Ken Burns "Vietnam" Documentary Series Begins Tonight

Walt said:
The series brought back many memories for me. A very few good most not good. I was disappointed that the real cause of the war was never discussed. Few people know that the South China Sea overlays a huge puddle of oil. The Japanese invaded Vietnam in WarII hoping to take the oil for Japan. The French, after the war allowed Shell Oil to drill. When I was in Vietnam in 1970, I stood on the shore of the South China Sea and watched them drill. The oil platforms were south of Saigon and the area was secured by ARVNs. Very few US troops got to that area. I am sure the the oil interests kept the pressure on Washington to keep the war going so they would not have their interests nationalized.
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Considering first oil production in Vietnam was 1986 I have to wonder what you were watching...
and yes, in 1992 I was given early warnings of being assigned to go to Vietnam to support drilling ops. I opted out.
 
mscard88 said:
...but me love you long time..

* movie quote you perverts
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At the time it was still unusual/difficult for US citizens to be in Vietnam. The US had no official representation in the country not that had much meaning. I never have had contact with US government when overseas. Anyway, the whole thing sounded like a really dodgy deal with a few of us stuck in a hellhole dealing with impossible logistics. When this stuff came up I was in India saying to myself that we can drill a hole and set pipe. Anything else is out of the question. Of course the clients wanted to production test...can you say BBQ drilling rig? It's the only time I've been happy to see a dry hole.
 
Clark,
You might want to google "Oil Production Vietnam" and spend some time researching. A lot has been added to many of the sites in the past 5 years but you should be able to find where the folks in Hanoi setup a national oil company in 1975. I found a site that said Royal Dutch Shell started drilling operations in 1959. I do not know but think at the end of the war the Vietnamese nationalized Shell's operation. Since 1975 they having been leasing off shore tracts and perhaps the company that wanted you to go may have leased in 1992.
I had a MACV advisor with me in 1970 who was billeted in Can Tho (sp?) and told me the oil workers were billeted near him.
 
Walt said:
Clark,
You might want to google "Oil Production Vietnam" and spend some time researching. A lot has been added to many of the sites in the past 5 years but you should be able to find where the folks in Hanoi setup a national oil company in 1975. I found a site that said Royal Dutch Shell started drilling operations in 1959. I do not know but think at the end of the war the Vietnamese nationalized Shell's operation. Since 1975 they having been leasing off shore tracts and perhaps the company that wanted you to go may have leased in 1992.
I had a MACV advisor with me in 1970 who was billeted in Can Tho (sp?) and told me the oil workers were billeted near him.
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1975? Hmmm, That's a long time after the Japanese occupation and even after the vast majority of the conflict with US involvement.

In other words, there was no production prior to 86. There was exploratory drilling prior to that which is what you may have seen. Exploratory drilling does not equal oil discovery or exploitation.
 
The same people convinced that Vietnam was invaded for the crude think that Afghanistan was invaded for its gas reserves.
 
Clark,
For some references try Newworldencyclopedia.org and search for Royal Dutch Shell. About halfway down the page is a paragraph titled Vietnam War. It cites a book which is available on Amazon. A second cite would be a document called The Secret History how the Rockefellers found oil in Vietnam and went to war to get it. I do not if it is 100% factual but will give you a timeline. There is lots more stuff on point but you will appreciate it more if you do the research yourself.
 
Watched the first couple of episodes. Something seems “off” about Burns’ presentation vs what I know from dad’s experiences and other friends who were there. I can’t put my finger on it yet. Maybe Burns gets around to it in later episodes...
 
denverpilot said:
Watched the first couple of episodes. Something seems “off” about Burns’ presentation vs what I know from dad’s experiences and other friends who were there. I can’t put my finger on it yet. Maybe Burns gets around to it in later episodes...
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Its Burn's hair. Trust me on this one.

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Walt said:
Clark,
For some references try Newworldencyclopedia.org and search for Royal Dutch Shell. About halfway down the page is a paragraph titled Vietnam War. It cites a book which is available on Amazon. A second cite would be a document called The Secret History how the Rockefellers found oil in Vietnam and went to war to get it. I do not if it is 100% factual but will give you a timeline. There is lots more stuff on point but you will appreciate it more if you do the research yourself.
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Walt, you have posted very little that is persuasive. Viable offshore drilling technology did not exist until the 50s so offshore oil wasn’t a motivation for the Japanese. Inland barges, piers, and artificial islands were the only methods to operate off of dry land during that timeframe. Exploration methods offshore were non-existent and any drilling was done to extend known onshore discoveries.

Hell, the economic motives to push technology for exploitation of oil in a new basin did not exist in the post-WW2 era. Supply far exceeded demand through the 80s and into the 90s. The US and allies saw artificial supply problems in the 70s but we had 6 $/bbl oil at times in the both the 80s and 90s. Examine the technical development and basin exploration/exploitation which followed the Arab oil embargo and perhaps you’ll understand how things work.

Saying oil was the cause of conflict in Vietnam makes a story to sell copy. Oil is a big boogeyman and all the sheeple like to be reminded how evil the oil industry is. There are other places with greater reserves and unsophisticated populations that were better targets during the times of Vietnam conflicts.
 
Everyone knows it was that Tonkin Gulf incident. :popcorn:

Just like Pearl Harber made us go fight the Germans.
 
There is a fair amount of oil development in the South China Sea right now. Vietnam has a real beef with China over oil drilling.

(at least that's the current excuse to hate the Chinese.)
 
Sac Arrow said:
(at least that's the current excuse to hate the Chinese.)
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That and China building up those atolls to build military runways on them. Yeah maybe that too. No offense towards you and your spouse 'Dog.
 
50 minutes into part 3. Need a break from the battlefield footage. Getting harder to watch.
 
So, I just finished the 3rd to last part, "Thing Fall Apart (Jan 1968 - July 1968)". I know I am a little behind, I know. I had never seen the footage of the VC teenager being killed in Saigon. That really shocked me to see that. I had no idea how bloody the Tet offensive was. I had never head of the other battle , Mini-Tet. I also only new of Saigon being under attack, not the other cities.

The series is pretty interesting and informative. I have learned new things I did not know about the War. I was born in August of 1971, so I never experienced it myself. Two more episodes to go, no spoilers!
 
Dav8or said:
Oh, I'm so gunna be that guy... We lose! There, I did it. Ha! ;)
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Not everybody sees it that way. Here's a Vietnamese doctor who screened the documentary:

"...I concluded that the United States was the winner because she had achieved the strategic goal of containing Communist China, even by bargaining away the lives of others, including her own servicemen and women."​

He cites the Pentagon Papers as proof.

dtuuri
 
dtuuri said:
Not everybody sees it that way. Here's a Vietnamese doctor who screened the documentary:

"...I concluded that the United States was the winner because she had achieved the strategic goal of containing Communist China, even by bargaining away the lives of others, including her own servicemen and women."​

He cites the Pentagon Papers as proof.

dtuuri
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That's an interesting comment, since China and Vietnam were not even remotely allied. He's also incorrect in that Ho Chi Minh did not have the goal of spreading International communism, rather, he viewed communism as a tool for rallying the north and reunifying the south.
 
flhrci said:
So, I just finished the 3rd to last part, "Thing Fall Apart (Jan 1968 - July 1968)". I know I am a little behind, I know. I had never seen the footage of the VC teenager being killed in Saigon. That really shocked me to see that.
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The general now runs a pizza shop in Fairfax, VA.
 
dtuuri said:
Not everybody sees it that way. Here's a Vietnamese doctor who screened the documentary:

"...I concluded that the United States was the winner because she had achieved the strategic goal of containing Communist China, even by bargaining away the lives of others, including her own servicemen and women."​

He cites the Pentagon Papers as proof.

dtuuri
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As current US politics illustrate, you can spin things any which way makes you feel better. The general world wide consensus is- we lost.
 
I grew up with the war as a backdrop and have seen a few documentaries about it but I still learned a lot from this series. My hat is off to you guys that served over there.
When I watch the first episode, I heard them say the French had 100,000 casualties before they pulled out. I can believe that wasn't warning enough to keep us out of there.
 
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