter.
Scud running the coast is common from SMO up to Point Mugu. Looks like that is what they were doing then tried to pop over around the county line beach area?
I tried pulling this up on FlightAware and can’t grab it. Did they pull it? For that same
Tail, I didn’t see anything recent that looked filed as IFR. Clearly conditions were marginal at best if not blatant IMC. I’m just wondering if flown VFR in IMC.... wouldn’t be the first time this sort of thing happened unfortunately
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The pilot may have been talking to Point Mugu approach but I can't find their frequency on LiveATC.
Sad news RIP
I'm guessing you've all seen this graphic. If they were headed to Mamba, this is odd.
It originally looked like they were scud running to Malibu and missed the turn after climbing for terrain - turned back to catch Las Virgenes - descending to get back below the soup... Turns out my ignorance may still be intact. RIP to those lost and peace to their families.
Looks like the aircraft circled for eleven minutes at 800 ft MSL just outside the Burbank Class C surface area -- maybe waiting for a special VFR clearance?
Well since we're all speculating... I'll speculate based on my experience and the pic posted previously.
153Knts in low vis scud running is just wrong! You're in a HELICOPTER!
There are simple rules for this.
1. NEVER lose reference to the surface.
2. NEVER fly faster then you are willing to hit something.
3. If #1 fails, immediately transition to instruments and initiate a climb, turning towards known lower elevation. (Pre Planning)
My sincere condolences to all involved in this accident. I'm sorry for your loses.
That's the boundary of the Burbank Class C surface area.
The first audio recording is https://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbur/KBUR3-Gnd-Twr-App-Jan-26-2020-1700Z.mp3 starting around 20 min into recording. They were approaching the Burbank class Charlie, and BUR went IFR. Controller told them to remain clear class charlie, say intentions. Pilot said they wanted to transition SVFR. They end up holding for 15 mins before cleared SVFR to transition north via I5, 118, 101 west. Then handed off to VNY helo frequency: https://archive-server.liveatc.net/kvny/KVNY-Ground-Jan-26-2020-1730Z.mp3 starting at around 5:30. At around 10:00 pilot requests turn to southwest, controller grants request and sends him to SoCal approach: https://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbur/KBUR3-Gnd-Twr-App-Jan-26-2020-1730Z.mp3 He checks on at around 14:00 in the recording. 2EX cannot be heard, but controller tells him they are too low for flight following. It seems radio contact is lost at that point.
Press conference on now - LA County Sheriff now says 9 aboard.
Here is 2EX at Burbank (BUR) https://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbur/KBUR3-Gnd-Twr-App-Jan-26-2020-1730Z.mp3
until 5:10 then they go to Van Nuys (VNY) at 5:33 we don't hear the helo only the tower
At around 30:00 it sounds like the tower clears a SAR in SVFR
Clearly was not flying ifr as he left with a special vfr request.
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Sounds like scud running - special VFR around VNY, then lost contact. https://forums.liveatc.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15767.0;attach=10604
switched from VNY twr to SoCal right before end of recording. So Cal tells him he's too low for flight following...then unanswered calls..
Awful. I too saw a report that they were flying under Special VFR. Conditions at KFUL were pretty awful this AM. RIP to all onboard.
The high speed is puzzling. Mechanical malfunction?
It’s obviously apparent that they were not on a IFR flight plan and was flying low in hilly terrain.
Can any helo pilots explain why the pilot wouldn’t want to file IFR?
Wow- this is really tough. I’m a flat lander pilot but I just really get so confused when pilots in mountains on low visibility days try to scud run and don’t just fly IFR. It just seems so incredibly risky.
No approach to the destination is my guess.
This is in my neighborhood.
I appreciate this but I’m confused. Those who know the area maybe can help. Why does it look like the pilot turned towards the higher terrain? Is there any lower terrain the pilot could have turned to? If he was starting the approach, wouldn’t he be starting it below the minimum safe altitude in the area?
Rising terrain on the original heading, peaks are 3k+, flying svfr, no approach, vis extremely low.
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Right but if I’m reading the topo map correctly, it looks like the pilot had lower terrain to his right and turned left. That’s what’s confusing to me.
S76 is a serious helicopter, be interesting as to what caused this.
Lets see. Less than perfect WX. Single pilot. Hilly terrain. A type that has less than optimal over the nose visibility. Snappy control response. Lots of buttons and switches to mind. Did I mention SINGLE PILOT?
Any body still wondering about the hazards?
You can fly in really horrible weather while VFR in a helicopter. The object is to get there safely, so if you are low and following landmarks, you keep your speed slow and be prepared for an unexpected landing to wait out the weather or abort.
The S-76B has PT-6 engines and is the only version to have that engine. There were known issues with that model, but the overall safety record is about the same as other versions of the S-76. I flew A, A++ and C++ models and they were very reliable aircraft.
If they were flying in those conditions faster that 80-90 knots, something was terribly wrong...