King Air dual engine failure 27K

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Gucci Pilot, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. Gucci Pilot

    Gucci Pilot Pattern Altitude

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  2. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Huh, is there an NTSB on it yet? Losing two turbines is definitely odd enough that it makes one first wonder about fuel.
     
  3. woodchucker

    woodchucker Line Up and Wait

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    He lost his engines at 27,000' and couldn't make an airport?

    :D;)

    Seriously though, losing power on one, and subsequently the other? That almost has to be a fuel issue. If so, it's a tragedy.
     
  4. Gucci Pilot

    Gucci Pilot Pattern Altitude

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    Looks like he was at 12,000. I think he made the airport but came in too fast.
     
  5. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Two PT6s check out at the same time eh? I'd buy a lotto ticket.
     
  6. woodchucker

    woodchucker Line Up and Wait

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    A sat view of the airport marking the landing would be helpful. My thoughts would be that if you are dead-sticking a landing coming in too fast, then you screwed up the approach. Maybe screwed up fuel too. My own jealous thoughts? If you don't like that airplane, just give it to me. :yes:
     
  7. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Or he secured the wrong engine after one failed. Lot's of possible causes.
     
  8. TEFLONSEAN

    TEFLONSEAN Line Up and Wait

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    Come on.....spark plugs were fouled....was running too rich...easy answer!!!;):goofy:
     
  9. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Then NTSBreport should be an interesting read.
     
  10. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

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    Knowing that the fuel system on the King Air is somewhat tricky to manage, I'd bet there was fuel on board. The pilot just didn't know which tanks it was in. Yep! Seen that happen when one landed in the lake a half mile short of the runway.
     
  11. Dr. O

    Dr. O Pattern Altitude

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    PILOT CALLED A HERO

    Uummm, that's not what I'm thinking he needs ot be called.
     
  12. narchee

    narchee Line Up and Wait

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    I actually saw this plane shortly after it happened. Someone at the airport told me they had been trying to get to LEX. My money is on fuel issue (as in lack of)...
     
  13. FloridaPilot

    FloridaPilot Pattern Altitude

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    Pardon my ignorance but can fuel contamination be an issue here?
     
  14. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    We had a KingAir crash in Springdale AR a couple years ago. Pilot was known to only dribble in enough fuel for the trip. Took off from pine Bluff after getting some avionics work done pretty much at bingo fuel.

    Killed himself and all because he had a policy of not "tankering fuel" . 99% of the time I'm all ways fuel fuel. The other 1% I've got at least 1/2 fuel on board and hopping over to MX, a 10 min flight.

    Loosing both turbines......guaranteed to be fuel, or lack thereof.
     
  15. KSCessnaDriver

    KSCessnaDriver Pattern Altitude

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    What's so tricky about it? I can't believe Beech would change it that much from the small king air family to the big king airs
     
  16. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    99.999999999% fuel exhaustion......

    Funny how they are always able to throw a tarp over the N numbers ASAP...:rolleyes:
     
  17. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Cleared for Takeoff

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    That extra 45 cents per gallon doesn't seem costly after all.
     
  18. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I tend not to tanker fuel in twins either because of OEI performance considerations, but I don't cut it that kind of close.
     
  19. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach

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    A PT6 will burn through a lot more gunk than a piston.
     
  20. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Fuel Contamination? Bet the tanks contained excessively quantities of air.
     
  21. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Tricky?


    1.Boost pumps on.


    If you forget, they STILL run.:yes:
     
  22. MachFly

    MachFly En-Route

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    If fuel exhaustion was the cause then we should see an NTSB report rather soon.
     
  23. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Same for me. My company had a rule to keep at least a one hour reserve.
     
  24. overdrive148

    overdrive148 En-Route

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    Pure gold. I'll have to add that to the fuel contamination results thread :rofl:
     
  25. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, let's put it this way.

    I don't see any evidence of foam, fire, or dead grass in those photos.
     
  26. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner En-Route

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    Not seeing anything on the NTSB site yet...
     
  27. MachFly

    MachFly En-Route

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    http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20150803X51616&key=1
     
  28. RotorDude

    RotorDude Pattern Altitude

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  29. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Taken from a BeechTalk post by someone familiar with this issue in C90s:

    "If fuel gets very low in the nacelle (main) tank, then a loss of fuel flow/fuel pressure will be interpreted by the system as a boost pump failure and the crossfeed opens to allow the remaining boost pump on the other side to supply both engines. But if both side's fuel is low/empty, then a double flameout will occur shortly/now."

    This apparently can happen if the crossfeed is in Auto.
     
  30. ronnieh

    ronnieh Cleared for Takeoff

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    + 1 Exactly. This is covered in any sim school.
     
  31. narchee

    narchee Line Up and Wait

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    There is quite a discussion though on fuel. It left CYRL with an unspecified quantity of fuel. It landed at DLH and took on 140 gallons. It then landed at DAY and was NOT fueled. It then went on to SME but didn't make it and crashed at 27K.

    So someone with knowledge on KA's help us out: CYRL to DLH to DAY to 27K is how many gallons of fuel used? Remove 140 that we know was added in DLH, and we are left with how much they would have had to have leaving CYRL. That would be interesting to know...
     
  32. MachFly

    MachFly En-Route

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    Expect about 250TAS and 285pph/side.

    I believe a C90 holds about 385gal. I fly an E90 with a different fuel system, so perhaps someone can confirm the fuel capacity on a C.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  33. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Is that for 12k?

    Some of the comments on BT by other C90 folks seem to think that was a relatively low altitude for him to cruise at and consequently higher fuel burn.
     
  34. MachFly

    MachFly En-Route

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    That's for 24K.

    I'm not sure exactly what altitude this guy was at. If it was 12K, than that is rather low. Kinda a pointless altitude for that airplane. At 12K it would be around 350pph/side with a true of no more than 240kts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  35. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    I have a rule of one hour reserve as will.
     
  36. narchee

    narchee Line Up and Wait

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    Very rough crude calculation for 12K at 350 pph/side at a TAS of 240 kts:

    Straightline distance is 905 nm. At 12K then that is 3.8 hours. So that is 2660 lbs of fuel total used.

    That is 394 gallons. Minus 140 is 254 Gallons of jet fuel on departure from CYRL.
     
  37. MachFly

    MachFly En-Route

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    How do we know that he was at 12K?
     
  38. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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  39. MachFly

    MachFly En-Route

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  40. MachFly

    MachFly En-Route

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    What I don't get is why his right engine isn't feathered and left is. In a duel engine failure I'd assume you feather both or none. In the NTSB report it says that the autofeather feather the right engine, he may or may not have feathered the left engine. According to the post crash picture, the left is feathered, while the right clearly isn't and also clearly wasn't spinning during impact.

    http://www.baaa-acro.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/N257CQ-1.jpg